Israel to trial CBD as treatment for autism

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DanielW
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11 Aug 2022, 10:16 am

naturalplastic wrote:
DanielW wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
DanielW wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
As far as I know, CBD is derived from the marijuana plant, which would make it more "natural" than Ibuprofen.


Not really, Ibuprofen is made from Propionic Acid (which is sourced from fermented semi-digested food from the digestive tracts of large mammals


That's not the only ingredient, though.
.

Its the active ingredient though. Just like aspirin is salicylic acid. In fact that's. how it was discovered. They were looking for an alternative to aspirin. And its cheaper to produce, since its a by-product of meat production and would otherwise be a waste product.

You mean Motrin is made from 'cud' ...the half digested grass inside of butchered hoofed livestock?

Yes, if it comes from cows, if its sourced from other animals? - well I guess you'd call it stool.



naturalplastic
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11 Aug 2022, 10:23 am

"Stool" is stuff that just comes out, and doesnt go back in. Carnivores, and humans, produce 'stool', or 'manure', or whatever ya wanna call it.

But grass grazing hoofed mammals have a complex system of digesting tough grass. It goes in to the stomach, then goes back out to the mouth to be chewed again ( they 'chew their cud") and it goes back to the stomach again to be broken down more, and other stuff I forget from high school biology. Only after all of that does the animal finnally get use the nutrition from the grass, and then only after THAT does it finally becomes manure.

Not quite the same thing.



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11 Aug 2022, 10:23 am

DanielW wrote:
Nades wrote:
I'm fairness, treating the outward appearance of autism might make peers more likely to accept such an autistic into their social circle which might have long term benefits to an autistic.

Acting like the odd one out means people see you as different. More often than not they treat different people...well.. differently.


How is that fair to the autistic person? Is drugging them their entire life a fair thing to do? Its like asking an "ugly" person to wear a bag over their head when they might be seen,


A lot of people are drugged for life for their own long term benefit. Stuff like this is more appropriate to consent too as an adult but honestly, visible autisitc traits also cause a lot of damage to children who are commonly shunned by their peers.

If it results in more surpressed signs of autism it might still benefit a child assuming those signs are causing peers to ostracize them.



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11 Aug 2022, 10:26 am

naturalplastic wrote:
"Stool" is stuff that just comes out, and doesnt go back in. Carnivores, and humans, produce 'stool', or 'manure', or whatever ya wanna call it.

But grass grazing hoofed mammals have a complex system of digesting tough grass. It goes in to the stomach, then goes back out to the mouth to be chewed again ( they 'chew their cud") and it goes back to the stomach again to be broken down more, and other stuff I forget from high school biology. Only after all of that does the animal finnally get use the nutrition from the grass, and then only after THAT does it finally becomes manure.

Not quite the same thing.

whatever you want to call it, its still fermented from the contents of the intestinal tract. Its not exclusive to cows or other ruminants. you could derive it from any mammal - including humans.



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11 Aug 2022, 10:29 am

DanielW wrote:
Nades wrote:
I'm fairness, treating the outward appearance of autism might make peers more likely to accept such an autistic into their social circle which might have long term benefits to an autistic.

Acting like the odd one out means people see you as different. More often than not they treat different people...well.. differently.


How is that fair to the autistic person? Is drugging them their entire life a fair thing to do? Its like asking an "ugly" person to wear a bag over their head when they might be seen,


Surely it would be better to educate people to see differences as natural and be more accepting. There is no way all humans are going to be identical and god help us if we were! Imagine how boring that would be. Humans are naturally individuals and there is a vast range of differences.

I don't mean 'differences' as in things that make people's lives a misery like illnesses. But 'differences' as in appearance, ways of speaking and using language, getting enthusiastic about things that other people find boring etc.


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11 Aug 2022, 10:32 am

Nades wrote:
DanielW wrote:
Nades wrote:
I'm fairness, treating the outward appearance of autism might make peers more likely to accept such an autistic into their social circle which might have long term benefits to an autistic.

Acting like the odd one out means people see you as different. More often than not they treat different people...well.. differently.


How is that fair to the autistic person? Is drugging them their entire life a fair thing to do? Its like asking an "ugly" person to wear a bag over their head when they might be seen,


A lot of people are drugged for life for their own long term benefit. Stuff like this is more appropriate to consent too as an adult but honestly, visible autisitc traits also cause a lot of damage to children who are commonly shunned by their peers.

If it results in more surpressed signs of autism it might still benefit a child assuming those signs are causing peers to ostracize them.


That means that people with autism are a danger to others? That's the only other group of people who are forcibly medicated that I know of.



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11 Aug 2022, 10:36 am

DanielW wrote:
Nades wrote:
DanielW wrote:
Nades wrote:
I'm fairness, treating the outward appearance of autism might make peers more likely to accept such an autistic into their social circle which might have long term benefits to an autistic.

Acting like the odd one out means people see you as different. More often than not they treat different people...well.. differently.


How is that fair to the autistic person? Is drugging them their entire life a fair thing to do? Its like asking an "ugly" person to wear a bag over their head when they might be seen,


A lot of people are drugged for life for their own long term benefit. Stuff like this is more appropriate to consent too as an adult but honestly, visible autisitc traits also cause a lot of damage to children who are commonly shunned by their peers.

If it results in more surpressed signs of autism it might still benefit a child assuming those signs are causing peers to ostracize them.


That means that people with autism are a danger to others? That's the only other group of people who are forcibly medicated that I know of.


In hindsight, I would have force fed my past childhood self any drug that would have taken the edges off my visible symptoms.

On the other hand, CBD is known to be harmless. Also, without such testing literally no drugs can ever possibly be researched and developed for kids.

It's pushing my limits on what I think is acceptable, but considering the drug is known to be safe and how debilitating autism symptoms can be, I'm OK with it.



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11 Aug 2022, 10:37 am

KitLily wrote:
DanielW wrote:
Nades wrote:
I'm fairness, treating the outward appearance of autism might make peers more likely to accept such an autistic into their social circle which might have long term benefits to an autistic.

Acting like the odd one out means people see you as different. More often than not they treat different people...well.. differently.


How is that fair to the autistic person? Is drugging them their entire life a fair thing to do? Its like asking an "ugly" person to wear a bag over their head when they might be seen,


Surely it would be better to educate people to see differences as natural and be more accepting. There is no way all humans are going to be identical and god help us if we were! Imagine how boring that would be. Humans are naturally individuals and there is a vast range of differences.

I don't mean 'differences' as in things that make people's lives a misery like illnesses. But 'differences' as in appearance, ways of speaking and using language, getting enthusiastic about things that other people find boring etc.


This will sadly never happen as much as I would like it to be the case. There are some autisitcs that even I cringe at and actively avoided because they behaved so bizarrely in public.



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11 Aug 2022, 10:58 am

^^^^ UGH…! ^^^^^. I need a aspirin .


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11 Aug 2022, 11:10 am

Jakki wrote:
^^^^ UGH…! ^^^^^. I need a aspirin .


Just being realistic about how autisitcs want to be treated and how they will be treated by society.

It's naïve to assume otherwise and we just have to roll with it. I don't make the rules sadly despite wanting to almost daily.



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11 Aug 2022, 12:56 pm

Nades wrote:
Jakki wrote:
^^^^ UGH…! ^^^^^. I need a aspirin .


Just being realistic about how autisitcs want to be treated and how they will be treated by society.

It's naïve to assume otherwise and we just have to roll with it. I don't make the rules sadly despite wanting to almost daily.


Based on this , think I need to get much better at masking …… :(


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11 Aug 2022, 1:16 pm

DanielW wrote:
Nades wrote:
DanielW wrote:
Nades wrote:
I'm fairness, treating the outward appearance of autism might make peers more likely to accept such an autistic into their social circle which might have long term benefits to an autistic.

Acting like the odd one out means people see you as different. More often than not they treat different people...well.. differently.


How is that fair to the autistic person? Is drugging them their entire life a fair thing to do? Its like asking an "ugly" person to wear a bag over their head when they might be seen,


A lot of people are drugged for life for their own long term benefit. Stuff like this is more appropriate to consent too as an adult but honestly, visible autisitc traits also cause a lot of damage to children who are commonly shunned by their peers.

If it results in more surpressed signs of autism it might still benefit a child assuming those signs are causing peers to ostracize them.


That means that people with autism are a danger to others? That's the only other group of people who are forcibly
medicated that I know of.


Who mentioned forced? Would you insist that people who medicate for ADHD are forced, considering that many of us are children who are/were not yet entitled to make that decision for themselves?


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11 Aug 2022, 1:19 pm

DanielW wrote:
Nades wrote:
I'm fairness, treating the outward appearance of autism might make peers more likely to accept such an autistic into their social circle which might have long term benefits to an autistic.

Acting like the odd one out means people see you as different. More often than not they treat different people...well.. differently.


How is that fair to the autistic person? Is drugging them their entire life a fair thing to do? Its like asking an "ugly" person to wear a bag over their head when they might be seen,

Many people make up voluntarily when they need to deal with important occasions.


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11 Aug 2022, 1:23 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
DanielW wrote:
Nades wrote:
DanielW wrote:
Nades wrote:
I'm fairness, treating the outward appearance of autism might make peers more likely to accept such an autistic into their social circle which might have long term benefits to an autistic.

Acting like the odd one out means people see you as different. More often than not they treat different people...well.. differently.


How is that fair to the autistic person? Is drugging them their entire life a fair thing to do? Its like asking an "ugly" person to wear a bag over their head when they might be seen,


A lot of people are drugged for life for their own long term benefit. Stuff like this is more appropriate to consent too as an adult but honestly, visible autisitc traits also cause a lot of damage to children who are commonly shunned by their peers.

If it results in more surpressed signs of autism it might still benefit a child assuming those signs are causing peers to ostracize them.


That means that people with autism are a danger to others? That's the only other group of people who are forcibly
medicated that I know of.


Who mentioned forced? Would you insist that people who medicate for ADHD are forced, considering that many of us are children who are/were not yet entitled to make that decision for themselves?


By nature of parental guardianship, all kids are given meds without consent anyway. Meds have been given for many childhood disorders for decades with little in the way of protest. I don't see why autism is an exception. ADHD like you said is a good example of that.

I also respect Israel medicine wise. They're at the forefront of medical research and the drug itself (CBD) is well known to be very safe and often therapeutic. If it was some experimental drug with no track record then it would be a considerable human rights breach bit it's far from it.



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11 Aug 2022, 1:53 pm

Its forced when developing brains that have been kept in a drugged stupor while that are still developing can no longer give consent when they are finally old enough to do so.

I'm not going to discuss the political issue of the government being the sole arbiter of what is best for those who cannot consent. As for the ability of autism parents to know what's best for these children? Well, there are too many who become so desperate for a "cure" that they are force feeding them bleach and subjecting them to what can amount to torture.

My issue isn't with CBD, my issue is the history of treating the outward signs and behaviors they decide are embarrassing, with yes, what amounts to a lifetime of sedation. What about the hyperactive kids with heart disease from being force to take stimulants on the long term basis, so they sit quietly at school? Is that fair as long as they don't fidget and cause others discomfort?



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11 Aug 2022, 2:04 pm

DanielW wrote:

Its forced when developing brains that have been kept in a drugged stupor while that are still developing can no longer give consent when they are finally old enough to do so.

I'm not going to discuss the political issue of the government being the sole arbiter of what is best for those who cannot consent. As for the ability of autism parents to know what's best for these children? Well, there are too many who become so desperate for a "cure" that they are force feeding them bleach and subjecting them to what can amount to torture.

My issue isn't with CBD, my issue is the history of treating the outward signs and behaviors they decide are embarrassing, with yes, what amounts to a lifetime of sedation. What about the hyperactive kids with heart disease from being force to take stimulants on the long term basis, so they sit quietly at school?


Drugs that turn children's brains into white mush haven't been a thing for a long time now.

The problem is that autism is becoming a identity in itself. It's getting to the point where any and all research in ways to mitigate against autism symptoms are opposed due to an attack on "autistic identity"

I dislike autism and any identity that comes with it. I think autism is a ruthless disorder that I would gladly see the back of. As a child it caused me grief and I would have jumped at the chance to have some sort of drug to mitigate against it.

Many people with autism want just one thing. To fit in and be accepted. I'm all for anything that helps make it a reality.

I just find it annoying with society deciding on what's a good or bad autistic and an increasing number of autistics deciding to box other autistics in to their self made identity and being judged accordingly with how well they conform and mash into said box.