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funeralxempire
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10 Oct 2021, 5:15 pm

smudge wrote:
The rules were clarified in a very militant way. It was basically saying anyone could be racist if they were accused of it. Like League Girl said.


You seem to have missed the point she was making which is that the fears of omg everyone's gonna get called racist over nothing were never actually realistic and were just used to fear monger.


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smudge
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10 Oct 2021, 5:30 pm

I've missed the point? Fine, I've re-read what she's said and I missed that part. You're the one who said this though:

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The fragility was strong in some and the result was the community was less well-equipped to serve non-white people with autism just like how misogyny, homophobia and transphobia sometimes have resulted in this site feeling less than fully welcome here. And then the people defending it use the lack of participation as proof that the issue doesn't matter instead of understanding that it's another symptom of the problem, not evidence that the problem doesn't exist.

It's a shame the community lost members but it's a positive that clarification was made so that the site can at least have criticisms voiced and be learned from instead of having those criticisms treated like insults that can't be voiced.


I had tried not to ask, "What are you on?"...but you implied those who left the site were wrong and decided to call them "fragile" instead of acknowledging they made a choice to leave perhaps due to their own morals. What Alex said to was blatantly inappropriate and I can't believe you and lots of people here can't see something so blatantly obvious.


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smudge
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10 Oct 2021, 5:36 pm

And some of those people who had left WERE fragile.


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funeralxempire
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10 Oct 2021, 5:39 pm

smudge wrote:
I've missed the point? Fine, I've re-read what she's said and I missed that part. You're the one who said this though:

Quote:
The fragility was strong in some and the result was the community was less well-equipped to serve non-white people with autism just like how misogyny, homophobia and transphobia sometimes have resulted in this site feeling less than fully welcome here. And then the people defending it use the lack of participation as proof that the issue doesn't matter instead of understanding that it's another symptom of the problem, not evidence that the problem doesn't exist.

It's a shame the community lost members but it's a positive that clarification was made so that the site can at least have criticisms voiced and be learned from instead of having those criticisms treated like insults that can't be voiced.


I had tried not to ask, "What are you on?"...but you implied those who left the site were wrong and decided to call them "fragile" instead of acknowledging they made a choice to leave perhaps due to their own morals. What Alex said to was blatantly inappropriate and I can't believe you and lots of people here can't see something so blatantly obvious.


I lobbied for the change and supported it. I had repeatedly had conflict with posters who would rely on calling out racism being interpreted as a personal insult for years and the situation was about to boil over because of how aggressively one of those posters was trying to have me banned.

Thank Sly for that change because he's the one who made it possible.


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theprisoner
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10 Oct 2021, 5:56 pm

smudge wrote:
And some of those people who had left WERE fragile.

I left but then returned. But not because I'm fragile. Because i was suspended. I guess i have a big mouth. And it rubbed some people the wrong way. hey, Shrugs shoulders. Water under the bridge.


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funeralxempire
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10 Oct 2021, 6:07 pm

It's unfortunate that some posters left because they didn't think they could abide by the rules or because they wanted other people's speech to be stifled so they wouldn't have to hear valid criticisms but no one's preventing those people from returning when the issue they claimed to be concerned about never came to pass.

That problem never actually occurred, so that problem doesn't seem relevant to the thinking among those who haven't returned since then. I'm not sure what it is that keeps them away but I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that the issue is not wanting to hear criticism of their views without being able to claim that criticism is personally insulting.

There was a problem with some posters claiming any accusation of racism was insulting no matter how fair the accusation might be. That policy was changed and the problem no longer exists. It's not ideal to exclude people with ASD who also hold white nationalist viewpoints but the alternative is to allow them and watch as they drive out everyone who disagrees with them.


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simonthesly74
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10 Oct 2021, 7:58 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
It's been better recently than it was initially.

simonthesly74 wrote:
I’m just going to go ahead and say it: conservatives are far more prevalent than I would’ve expected for an autism forum. It’s not at all hard to find people on WP bitching about SJWs, political correctness, and so on. But still, there are plenty of people here who are nice and supportive. So overall, I feel welcome.


That concern has actually improved after Alex clarified some of the rules last summer. Several anti-SJW types left because it was clarified that you can call someone espousing racism racist.

Historically the site has been less mindful of how allowing posters to espouse bigotry might make people within those communities feel unwelcome on the site. I don't believe this was allowed with the intention of having that impact but it has resulted in long-term/regular posters leaving.

That’s at least encouraging to hear.



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10 Oct 2021, 11:07 pm

Since we are having a retrospective on Alex's "clarification" of the rules I will put in my view of it then and now.

I was definitely one of those "freaking out" when that rule came down. I had serious thoughts about leaving but said to myself, sleep on it, do not react on pure emotion. After giving it some thought I decided to stay based on faith in the membership here and the Autistic community in general. My faith was reinforced by the conversation that ensued. League Girl mentioned fear of casual accusations of racism that did not come to pass. I am not sure that would not have happened to some degree without that thread. Alex allowed dissent some of it quite pointed and personal towards him and was very engaged in that thread. That was important. While no consensus emerged about the rule itself a consensus emerged that casual labeling of people as racist is both wrong and will not be accepted. That conversation reinforced my faith in the membership here. In the over a year since the rule was announced not only has labeling of people as racist not become casual, it is nonexistent, at least in the threads I look at.

I still disagree with the rule for the same reasons I said then. I view it today as an unnecessary loophole, something that has the potential of blowing up. It will probably happen at some point. While there will be a lot of angst this mod team will probably put out the fire.

Like with most other things unlimited freedom of expression is not allowed here, but WP is not an example of cancel culture. On this pro neurodiversity movement site, we have a pro-cure member. We have Q-Anon member here, membership with that group would get that member kicked off most sites. I say stuff about Black Lives Matter, Critical Race Theory that I would have to think twice about saying in a lot of other spaces. On WP I say them without worrying about being kicked off.

I also really do not like the name of this site. What it comes down to the good far outweighs the bad here


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10 Oct 2021, 11:19 pm

Now back on topic, summarizing what I said in my 8th-anniversary post. This place was instrumental in helping me understand myself and my autism in the wake of my diagnosis. During my time of serious physical distress, this place was an important brain stimulator.

In the last few weeks I have been told that my Autism news posts have proven useful. Glad to be of help. Becoming WP's unofficial news gatherer was not something planned it just happened.


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11 Oct 2021, 4:16 pm

I'm adding a response describing the difficulties in understanding High Functioning Autism (HFA); difficulties also reflected here on WP (LINK).

LINK: (Short Read): viewtopic.php?f=3&t=400344&p=8880056#p8880056



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11 Oct 2021, 5:33 pm

I've learned a lot here, and I've found it useful to crystallise out my thoughts about ASD by making posts about it. It's the only place I have where I don't have to feel apprehensive about being construed as using ASD as a lame excuse for my behaviour. Not that I think my behaviour is bad, just that in real life I might duck out of some social expectations and I'm always very reluctant to "play the Aspie card" because I half expect NTs to think I'm being dishonest. But here I can at least say that I didn't go to Violet's funeral or whatever, and I can say why I didn't, without fear of many people thinking "rubbish, he didn't do it because he's decided to be a snowflake." And I've found a lot of new ideas by reading what others have to say.

On the downside, it's not always as supportive as I'd like, and I get annoyed when people start personal attacks on each other (though I probably expect too much of people, and I'm quite capable of defending myself if anybody has a go at me, so I don't worry about that for myself, I just don't like to see stuff that seems likely to undermine anybody's self-confidence).

There are times when there are no new topics that interest me (though a lot of them often do), and I don't get as much feedback as I'd like when I comment or create a topic of my own (though just like when I'm performing music, if the audience doesn't strongly admire and appreciate my work then I don't see it as their fault).

Also on the downside is those horrible Capcha puzzles that stop me from doing multiple quotes and a few other sophisticated things. It's as if whoever is running the place either doesn't care about it or can't be bothered to explain why nothing can be done. I've got nothing personal against Alex, but I don't particularly admire what little of his stuff I've seen. If he's the one who provides the service by which we can all talk here, I'm grateful to him for that at least. I like it that the moderation is fairly light-touch and tolerant. I'm in another group (not an ASD group, it's to do with a computer program) where the mods are forever jumping on people for mentioning any rival piece of software, even when their own program can't do what's required and they have no plans to change that fact. They're often very helpful and knowledgeable, but it's as if it's gone to their heads and they see themselves as somehow better than the regular users, and they don't seem to take much care about offending people, and won't budge if a user makes reasonable points against what they've said. But round here it's a lot better in those respects.

Somebody mentioned Conservative views and the berating of "political correctness" here. Personally I strongly dislike most right-wing ideology and I've yet to see any coherent arguments in favour of it anywhere, but I have some sympathy for folks who feel understandably exasperated when political correctness becomes cumbersome to people who mean no harm by the way they express themselves and genuinely don't know the reason - if there even is a good reason - why they can't talk about things the way they see them without being called out as if they were some kind of fascist. I've often wished more people everywhere would just stay calm and objective, and retain an interest in thinking with people to arrive at the truth rather than getting all polemical, but I guess some subjects - notably religion and politics - are inherently thorny and many humans can't bear to see rational arguments that make our cherished beliefs look wrong.

Overall, I like WP.



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11 Oct 2021, 7:37 pm

HeroOfHyrule wrote:
I don't really post as often as I used to because of the political posts + the fact I can't relate to half the people here. I've kind of slowly been phasing out WP and other ASD forums for other forms of social media. As more people close to my age leave + make accounts but don't stick around, the more boring these forums get to me.


I don't often see your age group represented on here- it would make it more boring.
It is nice to have your participation though, especially in the game section. Tug of War definitely benefits :)



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11 Oct 2021, 7:44 pm

Shellbelle wrote:
I don't often see your age group represented on here- it would make it more boring.
It is nice to have your participation though, especially in the game section. Tug of War definitely benefits :)

Oh, thank you! I really enjoy playing Tug of War with you and other people. :D


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I use he/him pronouns.

I like playing video games, watching cartoons and anime, reading, and cooking.

I also enjoy learning + cataloguing information about different types of animals and plants.

Empathy Quotient: 34/80
Systemizing Quotient: 104/150
Friendship Quotient: 56/140
Autism Quotient: 36/80

RAADS-R: 169

CAT-Q: 153
Compensation: 57
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Your broader autism cluster (Aspie) score: 144 of 200.
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 63 of 200.
You are very likely on the broader autism cluster (Aspie).


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12 Oct 2021, 3:14 pm

I post here sporadically, mainly when I have stressful work on and I ought to be doing that instead.

Weirdly, my experience of WP is very similar to my experience of the real world - a general sense that I don't fit in here and my input isn't really wanted or is somehow inappropriate. I tend to assume most people would be happier if I wasn't here. Or at least wouldn't notice if I wasn't.

But like in the real world I try very hard to engage with people and respond to their posts in thoughtful and detailed ways. It seems that more often than not, people don't respond to me at all. Occasionally they do, for which I'm grateful, but even then I often I feel like I've been misunderstood.

I'm sure all this says more about my own self-esteem than anything else. No one has been outwardly hostile or anything.



funeralxempire
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12 Oct 2021, 3:54 pm

DuckHairback wrote:
I post here sporadically, mainly when I have stressful work on and I ought to be doing that instead.

Weirdly, my experience of WP is very similar to my experience of the real world - a general sense that I don't fit in here and my input isn't really wanted or is somehow inappropriate. I tend to assume most people would be happier if I wasn't here. Or at least wouldn't notice if I wasn't.

But like in the real world I try very hard to engage with people and respond to their posts in thoughtful and detailed ways. It seems that more often than not, people don't respond to me at all. Occasionally they do, for which I'm grateful, but even then I often I feel like I've been misunderstood.

I'm sure all this says more about my own self-esteem than anything else. No one has been outwardly hostile or anything.


I think a lot of us feel that way.
I think it's something a lot of us have internalized as being normal.


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HeroOfHyrule
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12 Oct 2021, 3:57 pm

DuckHairback wrote:
I post here sporadically, mainly when I have stressful work on and I ought to be doing that instead.

Weirdly, my experience of WP is very similar to my experience of the real world - a general sense that I don't fit in here and my input isn't really wanted or is somehow inappropriate. I tend to assume most people would be happier if I wasn't here. Or at least wouldn't notice if I wasn't.

But like in the real world I try very hard to engage with people and respond to their posts in thoughtful and detailed ways. It seems that more often than not, people don't respond to me at all. Occasionally they do, for which I'm grateful, but even then I often I feel like I've been misunderstood.

I'm sure all this says more about my own self-esteem than anything else. No one has been outwardly hostile or anything.

Even if I don't respond to your posts often, I do enjoy reading them and think your input is very valuable! I'm honestly too shy to respond to most people (in non-game threads) since I don't interact with them on here that much, so there's only a few people I'm actually comfortable talking to. I wonder if a lot of people feel that way.


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I use he/him pronouns.

I like playing video games, watching cartoons and anime, reading, and cooking.

I also enjoy learning + cataloguing information about different types of animals and plants.

Empathy Quotient: 34/80
Systemizing Quotient: 104/150
Friendship Quotient: 56/140
Autism Quotient: 36/80

RAADS-R: 169

CAT-Q: 153
Compensation: 57
Masking: 47
Assimilation: 49

Your broader autism cluster (Aspie) score: 144 of 200.
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 63 of 200.
You are very likely on the broader autism cluster (Aspie).