Deep and meaningful - why are people born with asd

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Diamondgirl
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08 Mar 2021, 1:46 am

Hi everyone.

I'm a middle aged woman, just received my diagnosis last year but lived for a long time with the cycle of social problems and depression that often characterises asd women. I've got to a point in my life now where I'm relatively content, the depression and bullying and social inadequacy that was so much a part of my life in my twenties has subsided now, I've learned how to be happy on my own and honestly I'm pretty content. But I have been thinking lately about what I have given to others by being alive, and I'm not sure I'm happy with the answer. I haven't distinguished myself or become a leader in my career like I thought I would when I was younger (haven't advanced beyond second entry level), I gave up music and haven't been able to really be myself with other people because my problems are too all pervasive to hit other people over the head with. I have begun doing a little bit of telephone counselling lately and maybe I'm helping some people by doing that. But really, much as it has been through no real fault of my own, I've been a drag for a lot of people to be around, and being a fairly spiritual person I've been wondering why people are born with asd in the first place. There are theories about it being due to some insensitivity or something in a past life, and I'm open to these, but at the end of the day of course like a lot of religious/philosophical questions nobody really knows. Has anyone else got any thoughts on this or am I the only one?



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11 Mar 2021, 7:27 am

Well this is an interesting question and everyone has their pet theories.

For me, I do believe there is an evolutionary reason for the persistence of a base level of autists or people with strong autistic traits in the population.

If you look back to the longest period of human development (before cities and "civilisation"), humans lived in smaller groups or tribes - maybe 50 to 150 individuals might have been typical, at a guess. So that would have been about the right size to have one or two autistics.

My hypothesis is that the autist would tend to be the one with the drive to learn and remember all the more obscure knowledge of the tribe, such as the locations of certain types of wild foods or medicines or how animal behaviour predicts earthquakes and that kind of thing. They would maybe become the "shaman" or "wise woman".

Although the autist might not have been the most popular person on an individual level, they would contribute to the survival of the tribe over those without an autist, hence maintaining a base level of autistic traits in the population.

I wonder sometimes if the moves to purge society of "witches" a few hundred years ago might have caught a lot of autists, whose skills were no longer viewed as serving their communities in an era of more settled existence, increased knowledge of science, and an intolerance of "pagan" practices. And whether those who remained might have tended to become scientists themselves.

Well, that's just my speculation.
Looking to the future, I still see a place for autists in society, perhaps with many moving into fields such as IT and finance. I know the stereotype is not true for everyone, but it's not completely unfounded that many are good with figures and code.

As for the rest of us, I guess we just muddle along as best we can :shrug:



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11 Mar 2021, 9:23 am

For absolute certain, genetics plays a role in autism. As many as 1,000 genes may be involved. According to a paper in the Annual Review of Public Health, the genetic contribution to autism ranges from 50% to 95%. The tricky thing, however, is that each gene likely plays only a minimal role. A small tweak here, another small tweak there. We will never discover "the autism gene," which makes research incredibly difficult.

But your question seems to go a little deeper. It is almost like asking "Why Me?"

Aspies are the Omega of the human world. We are the scapegoats. We have two choices in life. We can try and conform to civilization and undergo extreme stress until we are finally broken or we can leave the tribe and plot our own course. We can own ourselves.


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11 Mar 2021, 10:03 am

I'm science based - genetics. However, my AS-like mom is very spiritual and she might have an answer along the lines you are thinking. She believes we choose our life experience. In her way of thinking, the fact that we chose this hardship, indicates our bravery and strength.

I have the "big" and "special" feeling for myself and approaching 50 am still low-level. Like you and many AS women, I have suffered (and do still to some degree) severe depression and the like. I am hopeful now that I have my diagnosis and can be more forgiving for myself (even if the patriarchy isn't), I will do "big" and "special" in my lifetime still. That said, my mom who showed glimpses of "big" has withdrawn from life (70 years of burnout) and I am sad for her and society. Thankfully she improved on her life experience and made it a little easier for me. If I don't do "big" and "special" in my lifetime, that's ok too b/c I can see where I've made an impact already given cultural constraints.

AANE has a great women's online support group.



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16 Mar 2021, 5:21 pm

Diamondgirl wrote:
Hi everyone.

I'm a middle aged woman, just received my diagnosis last year but lived for a long time with the cycle of social problems and depression that often characterises asd women. I've got to a point in my life now where I'm relatively content, the depression and bullying and social inadequacy that was so much a part of my life in my twenties has subsided now, I've learned how to be happy on my own and honestly I'm pretty content. But I have been thinking lately about what I have given to others by being alive, and I'm not sure I'm happy with the answer. I haven't distinguished myself or become a leader in my career like I thought I would when I was younger (haven't advanced beyond second entry level), I gave up music and haven't been able to really be myself with other people because my problems are too all pervasive to hit other people over the head with. I have begun doing a little bit of telephone counselling lately and maybe I'm helping some people by doing that. But really, much as it has been through no real fault of my own, I've been a drag for a lot of people to be around, and being a fairly spiritual person I've been wondering why people are born with asd in the first place. There are theories about it being due to some insensitivity or something in a past life, and I'm open to these, but at the end of the day of course like a lot of religious/philosophical questions nobody really knows. Has anyone else got any thoughts on this or am I the only one?


I believe that God and the angels concern themselves with the spiritual. The body itself is just flesh, and ASD is a trait of the body/mind. Why would angels fret over that trivial matter? Only humans concern themselves with such matters. People are drunk on the world.

No variation is inherently bad from the perspective of the Divine, only from our human perspective do we, with limited sight, think certain traits are bad.

To the Divine, pain and suffering, life and death are not questions of any importance. Humans are suffering and dying all over the world, every second, so it is commonplace. God's mercy comes in the form of death. Suffering is finite due to death. We only have to put up with so much before these bodies wear out and perish.

Dividing existence into spiritual and material is the way I found to reconcile the world's suffering with a loving God. If material mattered to God, then yes, He would intervene, but it cannot matter, because He permits every manner of insult to our flesh.

In the end (death), the illusion which is our selves vanishes. No trace remains. We return to the One which is God, and everything is of God.


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21 Mar 2021, 7:24 pm

very possible. journey of souls book.



Texasmoneyman300
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16 Jun 2021, 2:51 am

Diamondgirl wrote:
Hi everyone.

I'm a middle aged woman, just received my diagnosis last year but lived for a long time with the cycle of social problems and depression that often characterises asd women. I've got to a point in my life now where I'm relatively content, the depression and bullying and social inadequacy that was so much a part of my life in my twenties has subsided now, I've learned how to be happy on my own and honestly I'm pretty content. But I have been thinking lately about what I have given to others by being alive, and I'm not sure I'm happy with the answer. I haven't distinguished myself or become a leader in my career like I thought I would when I was younger (haven't advanced beyond second entry level), I gave up music and haven't been able to really be myself with other people because my problems are too all pervasive to hit other people over the head with. I have begun doing a little bit of telephone counselling lately and maybe I'm helping some people by doing that. But really, much as it has been through no real fault of my own, I've been a drag for a lot of people to be around, and being a fairly spiritual person I've been wondering why people are born with asd in the first place. There are theories about it being due to some insensitivity or something in a past life, and I'm open to these, but at the end of the day of course like a lot of religious/philosophical questions nobody really knows. Has anyone else got any thoughts on this or am I the only one?

As a Christian, I think its because of Adam and Eve on the macro level and that its just part of the fall of man since we got kicked out of the Garden of Eden.However, i dont know how or why Jesus decided to make me have aspergers.Hopefully He will tell me in the life to come.



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17 Jun 2021, 2:31 am

Diamondgirl wrote:
I haven't distinguished myself or become a leader in my career like I thought I would when I was younger (haven't advanced beyond second entry level)


I am sorry to hear you didn't succeed at your career goals. What were they?

There is a saying "better late than never". Maybe you should consider going back to school and doing whatever it takes to put together the kind of career you always wanted to have.

I don't mean to be preachy, I just know that career can be very important since I, too, had career goals since I was a little kid. In my case, I wanted to be a theoretical physicist. But, as a result of various stupid mistakes along the way, here I am at 41 still not being a professor. But I still don't want to consider taking any other permanent job. Instead, I went back to school still in the hopes of being theoretical physicist. I don't like this situation at all. After being one of the youngest students in the past I am now one of the oldest. But it is better than giving up the career altogether.

So maybe you should do the same thing I did. Consider going back to school and try to do what you can to fulfill your dreams. Even if you fail, at least you would know that you tried. Its always better to be able to say "I tried" than to regret that you didn't. And then who knows, you might succeed too. You never know. You mentioned that you aren't bullied now as much as you were in the past, so maybe that would be one reason why you might be able to focus better this time.

And, going back to the question you asked, maybe the answer is something along the lines of "free will". You weren't "meant" to be where you are. You were given a free will. So you can use your free will to get yourself to where you want to go. And then if you do "choose" to pick yourself up, you might come out stronger, since you would be able to tell people "look at the mess I used to be and look at where I am now". So you might end up being an inspiration to other people in similar situations. Both your past failures and your future success will play an important role in this object lesson you will give others.



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17 Jun 2021, 2:47 am

Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
As a Christian, I think its because of Adam and Eve on the macro level and that its just part of the fall of man since we got kicked out of the Garden of Eden.However, i dont know how or why Jesus decided to make me have aspergers.Hopefully He will tell me in the life to come.


I am also a Christian, but I disagree with what you said. Yes I believe that we are all sinners -- both NTs and aspies -- as a result of the fall of Adam and Eve. But if you say that asperger, specifically, is the result of the fall, then you are saying that Asperger is a form of sin, which I disagree with. When NT-s look down on aspies, that is sin too. However, if you say that "the conflict between NTs and aspies is the result of the fall", that I can agree with.

By the way when I read the Gospels I see Jesus siding with the outcasts and standing up against the popular. So I believe Jesus would side with the aspies. One chapter that I find that specifically relates to this is John chapter 9. In particular, its beginning and its end:

First part of that chapter

John 9:1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.

2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

Last part of that chapter

John 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.

40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?

41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

So basically in the first part of the chapter Jesus said that disability is not a sin. And then in the last part of the chapter Jesus also said that the real sinners are the people without disability that knowingly do things wrong (and those people happened to be the popular ones of His day) while people with disability aren't condemned.

One should be a bit more careful though. Because the other passages that involve Jesus curing epilepsy do imply that epilepsy is the result of demonic possession. So the real question is which category do we put Asperger on: should we say "Asperger is like blindness so it is not sin" or should we say "Asperger is like epilepsy so it is"?

I would side with the point of view that Asperger is not a sin for the following reason. The whole essence of Asperger is the person not being able to fit into man-made social conventions. But throughout His ministry Jesus was condemning man-made conventions. So if we take Jesus' point of view that man-made conventions are useless at best and hypocritical at worst, then we wouldn't have any reason to even call Asperger a disability, much less attribute it to demonic possession.

One thing I am puzzled about is why don't other Christians see that point. Like I remember Christian women who rejected me first said God told them we are not a good match but then later they told me that it were their friends who disapproved and when they said God they meant "God speaks through people". But since when did Jesus ever preach the concept of popularity? Jesus never said that the most popular person is the best because God speaks through people. Jesus said just the opposite.

The other thing about Christians that I find equally puzzling is the prosperity gospel. Again, Jesus never said that being rich is a sign of God's blessings. Jesus was doing just the opposite when He was condemning the rich and uplifting the poor. Sometimes I wonder whether "popularity gospel" and "prosperity gospel" has a common root that comes from some misconception someone made somewhere. I am wondering exactly when and how was that misconception made.



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17 Jun 2021, 3:02 am

QFT wrote:
Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
As a Christian, I think its because of Adam and Eve on the macro level and that its just part of the fall of man since we got kicked out of the Garden of Eden.However, i dont know how or why Jesus decided to make me have aspergers.Hopefully He will tell me in the life to come.


I am also a Christian, but I disagree with what you said. Yes I believe that we are all sinners -- both NTs and aspies -- as a result of the fall of Adam and Eve. But if you say that asperger, specifically, is the result of the fall, then you are saying that Asperger is a form of sin, which I disagree with. When NT-s look down on aspies, that is sin too. However, if you say that "the conflict between NTs and aspies is the result of the fall", that I can agree with.

By the way when I read the Gospels I see Jesus siding with the outcasts and standing up against the popular. So I believe Jesus would side with the aspies. One chapter that I find that specifically relates to this is John chapter 9. In particular, its beginning and its end:

First part of that chapter

John 9:1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.

2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

Last part of that chapter

John 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.

40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?

41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

So basically in the first part of the chapter Jesus said that disability is not a sin. And then in the last part of the chapter Jesus also said that the real sinners are the people without disability that knowingly do things wrong (and those people happened to be the popular ones of His day) while people with disability aren't condemned.

One should be a bit more careful though. Because the other passages that involve Jesus curing epilepsy do imply that epilepsy is the result of demonic possession. So the real question is which category do we put Asperger on: should we say "Asperger is like blindness so it is not sin" or should we say "Asperger is like epilepsy so it is"?

I would side with the point of view that Asperger is not a sin for the following reason. The whole essence of Asperger is the person not being able to fit into man-made social conventions. But throughout His ministry Jesus was condemning man-made conventions. So if we take Jesus' point of view that man-made conventions are useless at best and hypocritical at worst, then we wouldn't have any reason to even call Asperger a disability, much less attribute it to demonic possession.

One thing I am puzzled about is why don't other Christians see that point. Like I remember Christian women who rejected me first said God told them we are not a good match but then later they told me that it were their friends who disapproved and when they said God they meant "God speaks through people". But since when did Jesus ever preach the concept of popularity? Jesus never said that the most popular person is the best because God speaks through people. Jesus said just the opposite.

The other thing about Christians that I find equally puzzling is the prosperity gospel. Again, Jesus never said that being rich is a sign of God's blessings. Jesus was doing just the opposite when He was condemning the rich and uplifting the poor. Sometimes I wonder whether "popularity gospel" and "prosperity gospel" has a common root that comes from some misconception someone made somewhere. I am wondering exactly when and how was that misconception made.

No i am not saying Autism/aspergers is sin because that would be really offensive and wrong .I just think it as a result of how sin has impacted the world and mankind and has messed up our biology and everything else that goes wrong us with us.I guess i should say that i think there would be no Aspergers if Adam and eve would of never introduced sin into the world. I am also against the prosperity gospel.I agree that Christ generally sided with the marginilized of society. Our situation reminds me of some of the people Jesus healed that were not treated wells by society.I think Jesus understands all problems everyone goes through.Also i think every bad and negative thing in the world is a result of the forbidden fruit.



Last edited by Texasmoneyman300 on 17 Jun 2021, 3:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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17 Jun 2021, 3:10 am

Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
I guess i should say that i think there would be no Aspergers if Adam and eve would of never introduced sin into the world.


I can disagree with that too. It could be the other way around. Maybe everyone in heaven would have been aspies. After all, aspies are naive and innocent, and so were people in heaven. When Adam and Eve "weren't aware" they were naked, you could call it Asperger. And when they became aware after eating from the tree, they became NT.



Texasmoneyman300
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17 Jun 2021, 3:14 am

Okay.I see.I disagree.I guess i see it the way i do because i come from a very literal sect of the faith.But i respect your opinion and your beliefs too,buddy.



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17 Jun 2021, 4:17 am

QFT raised a rather interesting point I've never thought about before!


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17 Jun 2021, 7:29 am

Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
Okay.I see.I disagree.I guess i see it the way i do because i come from a very literal sect of the faith.But i respect your opinion and your beliefs too,buddy.


Why would "taking the Bible literally" lead you to disagree with what I am saying? Since the literal reading of the Bible neither says that they were aspies nor that they weren't, this leaves us a freedom to speculate both ways. As long as there is nothing that would "rule out" my speculation, I am free to entertain it.



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17 Jun 2021, 8:25 am

QFT wrote:
Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
Okay.I see.I disagree.I guess i see it the way i do because i come from a very literal sect of the faith.But i respect your opinion and your beliefs too,buddy.


Why would "taking the Bible literally" lead you to disagree with what I am saying? Since the literal reading of the Bible neither says that they were aspies nor that they weren't, this leaves us a freedom to speculate both ways. As long as there is nothing that would "rule out" my speculation, I am free to entertain it.

I guess its because my church teaches that everything that is bad about us and the world is a consequence of sin.



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17 Jun 2021, 8:33 am

The teaching of any specific church is not infallible.


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