Do men dismiss feminism as bad too much?

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kraftiekortie
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23 Jul 2021, 3:13 pm

One person's "up" is another person's "down."

I'd rather marry someone whom I love----even if her socioeconomic status is "below" mind.



funeralxempire
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23 Jul 2021, 3:36 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
One person's "up" is another person's "down."

I'd rather marry someone whom I love----even if her socioeconomic status is "below" mind.


But that's typical of how men are socialized, no?


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kraftiekortie
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23 Jul 2021, 3:40 pm

It's precisely how I feel. It wasn't "indoctrinated" into me by anybody. This is something I, alone, came up with.

I was "socialized" differently. It was implied by my family that they would prefer that I marry someone of my own race-socioeconomic status be damned. I don't believe they would have liked it if I married someone "beneath" me socioeconomically.

It just so happens that my wife was "below" me economically when we got married. However, it also just so happens that, through hard work, she has lots more money, property, and savings than I do. It also just so happens that she is a black Trinidadian.



funeralxempire
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23 Jul 2021, 3:45 pm

It's still within social norms is what I'm getting at. Men aren't encouraged towards trying to find partners better off than they are.


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kraftiekortie
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23 Jul 2021, 3:47 pm

They were not either discouraged not encouraged in my generation.

Nowadays, though, there is the sense that it would delight a family if a man married a woman "equal or above" him in socioeconomic status.



Sweetleaf
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23 Jul 2021, 3:47 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
It's still within social norms is what I'm getting at. Men aren't encouraged towards trying to find partners better off than they are.


It should be fine for anyone regardless of sex/gender to find partners better off than they are if that is what works out for them. But yes current norms do not encourage that.


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funeralxempire
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23 Jul 2021, 3:51 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
It's still within social norms is what I'm getting at. Men aren't encouraged towards trying to find partners better off than they are.


It should be fine for anyone regardless of sex/gender to find partners better off than they are if that is what works out for them. But yes current norms do not encourage that.


Totally agree with the bolded part, but I'd have to close my eyes, plug my ears and hum to not notice the unbolded part.


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Nades
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23 Jul 2021, 5:29 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
They were not either discouraged not encouraged in my generation.

Nowadays, though, there is the sense that it would delight a family if a man married a woman "equal or above" him in socioeconomic status.


I try and aim for equal. If I aim for lower then dating turns into a weird dating of attrition. I stubbornly dig my heels in and think a woman needs to sexually touch me before I consider it and worth of my focus and the women (understandably) wants me to take them to trips to the seaside and cities first before they consider it a relationship but sadly that's how I often end up being exploited myself. Just endless driving to places until 11pm and having 5 hours of sleep and nothing in return.

The woman often ends up legitimately refusing sex because she has been exploited in the past and I end up refusing to leave my own town until she budges with intimacy with her as that's usually were it all starts going wrong for me.

Finding a woman with a job and a car mitigates against that almost entirely for me as they don't have any ulterior motives.



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23 Jul 2021, 6:20 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
One person's "up" is another person's "down."

I'd rather marry someone whom I love----even if her socioeconomic status is "below" mind.

You mean like a zero sum game?


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RetroGamer87
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23 Jul 2021, 6:28 pm

Nades wrote:
Yeah. I can't help but feel misguided feminism will make these types of situations worse. There is a point where not taking crap from a man turns into exploitation of a man. Calling that type of behaviour out is sometimes construed as misogyny.
True but members of both sexes have been doing that (and trying to blame the victim) since long before feminism was invented.


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Sweetleaf
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23 Jul 2021, 7:18 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
It's still within social norms is what I'm getting at. Men aren't encouraged towards trying to find partners better off than they are.


It should be fine for anyone regardless of sex/gender to find partners better off than they are if that is what works out for them. But yes current norms do not encourage that.


Totally agree with the bolded part, but I'd have to close my eyes, plug my ears and hum to not notice the unbolded part.


Well that is just how it seems, I don't agree with it I wish it was more encouraged for people to do what works for them, rather than having it shoved down their throat how they have to be based on their sex or gender. Maybe current norms was not the best way to put it...perhaps outdated norms that should go away would be a better way to say it.


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24 Jul 2021, 8:52 am

My NT husband married "up" (socioeconomic). Although perhaps one could say we are equal in that I am a neurological (and gender in IT) minority while he is a racial minority. Our gender roles are fairly fluid (I clean the gutters, he washes the dishes). We still conform sometimes (I vacuum, he takes the trash out). Being NT, I think it's sometimes more important for him to give the appearance of gender conformity - for example, I am the breadwinner while he is responsible for the children and household, but he has his own side business so he can answer "what do you do?" in a "manly" fashion. I am hopeful that gender roles continue to "soften". After all, I have a fierce daughter and a sensitive son --- I hope with "people-ism" they can thrive as themselves.



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24 Jul 2021, 12:19 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:
Nades wrote:
Yeah. I can't help but feel misguided feminism will make these types of situations worse. There is a point where not taking crap from a man turns into exploitation of a man. Calling that type of behaviour out is sometimes construed as misogyny.
True but members of both sexes have been doing that (and trying to blame the victim) since long before feminism was invented.



Yip. From my past experiences chivalry always seems to lead to exploitation. After a short time you end up having to do favours for their whole family but men are often expected to put up with it somehow.

Reverse the sexes and pretend it's a woman doing all these favours and suddenly the views start to sour. That being said however, I think that many women also have a strong dislike of men being used as personal servants by other women but they don't appear to be vocal about them as much perhaps for fear of confrontation. Ironically the most recent time I figured out I was being taken advantage of was when I woman I was close to said "He will do it for you" (referring to me) without even asking me first. She was immediately met with a "Laura!! !!" by her own aunt.



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29 Jul 2021, 7:09 pm

I think a lot of the modern crowd of "women's rights" is misandrist, though.



StrayCat81
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29 Jul 2021, 8:06 pm

Hollywood_Guy wrote:
I think a lot of the modern crowd of "women's rights" is misandrist, though.

Hard to not be misandrist when one is surrounded by men. Have you ever seen a man who isn't gross and disgusting? :3

While the same can be said for women, at least women tend to be slightly less dangerous.



AquaineBay
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30 Jul 2021, 1:51 pm

StrayCat81 wrote:
Hollywood_Guy wrote:
I think a lot of the modern crowd of "women's rights" is misandrist, though.

Hard to not be misandrist when one is surrounded by men. Have you ever seen a man who isn't gross and disgusting? :3

While the same can be said for women, at least women tend to be slightly less dangerous.

Regardless of what a man or a woman does there is no justification to hate, have contempt or have prejudices against an entire gender. I've met gross men and I've met gross women and to me they are equally disgusting but it's not okay to hate an entire gender just because of what one or a couple of said gender does or did. Also, women can be just as dangerous as men(I have personally witnessed it myself).