Do you get "projected threats" from others?

Page 1 of 2 [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Jayo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Jan 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,159

03 Dec 2022, 9:27 pm

By projected threats, I mean a threat that the speaker isn't going to carry out but rather some nameless entity or group will.
E.G. "If you keep behaving like that, the others will take you aside and beat the sh*t out of you"
or "If you keep making those mistakes, nobody will tell you, they'll just pretend you don't exist"
or "You need to be more aware of how you come across; if you make those insensitive comments to the wrong person you'll find yourself out of a job"...
etc, etc...

I got these plenty of times, but the thing I found soooo insulting and patronizing about it was, I WAS ALREADY 100% AWARE OF THE CONSEQUENCES OF THIS AND THAT!! !

I JUST DIDN'T AUTOMATICALLY KNOW WHEN I MANIFESTED SAID BEHAVIOURS!! :evil: (or was about to)

I really think this is an area where NTs and people on the spectrum are the same: we are all aware that committing faux pas won't go unpunished in some way - be it inappropriate verbal or non-verbal responses - the difference is in intent and awareness. Which, for us, is diminished and must be raised to a more conscious level (masking).

I think a lot of the patronizing response stems from what psychologists call the FAE, or fundamental attribution error.



Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 57,205
Location: Stendec

03 Dec 2022, 10:11 pm

They are not “Projected Threats”. They are warnings that your actions may have serious consequences.

They are much like the warnings we receive from the moderators of this website regarding our posts.


_________________
 
• Veritas Illuminata • Semper Illuminans • Custodiamus Veritas •
• Et Serviunt Qui Non Videntur •


DanielW
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jan 2019
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,031
Location: PNW USA

03 Dec 2022, 10:17 pm

Those aren't threats - they are warnings...and everyone gets them NT or ND. It doesn't really matter which. The key difference is how we choose to respond or not respond to them. That is up to the individual.



temp1234
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 9 Apr 2022
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,859

03 Dec 2022, 11:02 pm

Jayo wrote:
By projected threats, I mean a threat that the speaker isn't going to carry out but rather some nameless entity or group will.
E.G. "If you keep behaving like that, the others will take you aside and beat the sh*t out of you"
or "If you keep making those mistakes, nobody will tell you, they'll just pretend you don't exist"
or "You need to be more aware of how you come across; if you make those insensitive comments to the wrong person you'll find yourself out of a job"...
etc, etc...

I got these plenty of times, but the thing I found soooo insulting and patronizing about it was, I WAS ALREADY 100% AWARE OF THE CONSEQUENCES OF THIS AND THAT!! !

I JUST DIDN'T AUTOMATICALLY KNOW WHEN I MANIFESTED SAID BEHAVIOURS!! :evil: (or was about to)

I really think this is an area where NTs and people on the spectrum are the same: we are all aware that committing faux pas won't go unpunished in some way - be it inappropriate verbal or non-verbal responses - the difference is in intent and awareness. Which, for us, is diminished and must be raised to a more conscious level (masking).

I think a lot of the patronizing response stems from what psychologists call the FAE, or fundamental attribution error.
It must be to do with us autistic people being less socially aware. Without intending to offend, we might be breaking some common rules, which we are all supposed to learn naturally. That's a typical trait of autism. Also, people play politics and are more strict on us autistic people who are at the bottom of the social hierarchy.

I don't even get that threat/warning. People don't even consider me worth talking to. They often just start treating me as an outcast and pretend I don't exist.



naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 68
Gender: Male
Posts: 30,784
Location: temperate zone

04 Dec 2022, 6:06 am

Jayo wrote:
By projected threats, I mean a threat that the speaker isn't going to carry out but rather some nameless entity or group will.
E.G. "If you keep behaving like that, the others will take you aside and beat the sh*t out of you"
or "If you keep making those mistakes, nobody will tell you, they'll just pretend you don't exist"
or "You need to be more aware of how you come across; if you make those insensitive comments to the wrong person you'll find yourself out of a job"...
etc, etc...

I got these plenty of times, but the thing I found soooo insulting and patronizing about it was, I WAS ALREADY 100% AWARE OF THE CONSEQUENCES OF THIS AND THAT!! !

I JUST DIDN'T AUTOMATICALLY KNOW WHEN I MANIFESTED SAID BEHAVIOURS!! :evil: (or was about to)

I really think this is an area where NTs and people on the spectrum are the same: we are all aware that committing faux pas won't go unpunished in some way - be it inappropriate verbal or non-verbal responses - the difference is in intent and awareness. Which, for us, is diminished and must be raised to a more conscious level (masking).

I think a lot of the patronizing response stems from what psychologists call the FAE, or fundamental attribution error.


You ought to reread what you wrote. You would see how self-contradictory it is.

Youre saying that "folks talk to me like I am idiot just because I act, and talk, like an idiot".

Then you complain that "I know better, but...I act like an idiot anyway" WTF? If that were true then that would be all the MORE reason folks should criticize you, not less reason to. If you were so mentally impaired that you didnt know any better then folks would have reason to accommodate that. But you claim to be 100 percent aware...but you do the same offending behavior anyway. So what are you complaining about? If youre not an idiot but choose to act idiotic anyway then its your fault for bringing warnings down upon yourself. Not the fault of the folks giving you the warnings. :)

Obviously youre autistic And obviously you have one of the symptoms of autism...which is social ineptitude.

And obviously you are NOT 100 percent aware of certain things...like...as you yourself said...you are obviously unable to recognize your own social ineptitude as it is happening in real time. So thats what you need to work on. Making sure your brain is engaged before putting your mouth into gear. And also seeing things from the other person's pov as life happens in real time.



CockneyRebel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 109,289
Location: On a special base where the Christmas soldiers of the world live

04 Dec 2022, 6:13 am

People feel that they can treat us this way, because they see us as being at the bottom of the social food chain. I think they get a kick out of scaring us into doing the right thing.


_________________
Oberfeldwebel

Age: 48
Gender: Non-Binary
Pronouns: He/Him/His
IQ: 86 and I use all 86 of them.


naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 68
Gender: Male
Posts: 30,784
Location: temperate zone

04 Dec 2022, 6:20 am

CockneyRebel wrote:
People feel that they can treat us this way, because they see us as being at the bottom of the social food chain. I think they get a kick out of scaring us into doing the right thing.


How exactly is he being mistreated?

You dont like that folks polititely warn him that "folks will kick your ass if you talk that way"?

Would you prefer that they just...went ahead physically kicked his ass right then and there?



Jayo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Jan 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,159

04 Dec 2022, 7:35 am

naturalplastic wrote:
CockneyRebel wrote:
People feel that they can treat us this way, because they see us as being at the bottom of the social food chain. I think they get a kick out of scaring us into doing the right thing.


How exactly is he being mistreated?

You dont like that folks polititely warn him that "folks will kick your ass if you talk that way"?

Would you prefer that they just...went ahead physically kicked his ass right then and there?


Yes, PRECISELY. While it could be construed as sanctimonious and patronizing, and it is to a certain degree, it's more rooted in genuine concern for your well-being. What pisses me off is the act as if I've got no idea at all that these are potential consequences, when it's more or less been the story of my life...



Jayo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Jan 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,159

04 Dec 2022, 7:38 am

temp1234 wrote:
Jayo wrote:
By projected threats, I mean a threat that the speaker isn't going to carry out but rather some nameless entity or group will.
E.G. "If you keep behaving like that, the others will take you aside and beat the sh*t out of you"
or "If you keep making those mistakes, nobody will tell you, they'll just pretend you don't exist"
or "You need to be more aware of how you come across; if you make those insensitive comments to the wrong person you'll find yourself out of a job"...
etc, etc...

I got these plenty of times, but the thing I found soooo insulting and patronizing about it was, I WAS ALREADY 100% AWARE OF THE CONSEQUENCES OF THIS AND THAT!! !

I JUST DIDN'T AUTOMATICALLY KNOW WHEN I MANIFESTED SAID BEHAVIOURS!! :evil: (or was about to)

I really think this is an area where NTs and people on the spectrum are the same: we are all aware that committing faux pas won't go unpunished in some way - be it inappropriate verbal or non-verbal responses - the difference is in intent and awareness. Which, for us, is diminished and must be raised to a more conscious level (masking).

I think a lot of the patronizing response stems from what psychologists call the FAE, or fundamental attribution error.
It must be to do with us autistic people being less socially aware. Without intending to offend, we might be breaking some common rules, which we are all supposed to learn naturally. That's a typical trait of autism. Also, people play politics and are more strict on us autistic people who are at the bottom of the social hierarchy.

I don't even get that threat/warning. People don't even consider me worth talking to. They often just start treating me as an outcast and pretend I don't exist.


What do you mean by "more strict on us"? Are you alluding to heavy-handed responses, or persecution, or maybe unreasonable demands just to rattle and discourage us? Sort of like the white majority in the U.S. Deep South who tried to prevent Negro voters from voting back in the 1960s by asking them unfair qualification questions?



Jayo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Jan 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,159

04 Dec 2022, 7:41 am

naturalplastic wrote:
Jayo wrote:
By projected threats, I mean a threat that the speaker isn't going to carry out but rather some nameless entity or group will.
E.G. "If you keep behaving like that, the others will take you aside and beat the sh*t out of you"
or "If you keep making those mistakes, nobody will tell you, they'll just pretend you don't exist"
or "You need to be more aware of how you come across; if you make those insensitive comments to the wrong person you'll find yourself out of a job"...
etc, etc...

I got these plenty of times, but the thing I found soooo insulting and patronizing about it was, I WAS ALREADY 100% AWARE OF THE CONSEQUENCES OF THIS AND THAT!! !

I JUST DIDN'T AUTOMATICALLY KNOW WHEN I MANIFESTED SAID BEHAVIOURS!! :evil: (or was about to)

I really think this is an area where NTs and people on the spectrum are the same: we are all aware that committing faux pas won't go unpunished in some way - be it inappropriate verbal or non-verbal responses - the difference is in intent and awareness. Which, for us, is diminished and must be raised to a more conscious level (masking).

I think a lot of the patronizing response stems from what psychologists call the FAE, or fundamental attribution error.


You ought to reread what you wrote. You would see how self-contradictory it is.

Youre saying that "folks talk to me like I am idiot just because I act, and talk, like an idiot".

Then you complain that "I know better, but...I act like an idiot anyway" WTF? If that were true then that would be all the MORE reason folks should criticize you, not less reason to. If you were so mentally impaired that you didnt know any better then folks would have reason to accommodate that. But you claim to be 100 percent aware...but you do the same offending behavior anyway. So what are you complaining about? If youre not an idiot but choose to act idiotic anyway then its your fault for bringing warnings down upon yourself. Not the fault of the folks giving you the warnings. :)

Obviously youre autistic And obviously you have one of the symptoms of autism...which is social ineptitude.

And obviously you are NOT 100 percent aware of certain things...like...as you yourself said...you are obviously unable to recognize your own social ineptitude as it is happening in real time. So thats what you need to work on. Making sure your brain is engaged before putting your mouth into gear. And also seeing things from the other person's pov as life happens in real time.


OK, just to clarify: when I said "I WAS ALREADY 100% AWARE OF THE CONSEQUENCES OF THIS AND THAT!!" - the "this and that" part is a broad generality, not referring to anything specific. Given my life experience to that point, I'd known harsh responses to unintended social slights all too well, but wasn't aware that I was committing those social slights and didn't get feedback to correct it, so it was like a broken feedback loop.

What pissed me off was that the other person giving me the warning acted as though I had no idea these could be potential consequences, when I'd already experienced them all too often...



naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 68
Gender: Male
Posts: 30,784
Location: temperate zone

04 Dec 2022, 8:22 am

So...its "I know that they hang you for murder, but I cant always tell when I am committing murder.".

Someone who knows you from Adam...your Momma, or even a longtime friend could be expected to make the distinction, and might well tell you "ya know...that social faux pas that you always make... that causes folks to kick your ass? Well... youre doing that same thing again right now. So STOP it!". But a workmate who doesnt know your backstory cannot be expected to make that distinction.

And also be aware that when folks say "you could get your ass kicked for what you just said" to you that what they are REALLY saying is "I myself wanna kick your ass right now. And you're lucky that I am not some ghetto hoodlum who doesnt have polite restraint and would actually kick your ass".

Maybe you need a job coach to follow you around and observe how you interact with folks and to give you coaching.



Jayo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Jan 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,159

04 Dec 2022, 10:19 am

naturalplastic wrote:
So...its "I know that they hang you for murder, but I cant always tell when I am committing murder.".

Someone who knows you from Adam...your Momma, or even a longtime friend could be expected to make the distinction, and might well tell you "ya know...that social faux pas that you always make... that causes folks to kick your ass? Well... youre doing that same thing again right now. So STOP it!". But a workmate who doesnt know your backstory cannot be expected to make that distinction.

And also be aware that when folks say "you could get your ass kicked for what you just said" to you that what they are REALLY saying is "I myself wanna kick your ass right now. And you're lucky that I am not some ghetto hoodlum who doesnt have polite restraint and would actually kick your ass".

Maybe you need a job coach to follow you around and observe how you interact with folks and to give you coaching.


Well, I have an issue with the whole murder analogy...I had a former housemate in my early 20s who used that murder line (pre-diagnosis), when I apologized to him for some unintended social screw-up. So that sounds extreme, but I guess they're pissed at the whole claiming of "not guilty due to mental incapacity" and they think someone like that should be segregated from normies and put in an institution. :(

Thankfully, I avoided these screw-ups more and more as I progressed through my 20s and 30s, through reflective insights and feedback from a small circle of trusted friends. The trouble with most feedback is we tend to be cynical about it (at least I did) and reject it as the other person trying to manipulate us. Put another way, we are more likely to cross paths with streetwise social predators than people who have good intentions towards us. 8O :(

The same could happen with a "job coach" who may be corrupted by his/her pathological disdain for Aspies. Not to mention the cost is way out of our reach. I once had a youth psychiatrist suggest I get an image consultant, so I dropped him; any reasonably intelligent person would know that only fits the pocket book of a politician or business executive :roll:



KitLily
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Jan 2021
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,539
Location: England

04 Dec 2022, 10:42 am

I used to get 'My friends are saying this about you.' 'My friends don't like the way you're treating me.'

I asked 'what friends? Who are they?'

But they could never say who these mysterious friends were... :lol:


_________________
I am here for interesting, meaningful discussions and thoughtful, rewarding conversations. I very quickly lose interest in long, drawn-out arguments.
***
I'm sorry if I get you mixed up with other people, I'm not good at telling people apart. Just remind me of our last conversation then I'll know who you are.


Jayo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Jan 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,159

04 Dec 2022, 10:49 am

KitLily wrote:
I used to get 'My friends are saying this about you.' 'My friends don't like the way you're treating me.'

I asked 'what friends? Who are they?'

But they could never say who these mysterious friends were... :lol:


Sounds like somebody who lacks assertive communication...which sadly sounds like a large percentage of NTs!!



KitLily
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Jan 2021
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,539
Location: England

04 Dec 2022, 10:51 am

Jayo wrote:
KitLily wrote:
I used to get 'My friends are saying this about you.' 'My friends don't like the way you're treating me.'

I asked 'what friends? Who are they?'

But they could never say who these mysterious friends were... :lol:


Sounds like somebody who lacks assertive communication...which sadly sounds like a large percentage of NTs!!


The person in question was certainly a narcissist, such a user, and trying to control me.


_________________
I am here for interesting, meaningful discussions and thoughtful, rewarding conversations. I very quickly lose interest in long, drawn-out arguments.
***
I'm sorry if I get you mixed up with other people, I'm not good at telling people apart. Just remind me of our last conversation then I'll know who you are.


Jayo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Jan 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,159

04 Dec 2022, 12:29 pm

KitLily wrote:
Jayo wrote:
KitLily wrote:
I used to get 'My friends are saying this about you.' 'My friends don't like the way you're treating me.'

I asked 'what friends? Who are they?'

But they could never say who these mysterious friends were... :lol:


Sounds like somebody who lacks assertive communication...which sadly sounds like a large percentage of NTs!!


The person in question was certainly a narcissist, such a user, and trying to control me.


Well, OK, I'd buy that - sounds similar to a couple of MY experiences 8O
Unfortunately, that's a classic dirty trick in the narcissist's toolbox, which I believe is called triangulation.

Not much you can say to that; they're just trying to bait you into an argument so they can act all histrionic. Not your fault in THAT case!! ! :x