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Mona Pereth
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25 Sep 2021, 10:00 pm

dorkseid wrote:
Most people get their information from social media and don't even know that the official organizations you're talking about even exist.

I find it hard to believe that most people have never even heard of NOW. I can easily believe that most people -- or, at least, most Americans -- have never bothered to look at the NOW website, but not that they've never even heard of NOW. I'm pretty sure that most Americans over 30, at least, have at least heard of NOW.

If indeed it's true that most American adults, or even most American adults under 30, have never even heard of NOW, then they are even more ignorant than I thought. If indeed that's true, that's a huge problem.

dorkseid wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
dorkseid wrote:
How do you determine which message boards are "the better-run ones"?

Decide this yourself, based on your own experience. For example, I suggested that you check out Atheist Zone. If you try it and it turns out to be well-run in your opinion (or at least better than Atheist Republic), please recommend it to your fellow atheists.


So it is up to subjective opinion then? Nobody will agree on what forums are the one they think are the best-run. Any of us could be getting all kinds of misinformation from sites we believe to the "best-run" That doesn't mean squat.

But here's the key difference between message boards and social media: On a well-run message board, misinformation is much more likely to be effectively counteracted than on social media.

In the News and PPR sub-forums here on WP, for example, people cite sources, challenge each other's sources, and continue in a sustained debate where the weaker arguments on both sides get weeded out, at least for the most part.

On the other hand, on Twitter, person X disagrees with something person Y says, then gets mobbed by Y's followers, and then either blocks or gets blocked by Y. So, sustained and coherent debate just doesn't happen, and people can much more easily form bubbles where their misconceptions never get challenged.


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dorkseid
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26 Sep 2021, 8:52 am

simonthesly74 wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
I think you're completely missing my point. I'm not talking about what I think. I'm talking about the perceptions of the majority of the general public. Mainstream culture is informed by what is effortlessly accessible to the general public, not some official organization. That is just the reality. Just like the mainstream culture's perception of Marvel and DC are informed by whatever is in the movies not the comics, despite the comics being the source material. I scream until I'm blue in the face that the "Blip" was reversed within 24 hours, but in the movies it was 5 years and therefore in mainstream culture it was 5 years. When future anthropologists are studying popular fiction from the 21st Century it will forever have lasted 5 years, whether I like it or not. Most people get their information from social media and don't even know that the official organizations you're talking about even exist. They are the ones getting fed up with being told that their very existence is some kind of crime, and they are the ones making response videos to what feminist content that is present in the mainstream culture.
Quote:


[url=Source]https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/517628.Boys_Are_Stupid_Throw_Rocks_at_Them_[/url]
The majority of the general public (if we’re talking about America, anyways) is progressive and aware that modern feminism is not about female supremacy or male genocide or whatever. They realize that a few extremists who call themselves feminists (and which you’re only likely to find on the internet) do not represent the actual mainstream movement for gender equality, and this is because they haven’t fed misinformation by right-wing pundits. I come from a very blue city where it’s the norm for most men in addition to women to say they identify as feminists. Both my mom and dad, for example. Socially progressive Democrat voters, which again make up the majority of the US population, tend to support feminism, and you would not have so many men backing the movement if it actually was telling them that their very existence was a crime.

It’s conservatives by and large that have fallen into the delusion that the modern feminist movement is based on hating men. The relatively small amount of crazy misandrists you’ll find on the internet are propped up by right-wing pundits to fear-monger and further their agenda of suppressing the equality movement.



If the majority of Americans are progressive, then explain how someone like Donald Trump got elected President? This whole discussion started about anti-SJW Youtubers allegedly directing young men down the alt-right pipeline, and now you want to say that no such people exist?

And it is not just on the Internet. When my psychologically abusive ex-fiancé played the victim and spread lies about me abusing her and cheating on her, all her feminist friends just assumed that because I am a man she must be telling the truth and I must be lying. I knew a young woman in college who said that she doesn't even care who the abuser is, she will always side with women over men in any conflict regardless. I was told by a bunch of feminists that as a "privileged male" the only reason I was homeless is because I'm too lazy to get a job, even after I had thoroughly explained my disability.

Some years ago, a mob of feminists in Melbourne organized a campaign to harass and bully a mentally handicapped man because he asked someone for a high five on the tram. This is the kind of sh*t people are fed up with.

Quote:
Boys Are Stupid, Throw Rocks at Them!
by Todd Harris Goldman
3.89 · Rating details · 169 ratings · 33 reviews
Girls, here it is—everything you need to know about boys: 1. Boys come from the Stupid Factory. 2. Boys are pretty much smelly and useless. 3. It is possible to have fun with boys, however..... 4. If you decide to keep a boyfriend, he will need to be housebroken.

With a South Park-for-girls edgy freshness, artist and entrepreneur (David & Goliath clothing) Todd Harris Goldman updates the eternal battle of the sexes. And this time the girls win. Packaged in soft, puffy cover (so if you do keep a boyfriend around the house, he won't hurt himself too much when he tries to figure out what it is by putting it in his mouth), this bright, irreverent book is the perfect girlfriend gift .

No boys were hurt during the making of this book. (less)

Source



Hollywood_Guy
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26 Sep 2021, 3:45 pm

dorkseid wrote:
simonthesly74 wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
I think you're completely missing my point. I'm not talking about what I think. I'm talking about the perceptions of the majority of the general public. Mainstream culture is informed by what is effortlessly accessible to the general public, not some official organization. That is just the reality. Just like the mainstream culture's perception of Marvel and DC are informed by whatever is in the movies not the comics, despite the comics being the source material. I scream until I'm blue in the face that the "Blip" was reversed within 24 hours, but in the movies it was 5 years and therefore in mainstream culture it was 5 years. When future anthropologists are studying popular fiction from the 21st Century it will forever have lasted 5 years, whether I like it or not. Most people get their information from social media and don't even know that the official organizations you're talking about even exist. They are the ones getting fed up with being told that their very existence is some kind of crime, and they are the ones making response videos to what feminist content that is present in the mainstream culture.
Quote:


[url=Source]https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/517628.Boys_Are_Stupid_Throw_Rocks_at_Them_[/url]
The majority of the general public (if we’re talking about America, anyways) is progressive and aware that modern feminism is not about female supremacy or male genocide or whatever. They realize that a few extremists who call themselves feminists (and which you’re only likely to find on the internet) do not represent the actual mainstream movement for gender equality, and this is because they haven’t fed misinformation by right-wing pundits. I come from a very blue city where it’s the norm for most men in addition to women to say they identify as feminists. Both my mom and dad, for example. Socially progressive Democrat voters, which again make up the majority of the US population, tend to support feminism, and you would not have so many men backing the movement if it actually was telling them that their very existence was a crime.

It’s conservatives by and large that have fallen into the delusion that the modern feminist movement is based on hating men. The relatively small amount of crazy misandrists you’ll find on the internet are propped up by right-wing pundits to fear-monger and further their agenda of suppressing the equality movement.



If the majority of Americans are progressive, then explain how someone like Donald Trump got elected President? This whole discussion started about anti-SJW Youtubers allegedly directing young men down the alt-right pipeline, and now you want to say that no such people exist?

And it is not just on the Internet. When my psychologically abusive ex-fiancé played the victim and spread lies about me abusing her and cheating on her, all her feminist friends just assumed that because I am a man she must be telling the truth and I must be lying. I knew a young woman in college who said that she doesn't even care who the abuser is, she will always side with women over men in any conflict regardless. I was told by a bunch of feminists that as a "privileged male" the only reason I was homeless is because I'm too lazy to get a job, even after I had thoroughly explained my disability.

Some years ago, a mob of feminists in Melbourne organized a campaign to harass and bully a mentally handicapped man because he asked someone for a high five on the tram. This is the kind of sh*t people are fed up with.

Quote:
Boys Are Stupid, Throw Rocks at Them!
by Todd Harris Goldman
3.89 · Rating details · 169 ratings · 33 reviews
Girls, here it is—everything you need to know about boys: 1. Boys come from the Stupid Factory. 2. Boys are pretty much smelly and useless. 3. It is possible to have fun with boys, however..... 4. If you decide to keep a boyfriend, he will need to be housebroken.

With a South Park-for-girls edgy freshness, artist and entrepreneur (David & Goliath clothing) Todd Harris Goldman updates the eternal battle of the sexes. And this time the girls win. Packaged in soft, puffy cover (so if you do keep a boyfriend around the house, he won't hurt himself too much when he tries to figure out what it is by putting it in his mouth), this bright, irreverent book is the perfect girlfriend gift .

No boys were hurt during the making of this book. (less)

Source


And this is exactly why more people are gravitating to the alt-right or far-right. When people get angry and disenfranchised, maybe society should look closer and stop blaming the angry people, and examine that possibly they are the ones primarily at fault.



kraftiekortie
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26 Sep 2021, 3:54 pm

There is NO justification for somebody veering towards the Alt or Far Right.

Similar to veering towards the Far Left.



dorkseid
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26 Sep 2021, 6:35 pm

Hollywood_Guy wrote:
And this is exactly why more people are gravitating to the alt-right or far-right. When people get angry and disenfranchised, maybe society should look closer and stop blaming the angry people, and examine that possibly they are the ones primarily at fault.


It is the black and white fallacy. Thinking the answer to one extreme is the opposite extreme. It's what created both the regressive left and the far right. It's extremely stupid, and one of the reasons I've lost all faith in humanity.



simonthesly74
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26 Sep 2021, 7:51 pm

dorkseid wrote:
simonthesly74 wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
I think you're completely missing my point. I'm not talking about what I think. I'm talking about the perceptions of the majority of the general public. Mainstream culture is informed by what is effortlessly accessible to the general public, not some official organization. That is just the reality. Just like the mainstream culture's perception of Marvel and DC are informed by whatever is in the movies not the comics, despite the comics being the source material. I scream until I'm blue in the face that the "Blip" was reversed within 24 hours, but in the movies it was 5 years and therefore in mainstream culture it was 5 years. When future anthropologists are studying popular fiction from the 21st Century it will forever have lasted 5 years, whether I like it or not. Most people get their information from social media and don't even know that the official organizations you're talking about even exist. They are the ones getting fed up with being told that their very existence is some kind of crime, and they are the ones making response videos to what feminist content that is present in the mainstream culture.
Quote:


[url=Source]https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/517628.Boys_Are_Stupid_Throw_Rocks_at_Them_[/url]
The majority of the general public (if we’re talking about America, anyways) is progressive and aware that modern feminism is not about female supremacy or male genocide or whatever. They realize that a few extremists who call themselves feminists (and which you’re only likely to find on the internet) do not represent the actual mainstream movement for gender equality, and this is because they haven’t fed misinformation by right-wing pundits. I come from a very blue city where it’s the norm for most men in addition to women to say they identify as feminists. Both my mom and dad, for example. Socially progressive Democrat voters, which again make up the majority of the US population, tend to support feminism, and you would not have so many men backing the movement if it actually was telling them that their very existence was a crime.

It’s conservatives by and large that have fallen into the delusion that the modern feminist movement is based on hating men. The relatively small amount of crazy misandrists you’ll find on the internet are propped up by right-wing pundits to fear-monger and further their agenda of suppressing the equality movement.



If the majority of Americans are progressive, then explain how someone like Donald Trump got elected President? This whole discussion started about anti-SJW Youtubers allegedly directing young men down the alt-right pipeline, and now you want to say that no such people exist?

And it is not just on the Internet. When my psychologically abusive ex-fiancé played the victim and spread lies about me abusing her and cheating on her, all her feminist friends just assumed that because I am a man she must be telling the truth and I must be lying. I knew a young woman in college who said that she doesn't even care who the abuser is, she will always side with women over men in any conflict regardless. I was told by a bunch of feminists that as a "privileged male" the only reason I was homeless is because I'm too lazy to get a job, even after I had thoroughly explained my disability.

Some years ago, a mob of feminists in Melbourne organized a campaign to harass and bully a mentally handicapped man because he asked someone for a high five on the tram. This is the kind of sh*t people are fed up with.

Quote:
Boys Are Stupid, Throw Rocks at Them!
by Todd Harris Goldman
3.89 · Rating details · 169 ratings · 33 reviews
Girls, here it is—everything you need to know about boys: 1. Boys come from the Stupid Factory. 2. Boys are pretty much smelly and useless. 3. It is possible to have fun with boys, however..... 4. If you decide to keep a boyfriend, he will need to be housebroken.

With a South Park-for-girls edgy freshness, artist and entrepreneur (David & Goliath clothing) Todd Harris Goldman updates the eternal battle of the sexes. And this time the girls win. Packaged in soft, puffy cover (so if you do keep a boyfriend around the house, he won't hurt himself too much when he tries to figure out what it is by putting it in his mouth), this bright, irreverent book is the perfect girlfriend gift .

No boys were hurt during the making of this book. (less)

Source


When I said the majority, I didn’t mean they outnumbered Republican voters by a significant amount. But regardless, there are more people who vote blue than red in America.

Your ex-fiancée sounds horrible, but I would also assume that her friends knew her better than they knew you and that’s why they sided with her. If she was psychologically abusive, than she’s probably pretty good at manipulating people which would have made it all the easier to convince her friends that she was the victim.

It was wrong for those women to dismiss you as a “privileged male”. I think this speaks to the need for the growing autism awareness/acceptance movement, if even otherwise progressive people won’t listen to you about that.

Whoever those “feminists” in Melbourne were, they sound like pricks. But like I said, real feminist organizations dedicated to making the world a more equal place tend not to let bullies in like that. Also, I would challenge you to name someone with the attitude of those women that’s actually in mainstream progressive politics.



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26 Sep 2021, 8:17 pm

dorkseid wrote:
If the majority of Americans are progressive, then explain how someone like Donald Trump got elected President?

Because the Electoral College gives a disproportionate (in terms of population) amount of votes to sparsely populated rural states, which tend to lean Republican. Even in 2016, Trump lost the popular vote even though he won the Electoral College vote.

dorkseid wrote:
This whole discussion started about anti-SJW Youtubers allegedly directing young men down the alt-right pipeline, and now you want to say that no such people exist?

Of course they exist -- and are disproportionately influential -- even though they are not the majority.

dorkseid wrote:
And it is not just on the Internet. When my psychologically abusive ex-fiancé played the victim and spread lies about me abusing her and cheating on her, all her feminist friends just assumed that because I am a man she must be telling the truth and I must be lying. I knew a young woman in college who said that she doesn't even care who the abuser is, she will always side with women over men in any conflict regardless.

Unfortunately, ever since the late 1960's at least, there have always been "radical feminists" with this attitude, although they are not the mainstream of feminism.

dorkseid wrote:
I was told by a bunch of feminists that as a "privileged male" the only reason I was homeless is because I'm too lazy to get a job, even after I had thoroughly explained my disability.

Unfortunately, the attitude that the only reason anyone could possibly be homeless is that they are "too lazy to get a job" is rampant throughout American society -- more so on the right than on the left -- although, alas, it infects some otherwise left-leaning people as well. Sometimes it seems as if anyone who has even the slightest bit of empathy for homeless people at all is ipso facto deemed to be an extreme leftist.


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27 Sep 2021, 7:56 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
Unfortunately, the attitude that the only reason anyone could possibly be homeless is that they are "too lazy to get a job" is rampant throughout American society -- more so on the right than on the left -- although, alas, it infects some otherwise left-leaning people as well. Sometimes it seems as if anyone who has even the slightest bit of empathy for homeless people at all is ipso facto deemed to be an extreme leftist.


It's equally as abundant on the left, as long as the person in question happens to be a "privileged" white male.



AliceCooper
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30 Sep 2021, 8:07 am

dorkseid wrote:
I recently joined the Atheist Republic forum. I haven't been there a whole week yet. But all it took was one mention that I'm autistic for a whole thread to devolve into a bunch of ablist bigotry. And I don't want to judge an entire community by the conduct of a handful of members. But so far nobody has spoken up to counter all the rampant ablism.


Try this ayn rand fansite. I don't think you'd have the problems you had on there! Objectivism Online Forum! Here's the link!


https://forum.objectivismonline.com/


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10 Oct 2021, 6:26 pm

Thanks. But I am really not a fan of Rand or Objectivism, and I do not imagine I'd get along well with people who are.



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17 Oct 2021, 10:15 am

dorkseid wrote:
Thanks. But I am really not a fan of Rand or Objectivism, and I do not imagine I'd get along well with people who are.



I understand!


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24 Oct 2021, 7:23 pm

Could anybody tell me exactly how the far-right have a disproportionate voice? If anything, they are more of a farce because they are not the ones that are working as staff in the large corporations, or deciding what is going to be done in sports, music, TV and film. Never mind the far-right, the moderate right too are mostly the ones today that are being hounded for comments on social media. But where is the right?

We really are living on different planets now.