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magz
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22 Apr 2021, 5:43 am

...by simply being instructed to imagine another person's perspective.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... sists-care

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These results suggest that narcissists are capable of empathy, but, most of the time, do not put in the effort to take another person’s perspective. If it is clearly important for narcissist to take another person’s perspective, then they can do it, although, most of the time, they do not.

In order to help narcissists engage in more pro-social behavior, then, it is important to give them reasons to want to take other people’s point of view rather than just focusing on themselves.


And a reminder: when interacting with a person with a personality disorder (including narcissists), protect your own mental health first.


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Fnord
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22 Apr 2021, 9:17 am

I have my doubts.  Are narcissists being taught empathy, or are they only learning how to mimic empathy?


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magz
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22 Apr 2021, 9:46 am

Fnord wrote:
I have my doubts.  Are narcissists being taught empathy, or are they only learning how to mimic empathy?

The final study measured heart rate, not conscious responses.


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Fnord
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22 Apr 2021, 9:48 am

magz wrote:
Fnord wrote:
I have my doubts.  Are narcissists being taught empathy, or are they only learning how to mimic empathy?
The final study measured heart rate, not conscious responses.
I have been the victim of narcissists too often to fully trust them.  But if science can prove it, then it must be true.


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magz
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22 Apr 2021, 9:52 am

I absolutely don't say you should trust any narcissist.
Trust is something one needs to earn, no one should ever take others' trust for granted.


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22 Apr 2021, 9:54 am

magz wrote:
I absolutely don't say you should trust any narcissist.  Trust is something one needs to earn.
Certé.


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sorrowfairiewhisper
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22 Apr 2021, 10:04 am

You can programme a robot to respond or act a certain way or "display emotions"

but you can't make them sincerely organically feel. Same goes for emotionless people.


I don't know what to think of this study. Wishful thinking. Some people feel no empathy, have no remorse, compassion or conscience, some people feel things very deeply, others dismiss like it's nothing.

Depends on the individual and there nature.



violetdr3amer
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04 May 2021, 12:44 pm

Interesting.
It may be technically possible, but not very realistic. Most narcissists aren't completely devoid of empathy; it's just their egos are so big that they can't see other people's emotions, and what they want always overrides everything so they don't take into account how their actions might make other people feel.

In my experience, narcissists only "care" when it's convenient for them; when it's no longer convenient for them, their ego takes the front seat again. Many therapists refuse to work with narcissists, and most narcissists don't want therapy, because they don't want to admit that there may be something "wrong" with them and that they might need therapy.



CollegeGirlAnon
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05 May 2021, 7:59 pm

I would say when dealing with anyone I protect my own mental health first.

Anyone should do the same.

Neurotype does not matter that much.

Also, there are different types of empathy.

It varies as to what individual person experiences and as to what level.


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IsabellaLinton
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05 May 2021, 8:09 pm

Sociopaths do have limited empathy.
The problem is they use the empathy to exploit other people because they don't care.
They can also feel remorse to a limited extent.

Using empathy, they think:

"Yes, this will upset the other person, but that makes it even more fun for me!"

or

"It will upset the person, but they deserve it!"

or

"I've been upset by people before too -- so I don't give a crap"

or

"I know how they'll feel, but my feelings matter more".

or

"This is a desperate situation so it's justified"

or

"I feel kind of guilty about this, but the ends justify the means".


In contrast to a sociopath, psychopaths have less (no) empathy and are more calculating based on their own desire.
Likewise psychopaths feel no remorse.

I realise that a narcissist isn't necessarily a sociopath or a psychopath, but just thought I'd add my two cents worth.

The fact that a narcissist can learn or perceive empathy doesn't mean much to me. It's what they choose to do with that empathy that matters. It almost seems worse that a person can have empathy, and still be cruel to others.



CollegeGirlAnon
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05 May 2021, 8:10 pm

Fnord wrote:
I have my doubts.  Are narcissists being taught empathy, or are they only learning how to mimic empathy?


What kind of empathy?

Emotional or cognitive?

That is my question.


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CollegeGirlAnon
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05 May 2021, 8:12 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Sociopaths do have limited empathy.
The problem is they use the empathy to exploit other people because they don't care.
They can also feel remorse to a limited extent.

Using empathy, they think:

"Yes, this will upset the other person, but that makes it even more fun for me!"

or

"It will upset the person, but they deserve it!"

or

"I've been upset by people before too -- so I don't give a crap"

or

"I know how they'll feel, but my feelings matter more".

or

"This is a desperate situation so it's justified"

or

"I feel kind of guilty about this, but the ends justify the means".


In contrast to a sociopath, psychopaths have less (no) empathy and are more calculating based on their own desire.
Likewise psychopaths feel no remorse.

I realise that a narcissist isn't necessarily a sociopath or a psychopath, but just thought I'd add my two cents worth.

The fact that a narcissist can learn or perceive empathy doesn't mean much to me. It's what they choose to do with that empathy that matters. It almost seems worse that a person can have empathy, and still be cruel to others.


Doesn’t matter to me if someone feels emotional empathy if they still choose to hurt people.

And that does happen.


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IsabellaLinton
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05 May 2021, 8:46 pm

CollegeGirlAnon wrote:
Doesn’t matter to me if someone feels emotional empathy if they still choose to hurt people.

And that does happen.



My point, exactly.



CollegeGirlAnon
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06 May 2021, 10:52 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
CollegeGirlAnon wrote:
Doesn’t matter to me if someone feels emotional empathy if they still choose to hurt people.

And that does happen.



My point, exactly.


And my point is, that even if someone who has an ASD dx says they feel so strongly what someone else feels it does not matter if they are hurtful to me.

Does not matter if they have an ASD or NPD diagnosis/neurotype to me, both can be abusive.

And both neurotypes can learn to think in ways that can be harmful to others, it’s what the individual person chooses to do with that.


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Lunella
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06 May 2021, 11:06 am

They have empathy but it's only for themselves sadly.

There was a study done a while back and one of the main psychologists on the subject thought she cured narcissism but nope, it only lasted for 3 months until they went back to their abusive ways.

There are some good documentaries if you're interested on the subject, it became a special interest for me for many years and I'm part of about 11 narcissism/psychopathy groups cause I just find it an interesting subject as you see the behaviours in day to day life quite frequently.




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CollegeGirlAnon
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06 May 2021, 11:07 am

Lunella wrote:
They have empathy but it's only for themselves sadly.

There was a study done a while back and one of the main psychologists on the subject thought she cured narcissism but nope, it only lasted for 3 months until they went back to their abusive ways.

There are some good documentaries if you're interested on the subject, it became a special interest for me for many years and I'm part of about 11 narcissism/psychopathy groups cause I just find it an interesting subject as you see the behaviours in day to day life quite frequently.





So you know everyone has some level of psychopathy then, right?

And you know that if someone completes Hare’s Psychopathy Checklist (PCL-R) that they will get some kind of score?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy_Checklist


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TriPM Score (Taken 05/22/2021):
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ADHD & ASD diagnosis made in childhood.