What does it take for you to change your opinions about peop

Page 3 of 4 [ 49 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Zyborg
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 20 Dec 2008
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 459

24 Mar 2009, 10:29 am

McTell wrote:
Quote:
Love is weak. It dies with demands. Cola di Rienzi was loved by people of Rome, but with first defeat, they sold him to his enemies.


You know, the people didn't love him, at least not in the same way as one would love a friend.

He was in a position of power and that afforded him no safety, which makes it a counterexample to the argument you are putting forward - that is, that friendship and love do not afford security, but being in a position of power and having underlings do.


He did not have armed force or money, just popular support. To keep your position, you need to have people dependent on you. Then they will be friendly, while you do not need to be friendly with them. I cannot relate to individuals or their petty problems.

Girlfriend broken up? Test failed? You are depressed?

I do not care. Only thing I care is what movement could get from you.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,265

24 Mar 2009, 10:30 am

It depends on who you're surrounded by. Sure if we were all surrounded by loving, accepting people who wanted to be our friends and mutual respect was involved, there wouldn't be any problems. But, that isn't the situation for all of us. Some of us are not afforded that luxury.
Now, I don't agree with Zyborg's ideology but this illusion that people are loving and friendly is just that: an illusion. Some are and if you find some who accept you unconditionally, will be your friend and love you, you truly are lucky because lots of people never find ones who are like that.
I think if you are surrounded by people who don't respect you, your only option is to intimidate them into leaving you alone. There isn't much you can do. You cannot make someone be your friend who doesn't want friendship with you and if they don't respect you it's worse because they might be tempted to run up on you or get their friends involved in something similar.
If you can give them reason to believe they won't get away with it, that somehow there will be some kind of consequences, even if it means reporting them to cops, telling people they are harrassing you, there's less of a chance they will try something. It's not a guarantee tho. But what can you do?



Zyborg
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 20 Dec 2008
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 459

24 Mar 2009, 10:42 am

More important, those who are very "nice" are often weak-minded people. They composit good grunts, but nothing more.



McTell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Jan 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,453
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

24 Mar 2009, 11:23 am

Oh, I hope nobody thinks that I'm so deluded as to believe that people are as a rule lovely and pleasant. I'm not so naive. My argument was that you are safer to rely on those who like you than upon those who are afraid of you, not that people are more likely to love you than to hate you. I am well aware that there are plenty of people who it is impossible to befriend because they pose a danger.

But, most people will be entirely indifferent to you. By intimidating someone you do bring them to heel, but they are going to resent it, and if you slip up then you are in danger.

To Zyborg: Popular support isn't about love though. People are not friends to those politicians whom they support, they just like what the politician has to say. It is no wonder, then, that popular support alone is not enough to give you power. But, I am saying that popular support is closer to what you are advocating (as it is a form of having people under your control) than what you are condemning (having friends).

I must ask, though, if you only care about what "movement" you can get from a person, how will you get that person to care about you?

Also, I have met people who are nice, and yet not weak-minded. I have too, unfortunately, had experiences with many nasty, yet weak-minded, people.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,265

24 Mar 2009, 11:27 am

Zyborg wrote:
More important, those who are very "nice" are often weak-minded people. They composit good grunts, but nothing more.


I don't think they are weak minded. They make life easier than the ones who are openly hostile. Being nice doesn't always mean they want to be close or have a friendship tho. Still it makes it easier dealing with them on a day to day basis, if you have to see them more than once in your lifetime.

McTell wrote:
But, most people will be entirely indifferent to you. By intimidating someone you do bring them to heel, but they are going to resent it, and if you slip up then you are in danger.

I'm not a bully. I don't go out of my way to intimidate people. My personality isn't necessarily aggressive unless I feel like something is a threat to me then I think of ways to counteract and get pov across, being proactive, maybe? I guess same could be said for most people. Maybe this is a common strategy in self preservation?
Everyday strangers in a public space, I don't say much of anything to them, so you couldn't accurately call me a bully. Most of my intimidation is in the way I carry myself and my expression. It's probably because of my past. It's a defense I instinctively use. Look kind of glum and morose and people who might mess with me if I looked approachable and cheerful, easy to take advantage of, basically, will think twice, maybe?



Last edited by ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo on 24 Mar 2009, 11:34 am, edited 2 times in total.

Tantybi
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Mar 2008
Age: 42
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,130
Location: Wonderland

24 Mar 2009, 11:30 am

Zyborg wrote:
Love is weak. It dies with demands. Cola di Rienzi was loved by people of Rome, but with first defeat, they sold him to his enemies.


You must not know love then.



gina-ghettoprincess
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Nov 2008
Age: 26
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,669
Location: The Town That Time Forgot (UK)

24 Mar 2009, 11:33 am

Zyborg wrote:
More important, those who are very "nice" are often weak-minded people. They composit good grunts, but nothing more.


Many would disagree with you here, but I can totally see where you're coming from with this one. My ex-best friend was labelled as "nice", but she was totally weak-minded. As far as I can see, to be genuinely nice, someone should have the capacity to be evil but they choose not to be, not just being nice because they haven't the guts to do anything wrong.


_________________
'El reloj, no avanza
y yo quiero ir a verte,
La clase, no acaba
y es como un semestre"


MmeLePen
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Feb 2009
Age: 56
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,129
Location: R.I.P.

24 Mar 2009, 12:06 pm

Opinion. Hmmmm...not much use for opinions of people.

As far as detecting if someone is dangerous and/or toxic - I usually pick up that on first impression.

From there - I try not to form opinions. People are there for my (our) amusement. People are funny to watch and listen to, and to mimic. Sometimes people are really funny - the funniest ones don't mean to be funny - but serve as inspiration for all the people who try to be funny.

People -> amusement -> muse -> funny material.


_________________
Comprendre, c'est pardoner.


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 50,660
Location: Stendec

24 Mar 2009, 12:12 pm

Ana54 wrote:
What does it take for you to change your opinions about people?

I thought the people who used their intuition were stupid, that intuition was stupidity. But then I figured something out, using logic that using your intition is okay and good, and now I think intuitive people are just as smart, if not smarter.

Intuition/Instinct is good for basic survival, and for forming first impressions. Logic and reason are useful for finding out why your intuition/instincts are setting off internal alarms, and for determining whether or not those alarms are valid.

As for your question, what changes my opinion about a person is any agreement or conflict between their words and their actions. Broken promises, and why those promises were broken, tell a lot about a person.


_________________
 Link to Official List of Trump's Atrocities 

45OFFICE = TRE45ON
Lock Him Up!


gina-ghettoprincess
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Nov 2008
Age: 26
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,669
Location: The Town That Time Forgot (UK)

24 Mar 2009, 12:39 pm

I am fairly good at guessing what people are like. I just started at a new school, and everyone is trying to make small talk and be nice to me, and I am VERY good at telling who is really being nice, and who is just pretending to be nice so people won't think badly of them. I just reply to the latter then I carry on walking.


_________________
'El reloj, no avanza
y yo quiero ir a verte,
La clase, no acaba
y es como un semestre"


MmeLePen
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Feb 2009
Age: 56
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,129
Location: R.I.P.

24 Mar 2009, 2:42 pm

gina-ghettoprincess wrote:
I am fairly good at guessing what people are like. I just started at a new school, and everyone is trying to make small talk and be nice to me, and I am VERY good at telling who is really being nice, and who is just pretending to be nice so people won't think badly of them. I just reply to the latter then I carry on walking.


You've changed since you went back to school. :(

If people are being nice to you, take it for what it is. Sounds like a pretty good school. In some places, (at least here in the US) teenage girls (and some adults) don't even try to be nice to the new girl. They would have had her head in the garbage can or thrown food at the new girl - just for being new - let alone any girl who was slightly different.

Wish it were going better for you.


_________________
Comprendre, c'est pardoner.


Zyborg
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 20 Dec 2008
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 459

24 Mar 2009, 2:53 pm

My adherents are not my adherents because they fear me, but because they believe in me and my values.

I have been leader of numerous movements. I have learned lessons, and teached myself through Machiavelli and Sun Tzu.

I do not value relationship for sake of relationship. I value relationship because it could be productive.



McTell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Jan 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,453
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

24 Mar 2009, 3:01 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
McTell wrote:
But, most people will be entirely indifferent to you. By intimidating someone you do bring them to heel, but they are going to resent it, and if you slip up then you are in danger.

I'm not a bully. I don't go out of my way to intimidate people. My personality isn't necessarily aggressive unless I feel like something is a threat to me then I think of ways to counteract and get pov across, being proactive, maybe? I guess same could be said for most people. Maybe this is a common strategy in self preservation?
Everyday strangers in a public space, I don't say much of anything to them, so you couldn't accurately call me a bully. Most of my intimidation is in the way I carry myself and my expression. It's probably because of my past. It's a defense I instinctively use. Look kind of glum and morose and people who might mess with me if I looked approachable and cheerful, easy to take advantage of, basically, will think twice, maybe?


Oh, I didn't mean it to seem as though I thought that you were a bully. That kind of using body-language isn't the same as what I understood Zyborg to mean, which is that it is better to make people fear you than love you.



gina-ghettoprincess
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Nov 2008
Age: 26
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,669
Location: The Town That Time Forgot (UK)

24 Mar 2009, 3:04 pm

MmeLePen wrote:
gina-ghettoprincess wrote:
I am fairly good at guessing what people are like. I just started at a new school, and everyone is trying to make small talk and be nice to me, and I am VERY good at telling who is really being nice, and who is just pretending to be nice so people won't think badly of them. I just reply to the latter then I carry on walking.


You've changed since you went back to school. :(

If people are being nice to you, take it for what it is. Sounds like a pretty good school. In some places, (at least here in the US) teenage girls (and some adults) don't even try to be nice to the new girl. They would have had her head in the garbage can or thrown food at the new girl - just for being new - let alone any girl who was slightly different.

Wish it were going better for you.


You might have a point there. I'm glad most of them are only bitching behind my back (which they are) instead of really bad stuff. Except one girl who makes mean comments to me everytime I walk by, because I'm a vegetarian. (I dunno how that got out; I was trying not to give them reasons to think I'm weird already.) But I'm not that bothered, I just tell her to shut up.


_________________
'El reloj, no avanza
y yo quiero ir a verte,
La clase, no acaba
y es como un semestre"


MmeLePen
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Feb 2009
Age: 56
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,129
Location: R.I.P.

24 Mar 2009, 5:31 pm

gina-ghettoprincess wrote:
MmeLePen wrote:
gina-ghettoprincess wrote:
I am fairly good at guessing what people are like. I just started at a new school, and everyone is trying to make small talk and be nice to me, and I am VERY good at telling who is really being nice, and who is just pretending to be nice so people won't think badly of them. I just reply to the latter then I carry on walking.


You've changed since you went back to school. :(

If people are being nice to you, take it for what it is. Sounds like a pretty good school. In some places, (at least here in the US) teenage girls (and some adults) don't even try to be nice to the new girl. They would have had her head in the garbage can or thrown food at the new girl - just for being new - let alone any girl who was slightly different.

Wish it were going better for you.


You might have a point there. I'm glad most of them are only bitching behind my back (which they are) instead of really bad stuff. Except one girl who makes mean comments to me everytime I walk by, because I'm a vegetarian. (I dunno how that got out; I was trying not to give them reasons to think I'm weird already.) But I'm not that bothered, I just tell her to shut up.


Excellent! Give them a taste of your guts and humor! That's what we want to hear! :)

Besides - vegetarianism? You're way ahead of these girls. They'll be trying it too in a couple years - just to be cool. All girls do it.

You're the trend-setter, Gina! 8) Remember that!


_________________
Comprendre, c'est pardoner.


ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,265

24 Mar 2009, 6:20 pm

McTell wrote:
Oh, I didn't mean it to seem as though I thought that you were a bully. That kind of using body-language isn't the same as what I understood Zyborg to mean, which is that it is better to make people fear you than love you.

I think Zyborg is talking about body language and facial expressions too because he said he doesn't talk a lot. I don't talk a lot either but I don't share his worldview because it's impossible to find underlings that will do a good job and remain loyal, lol. jk
I agree, it's not cool to make people fear you instead of love you. It's better to have people love you, but if you are surrounded by people who don't, better to have them a bit intimidated so they don't constantly harrass and try stuff.