Deep and meaningful - why are people born with asd

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Fnord
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17 Jun 2021, 9:21 am

Metaphysical theories -- being that branch of philosophy concerned with first principles of things, including abstract concepts such as being, knowing, substance, cause ("Why"), identity, time, and space -- constitute a large portion of philosophy.

"Why are we born this way?" is in the realm of philosophers.

"What causes autism?" is in the realm of medical science.

I realize there is a subtle difference; but please, do not conflate the two.


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QFT
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17 Jun 2021, 9:59 am

Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
QFT wrote:
Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
Okay.I see.I disagree.I guess i see it the way i do because i come from a very literal sect of the faith.But i respect your opinion and your beliefs too,buddy.


Why would "taking the Bible literally" lead you to disagree with what I am saying? Since the literal reading of the Bible neither says that they were aspies nor that they weren't, this leaves us a freedom to speculate both ways. As long as there is nothing that would "rule out" my speculation, I am free to entertain it.

I guess its because my church teaches that everything that is bad about us and the world is a consequence of sin.


Yes, but the question is why would you assume that Asperger is one of the things that is "bad". Maybe the NT-s are the "bad" ones?



Texasmoneyman300
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17 Jun 2021, 11:09 am

QFT wrote:
Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
QFT wrote:
Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
Okay.I see.I disagree.I guess i see it the way i do because i come from a very literal sect of the faith.But i respect your opinion and your beliefs too,buddy.


Why would "taking the Bible literally" lead you to disagree with what I am saying? Since the literal reading of the Bible neither says that they were aspies nor that they weren't, this leaves us a freedom to speculate both ways. As long as there is nothing that would "rule out" my speculation, I am free to entertain it.

I guess its because my church teaches that everything that is bad about us and the world is a consequence of sin.


Yes, but the question is why would you assume that Asperger is one of the things that is "bad". Maybe the NT-s are the "bad" ones?

I guess because of my personal life experience.My life has been negatively affected by it.And also because now its referred to as part of Autism Spectrum Disorder and it has been my understanding that the medical community looks at it as a disorder or condition.



QFT
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17 Jun 2021, 11:15 am

Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
QFT wrote:
Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
QFT wrote:
Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
Okay.I see.I disagree.I guess i see it the way i do because i come from a very literal sect of the faith.But i respect your opinion and your beliefs too,buddy.


Why would "taking the Bible literally" lead you to disagree with what I am saying? Since the literal reading of the Bible neither says that they were aspies nor that they weren't, this leaves us a freedom to speculate both ways. As long as there is nothing that would "rule out" my speculation, I am free to entertain it.

I guess its because my church teaches that everything that is bad about us and the world is a consequence of sin.


Yes, but the question is why would you assume that Asperger is one of the things that is "bad". Maybe the NT-s are the "bad" ones?

I guess because of my personal life experience.My life has been negatively affected by it


But the reason your life was negatively affected by it is because NT-s are so judgemental. So if Person A kills Person B, who is affected by Adam and Eve sin? Person A, since they have a sinful desire to kill someone, or Person B since they have an ability to die in response to being killed? I guess both, but Person A more so. Well, in case of NT vs Aspie, the NT plays the role of Person A.

Now, if everyone in the planet were aspies then the life won't be negatively affected by Asperger any more. Which is why I am speculating that maybe this would have been the case if Adam and Eve didn't sin.



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17 Jun 2021, 11:25 am

Certainly it would be a better world if we were in the majority. Far from perfect, but better. We are generally less violent, unless threatened in some way or otherwise accosted by NTs. We'd largely let people do as they want as they weren't harming others in the process. People on the spectrum are generally less manipulative so world politics would be in safer hands.


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Texasmoneyman300
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17 Jun 2021, 11:35 am

QFT wrote:
Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
QFT wrote:
Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
QFT wrote:
Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
Okay.I see.I disagree.I guess i see it the way i do because i come from a very literal sect of the faith.But i respect your opinion and your beliefs too,buddy.


Why would "taking the Bible literally" lead you to disagree with what I am saying? Since the literal reading of the Bible neither says that they were aspies nor that they weren't, this leaves us a freedom to speculate both ways. As long as there is nothing that would "rule out" my speculation, I am free to entertain it.

I guess its because my church teaches that everything that is bad about us and the world is a consequence of sin.


Yes, but the question is why would you assume that Asperger is one of the things that is "bad". Maybe the NT-s are the "bad" ones?

I guess because of my personal life experience.My life has been negatively affected by it


But the reason your life was negatively affected by it is because NT-s are so judgemental. So if Person A kills Person B, who is affected by Adam and Eve sin? Person A, since they have a sinful desire to kill someone, or Person B since they have an ability to die in response to being killed? I guess both, but Person A more so. Well, in case of NT vs Aspie, the NT plays the role of Person A.

Now, if everyone in the planet were aspies then the life won't be negatively affected by Asperger any more. Which is why I am speculating that maybe this would have been the case if Adam and Eve didn't sin.

Oh okay.I see your point.I just think everyone is affected by the fall in various ways some more than others.I guess the way my life has been most negatively affected by Aspergers is the fact that i cant get a job despite having a 4 year degree but maybe im better off in the long run because of it.

I have generally been treated very good by NTs although i know that is not typical for people in our situation.I dont think NTs judging me in most cases was because of my Autism......i think it was because of something else or maybe it was Aspergers indirectly because I am against the status quo in my social circle for the most part however i dont know if thats because of my condition but it could be.Good point.i think my social circle would of treated me the same way if i would of done the same things that were against the status quo for my social circle if i was NT instead of ASD.



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17 Jun 2021, 11:52 am

Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
I just think everyone is affected by the fall in various ways some more than others.


As far as "everyone's life" I agree, I never said otherwise. The part where I disagree is "some more than others" part. In particular, I am disagreeing in who constitutes that "some". If you are saying that "gays are affected by it more than straights" I agree. But if you say "aspies are affected by it more than NTs" then I disagree.

Bible never said having Asperger is a sin. Thats the point. I agree that we are all sinners. And I agree that, logically, "all" includes people with Asperger. But it also includes people with brown hair. So saying "since we all sinners, people with brown hair is also sinners" is technically true but it is besides the point. So then why is there any more point in saying "we are all sinners so people with Asperger are sinners" unless, of course, you are seeing Asperger as sinful for some reason which I don't.

Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
I guess the way my life has been most negatively affected by Aspergers is the fact that i cant get a job despite having a 4 year degree but maybe im better off in the long run because of it.


You are still missing my point. I never said you are better off without a job. Rather, I said you can't equate Asperger with that. Back at the time of Stalin and Hitler there were all kinds of people killed for all kinds of reasons that had nothing to do with Asperger. And, conversely, it is possible to imagine the world where people with Asperger would thrive, if only the NT-s (including the ones that hire you) didn't judge them. So the issue here is not Asperger, the issue here is NT-s being judgemental.

Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
I have generally been treated very good by NTs


Thats interesting, particularly since you said they also refused to hire you.



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18 Jun 2021, 12:20 am

QFT wrote:
Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
I have generally been treated very good by NTs


Thats interesting, particularly since you said they also refused to hire you.


BTDT --- I temped for years after earning a prestigious 4-year degree. Eventually I happened upon an Aspie who was hiring. At the time I didn't know about my ASD, nor his --- but the sign he had taped on his chest at the job fair drew me right to him (another non-conformist). What I noticed is that this AS director hired AS and NTs alike (diverse thought - powerful team) while NT directors tended to hire only NTs (group think - good old boy's club). My Aspie-like BFF had a very similar experience in a completely different industry. Recently she was hired by an NT who has a diverse team... times are changing and/or my BFF is NT-enough now?



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03 Aug 2021, 5:38 pm

The Autism Spectrum is often hereditary - sometimes from both sides of the family; a broad range of classic Autism to High Functioning Autism even within immediate families.

I'm hopeful that growing awareness with the Autism Spectrum will boost progress in the lives of those concerned with the Autism Spectrum!



sitko
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19 Aug 2021, 5:30 pm

One theory I have is that we live in a simulation, and perhaps Autistics are the only "real" people. Neurotypicals are what is know as P-Zombies (in the theory), they are basically the Non-Player-Characters of this simulation. While Autistics are the real consciences from outside of the simulation, struggling to make sense in a mostly P-Zombie world.

It's just my theory, I'm not trying to convert anyone, or convince anyone.



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19 Aug 2021, 9:28 pm

sitko wrote:
One theory I have is that we live in a simulation, and perhaps Autistics are the only "real" people. Neurotypicals are what is know as P-Zombies (in the theory), they are basically the Non-Player-Characters of this simulation. While Autistics are the real consciences from outside of the simulation, struggling to make sense in a mostly P-Zombie world.

It's just my theory, I'm not trying to convert anyone, or convince anyone.

I don't like this game. I feel like the odds are stacked against me. Am I playing it wrong? I have been fairly passive and shutdown (for 50 years) - I'd really like to start telling those NPCs exactly what I think and demanding they accommodate me for a change. I'm afraid I'd get thrown in social jail (again).

Would ND folks also be real? My son is not Autistic but he's ND. My husband is probably NT, but with CPTSD. It's complicated, eh? But I can think of some straight up NTs (if not narcissists) that I'd like to erase or simply jump over.



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06 Sep 2021, 8:09 am

Fnord wrote:
Metaphysical theories -- being that branch of philosophy concerned with first principles of things, including abstract concepts such as being, knowing, substance, cause ("Why"), identity, time, and space -- constitute a large portion of philosophy.

"Why are we born this way?" is in the realm of philosophers.

"What causes autism?" is in the realm of medical science.

I realize there is a subtle difference; but please, do not conflate the two.

Well i believe that every problem in the world we have and have always had and will have including disease and medical differences is ultimately caused by Adam and Eve eating of the forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden in the Book of Genesis but thats just me.



larsivegen
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13 Sep 2021, 4:59 am

I I have fonud a lot of studies that make a connection between ASD and autoimmunity, and I guess that one of the reasons for the combination of those deviations, are mutations earlier in the pregnancy.
The reason I’ve come to the conclusion is that I guess there were som ting in my parents health status, that has caused my ASD and the autoimmune disorder Lichen Planus that I have.
As I understand mutations com out very randomly. I guess there are a lot of things that contribute to the mutations all from environmental, chemicals, food, parent's genes and health.
It would explain why we ASD persons are in such a wide spectrum. And even why siblings can come out wherry different in there mental statuses. I have some concerns that we will se rising figures in the future.
For any one interested there are a lot more to find on internet in the subject, I have added a link to one meta study below.

Here’s from the study. Immune Dysfunction and Autoimmunity as Pathological Mechanisms in Autism Spectrum Disorders
“Autism spectrum disorders (ASD) are a group of heterogeneous neurological disorders that are highly variable and are clinically characterized by deficits in social interactions, communication, and stereotypical behaviours. Prevalence has risen from 1 in 10,000 in 1972 to 1 in 59 children in the United States in 2014. This rise in prevalence could be due in part to better diagnoses and awareness, however, these together cannot solely account for such a significant rise.”

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10 ... 00405/full



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13 Sep 2021, 2:20 pm

larsivegen wrote:
“Autism spectrum disorders (ASD) ... Prevalence has risen from 1 in 10,000 in 1972 to 1 in 59 children in the United States in 2014. This rise in prevalence could be due in part to better diagnoses and awareness, however, these together cannot solely account for such a significant rise.”

Simply amused that I was around for both of those years and am not counted in either (undiagnosed as child 1972, now diagnosed as adult 2014). My super power is invisibility!! !! Unless they're updating studies retrospectively?



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13 Sep 2021, 11:22 pm

It’s almost all due to better awareness and broadened diagnostic criteria, in my opinion.



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25 Oct 2021, 3:18 pm

sitko wrote:
One theory I have is that we live in a simulation, and perhaps Autistics are the only "real" people. Neurotypicals are what is know as P-Zombies (in the theory), they are basically the Non-Player-Characters of this simulation. While Autistics are the real consciences from outside of the simulation, struggling to make sense in a mostly P-Zombie world.

It's just my theory, I'm not trying to convert anyone, or convince anyone.


How is that any less disrespectful than the NTs who claim that we're not fully human? Dehumanizing people for being different from you is a bad mentality to have.