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The_Znof
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07 Mar 2021, 6:41 pm

by treatment I mean both the supposed help and at least one very fishy diagnosis on an episode, the clip of which was uploaded to dr phils youtube account.



A teen who had tried every ADHD med under the sun was still acting out, so Dr Phil suggested Autism, and seemed to me to imply the ADHD diagnosis was flat out wrong.

He then deferred to Dr Frank Lawlis, who was sitting in the Audience as the shows content producer.

This is where it really got weird. Dr Lawlis then described what sounded like a vague ADHD description involving the teen having a poor working memory, and then threw in the most disturbing part of all.

He said this issue was from "the back" of the brain.

beside the point, but I suspect this shot working memory in the back of the brain is more likely to be dr lawlis gaslighting than doing incredibly weak psychology..

back to the problem..

Yes Dr Lawlis has a conflict of interest and makes a tidy profit, but unlike his diagnosis most of his treatments seem more overpriced than harmful, and I suspect they do some good.

But heres the real trouble, a lot of people are getting painted as entitled brats in need of punishment, and even more people are eating it up.

Image

its not shown in the clip, but Dr Phil is at least a very devoted promoter of a ranch run by Aspen Education Group. These ranches are mostly thought of as a last resort for troubled teens with substance abuse problems, Truancy[lol], and troubles with the law.

But a look on the wiki for Aspen EG shows they are very interested in autistics, with some camps specializing in autism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspen_Education_Group

I have been researching this about a month now, and while the mainstream media largely ignores the issue ala Judge Rottenburg center, the tales of abuse are rampant and convincing.

The camps seem totally reliant on negative re-enforcement, which according to BF Skinner's research does not work.
they also take the tough "love" so far that there have been ~100 deaths in these camps due to things like heatstroke being written off as whining by the minimum wage staff.

This has been well hid, I didnt know there was such thing as a troubled teen industry till a month ago.

Could be that the autism wing of Aspen is not as misguided as its drug ect treatment, but that would not fit the pattern here, would it..

Im hoping to make my first youtube vid on this, so am interested on any insights and or reactions to the source clip I may get here by the members, thanks.



ASPartOfMe
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07 Mar 2021, 7:38 pm

I did not see the whole show but it is questionable to make a diagnosis of a troubled teen like that without a full assessment.

Low working memory is an executive functioning issue. Executive dysfunctions are common in both Autism and ADHD.

Parents who go on programs such as Dr. Phil's are often narcissists and as such whatever mental condition their kids have is often exacerbated by bad parenting.


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carlos55
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08 Mar 2021, 9:42 am

Using vague language like “back of the brain” is a red flag for a scam of some sort.

The US is very different from the UK on medical things.

The UK NHS is like a benevolent dictatorship.

Policy on everything is decided at the top and all doctors and staff get to be ordered on what to do with each condition and dare not step out of line.

In the US once you become a doctor it seems you can almost prescribe what you like and almost do your own experiments / research within reason, all quite legally.



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08 Mar 2021, 3:20 pm

I was completely unaware of this.


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Mona Pereth
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09 Mar 2021, 11:45 am

carlos55 wrote:
Using vague language like “back of the brain” is a red flag for a scam of some sort.

The US is very different from the UK on medical things.

The UK NHS is like a benevolent dictatorship.

Policy on everything is decided at the top and all doctors and staff get to be ordered on what to do with each condition and dare not step out of line.

In the US once you become a doctor it seems you can almost prescribe what you like and almost do your own experiments / research within reason, all quite legally.


That's true only for those doctors who have enough of an upper-class clientele that they can rely solely on private pay.

Most doctors are limited by what the insurance companies are willing to pay for.


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The_Znof
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09 Mar 2021, 11:37 pm

NaturalEntity wrote:
I was completely unaware of this.


Me too, surprised no bigger time alt journalist had Put something together

it’s juicy stuff,

sitting duck narcs,

Yum yum

I wonder if we would still not know if Paris Hilton hadn’t made her doc



Last edited by The_Znof on 10 Mar 2021, 12:24 am, edited 2 times in total.

The_Znof
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10 Mar 2021, 12:17 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Parents who go on programs such as Dr. Phil's are often narcissists and as such whatever mental condition their kids have is often exacerbated by bad parenting.


My introduction to dr Phil was this breakdown of dr Phil’s treatment of Bailey.

Narc mom brings in the big guns phil itself to trigger some ultra violence.

Bailey doesn’t bite, shes wise as a serpent, harmless as a dove.

A good name for this form of narcissistic abuse is revenge stalking, but in this case it is a bit problematic that the one they take revenge on was more of a spammer than a stalker.



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10 Mar 2021, 8:18 am

The_Znof wrote:
its not shown in the clip, but Dr Phil is at least a very devoted promoter of a ranch run by Aspen Education Group. These ranches are mostly thought of as a last resort for troubled teens with substance abuse problems, Truancy[lol], and troubles with the law.

But a look on the wiki for Aspen EG shows they are very interested in autistics, with some camps specializing in autism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspen_Education_Group

I have been researching this about a month now, and while the mainstream media largely ignores the issue ala Judge Rottenburg center, the tales of abuse are rampant and convincing.

The camps seem totally reliant on negative re-enforcement, which according to BF Skinner's research does not work.
they also take the tough "love" so far that there have been ~100 deaths in these camps due to things like heatstroke being written off as whining by the minimum wage staff.

This has been well hid, I didnt know there was such thing as a troubled teen industry till a month ago.

Could be that the autism wing of Aspen is not as misguided as its drug ect treatment, but that would not fit the pattern here, would it..

Im hoping to make my first youtube vid on this, so am interested on any insights and or reactions to the source clip I may get here by the members, thanks.


Thanks for the info. Please let us know your further findings.

Hopefully the Aspen programs that remain are better than (or have become better than) the ones that got closed down?

If indeed these programs are (still) abusive, this needs to be publicized. Thanks for your efforts on behalf of these kids.


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The_Znof
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10 Mar 2021, 1:30 pm

Thank you for the interest Mona.

Sadly I don’t think improvements are likely and these places are fine tuned Hellholes which are watched over closely by thier creators, not only to learn how to make the camps even worse and interfere in real time, but also for entertainment.

Also the mean and stupid people they hire for guards seem to be getting worse fast.

Paris Hilton made a doc on these camps, and I suspect that may have been the tipping point for the camps and dr Phil.

Ps I didn’t get back to put the vid in my Bailey post last night. I do recommend this vid. It’s sad but also touching.



MidnightRose
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18 Mar 2021, 7:05 pm

Ah OP! I was going to link Big Joel and you beat me to it! Dr. Phil is a glorified freak show where we bring a troubled person on stage and have them talk about all their scandalous/cringeworthy issues on national television while Phil gives vague advice. People's mental health crises should not be a "show." Though I have heard that he sets them up with actual psychiatric help after the show. That's the only good thing I can think of about his show.



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19 Mar 2021, 4:33 pm

MidnightRose wrote:
Ah OP! I was going to link Big Joel and you beat me to it! Dr. Phil is a glorified freak show where we bring a troubled person on stage and have them talk about all their scandalous/cringeworthy issues on national television while Phil gives vague advice. People's mental health crises should not be a "show." Though I have heard that he sets them up with actual psychiatric help after the show. That's the only good thing I can think of about his show.

I never knew that. I didn't think it was that good or accurate to start with but after seeing this thread... damn.


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The_Znof
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17 May 2021, 12:50 am

Mona Pereth wrote:

Thanks for the info. Please let us know your further findings.



Three findings worth sharing, four actually.

Starting With the most on topic finding:

Phil’s buddy in the op vid, Frank, has at least one book on adhd claiming 80 something percent of parents of adhd people divorce..

alex wrote:
Here's another quote describing the show:

Dr. Phil tells the couple that the divorce rate among parents with autistic children is about 86 percent. “Why do you suppose that is?” he asks.

Wow, great job Dr. Phil. :roll:


Phil’s right hand mAn, frank, guy in my op vid saying nonsense, gives the same stat for adhd In his book on adhd.

Trouble is adHD is thought to come from a parent, at least in part, and autism too, right? and that is a variable in this stat.


This may be evidence of autism speaks poor parents Bs, but more subtle?

With Phil the help is always weak, and the weaponized psychology always full of passionate intensity.

Second discovery and last for now, I said earlier in this thread that Bailey, who was tormented on tv by Phil, was not a stalker, but a spammer.

I now say that does not go far enough, I think she was Likely manipulated

Ok previews of two more

Third discovery is more on the dr Phil app, I have a thread in the tech forum

Fourth, uh oh, brain fart :

[edit]aha, fourth is whoever says this Dr Phil is not doing psychology is clueless or in on it.

Look where this leads, this Paul G. Mattiuzzi guy in the link below actually goes so far to say because dr Phil’s show entertainment and fake psychology that it is Therefore not Even real, Real like Britney Spears.

Just listen..

[About his apparent violation of California's psychology licensing law - the fact that he represented himself as being trained, educated and qualified as a psychologist? My guess is that at most, the BOP might issue a warning letter and probably won't even do that. Psychologists and the BOP are in fact concerned on a daily basis with serious business. Dr. Phil is in the entertainment business and the field of pop-psychology.

The BOP's [Board of Psychology] job is to protect the public and to protect consumers. If Dr. Phil gets out of line, the media and the market will take care of him. If need be, Oprah will slap him down. In misleading the public, Dr. Phil offended the profession. But the BOP protects consumers, not the profession.

[...]

Phil is not actually a psychologist, but he does play one on TV. That was never a problem. But then one day, he decided to walk off the stage and into someone's very real life. And that was a mistake. [/quote]

Ok mister protector of consumers who thinks dr Phil is a lesser forsenic [his specialty along with legal] psycholologist than you.

What if I told you these two women were tormented on Phil’s stage, and it looks way more real than a lot of things, and what if I asked you, are you a bit off up there yourself, ? unaware of Phil’s well documented legal experience, yet passing yourself off as an expert in this issue? Mr Paul G. Mattiuzzi?

I suggest you look up narcissism Paul G. Mattiuzzi.

Here is Bailey’s forerunner, at least the first one I found. I’ll embed later

https://youtube.com/watch?v=VENIgsXziXo



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17 May 2021, 6:49 am

Unlike my prev comment Ive just watched the first clip and don’t see the big deal here.

He just says to the parents he thinks their son has ASD and they should get help for him which sounds quite reasonable to me.

The man in the audience talking about the “back of the brain” was just generalizing rather than diagnosing so again no big deal.

These places for autistic kids may simply be confidence boosters aimed at those with mild aspie symptoms rather than pretending to cure autism. They have these places in the UK where teenagers get to go hiking in the hills, build lake crossing rafts etc...

So on the face of it doesn’t look a big deal then again I’m from the UK and don’t know anything about DrPhil apart from the clip before anyone shoots me down in flames.



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17 May 2021, 7:53 am

Dr. Phil is a TV-personality, showman, pundit and charlatan. He should not be considered an authority in any matters related to mental health.

This is show business. They don't care about people's best interests by design.

There is a huge controversy developing about abuse in facilities he endorsed:



carlos55
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17 May 2021, 8:40 am

badRobot wrote:
Dr. Phil is a TV-personality, showman, pundit and charlatan. He should not be considered an authority in any matters related to mental health.

This is show business. They don't care about people's best interests by design.

There is a huge controversy developing about abuse in facilities he endorsed:


The clip shows what looks like a NT shouting, swearing self entitled teenager talking like she had been sent to a North Korean concentration camp.

Bad things may or may not have happened there but I’m sure they probably try to do there best and some of these kids may be violent and disturbed.

These type of shows exist in the UK like Jeremy Kyle for example for entertainment purposes. They exist in the grey area between entertainment and help though they raise awareness of issues which is a positive thing.

Though they only usually feature over 18s.

Its morally questionable though bringing a troubled kid on tv to be seen by millions when they deserve anonymity and specialized help.

Having said that the kid in the clip should self reflect on her behavior and her relationship with her parents. What may have led them to go on the show in the first place.

It’s probably a generational thing.



The_Znof
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17 May 2021, 8:52 am

carlos55 wrote:
So on the face of it doesn’t look a big deal then again I’m from the UK and don’t know anything about DrPhil apart from the clip before anyone shoots me down in flames.


You don’t know the clip, fact not flame.