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Fnord
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16 Sep 2021, 10:53 am

Aspie1 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
PhosphorusDecree wrote:
... the incel-culture theme of getting trapped in self-referential loops instead of looking at the real world.
... and actually doing something to make themselves more attractive.
Not me! I almost went in for plastic surgery, at age 21, for crying out loud. I was very ugly back then. If plastic surgery isn't "making myself more attractive", then my name is Joe Biden.
You may be only one (or the only) exception.  I had in mind certain individuals who used to frequent this website and derail unrelated threads with seemingly endless stories of loneliness and misery without doing anything to alleviate their situations.


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16 Sep 2021, 11:55 am

ironpony wrote:
ezbzbfcg2 wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Like for example, if a guy was socially awkward or inept, would a woman still want him if he was goodlooking. Or would a woman prefer the guy had social and seduction skills and be average looking?


If a guy was socially awkward or inept, but above-average looking, many women will still find him sexually attractive. He may have a hard time KEEPING a long-term relationship because of his poor social skills. But if his looks are well above passable, he'll have no problem attracting women for sex. I already provided an example of an above-average looking Aspie who gets tons of offers for sex from women. I think you really don't absorb too much information that's posted. You're a little slow or really narrow in what you chose to absord. That's okay.

Now, if a man is average looking, he may have to work harder. However, if he has good social skills, he can probably maintain a relationship longer than a really good looking guy without social skills.

If a man is too ugly to even be given a chance for either sex or a relationship, then all the social skills in the world won't help him. A man doesn't have to be really good looking. But if he's totally ugly (IN THE EYES OF WOMEN), and doesn't pass the basic attraction test, then he doesn't even have a chance, regardless of personality or self-improvement.


But people always say that men are more about looks than women. Yet there are no incel women at all, just male incels. So if it's true that men are more about looks than women, then how come women are rejecting men on their looks, but men are not rejecting women for looks?



If we take Incel to mean a perpetually single person there certainly are women in that situation, maybe not as many but they're out there. And if we take Incel to mean perpetually single guys who subscribe to incel ideology and follow online communities reletated to that, then women probably aren't really welcome in the group so probably aren't any.

I use it to describe the latter, but in this thread seems to gets used both ways.


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kraftiekortie
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16 Sep 2021, 12:37 pm

To me, an "incel" is a person who wants to have sex with another person who fully wants to have sex with the (first) person , but is unable to owing to circumstance. The person is "involuntarily celibate."

An "Incel" is a person who subscribes to a certain specific ideology which is found on the Internet. Being "involuntarily celibate" is but one aspect of that ideology.



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16 Sep 2021, 5:24 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
If we take Incel to mean a perpetually single person there certainly are women in that situation, maybe not as many but they're out there. And if we take Incel to mean perpetually single guys who subscribe to incel ideology and follow online communities reletated to that, then women probably aren't really welcome in the group so probably aren't any.

Trust men who desperately want girlfriends to reject girls :lol:



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PhosphorusDecree
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16 Sep 2021, 5:38 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
If we take Incel to mean a perpetually single person there certainly are women in that situation, maybe not as many but they're out there. And if we take Incel to mean perpetually single guys who subscribe to incel ideology and follow online communities reletated to that, then women probably aren't really welcome in the group so probably aren't any.

Trust men who desperately want girlfriends to reject girls :lol:




There was that whole "fake geek girl" nonsense a few years ago, which left me questioning the sentience of many of my fellow male nerds. So, after years of geek guys complaining that women just don't get our interests, turns out there are actually plenty of nerdesses out there- and these guys angrily try to chase them all away? That is illogical.


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kraftiekortie
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16 Sep 2021, 5:41 pm

I've always found nerd-type girls cute! :heart:



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16 Sep 2021, 6:07 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
If we take Incel to mean a perpetually single person there certainly are women in that situation, maybe not as many but they're out there. And if we take Incel to mean perpetually single guys who subscribe to incel ideology and follow online communities reletated to that, then women probably aren't really welcome in the group so probably aren't any.
.


Incel in modern culture pertains to angry young men who can't get sex, Nobody classifies women who are in a similar predicament (probably because they choose to suffer without complaining).



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16 Sep 2021, 6:36 pm

PhosphorusDecree wrote:
There was that whole "fake geek girl" nonsense a few years ago, which left me questioning the sentience of many of my fellow male nerds. So, after years of geek guys complaining that women just don't get our interests, turns out there are actually plenty of nerdesses out there- and these guys angrily try to chase them all away? That is illogical.

My girlfriend 5 years ago was a major nerd. Her collection of Super Nintendo and Megadrive games rivaled my own and we liked all the same TV shows. I screwed things up with her. My fault. Now I'm in a toxic relationship with a girl who doesn't even like Star Trek!

I can't leave. She paid the deposite on my house so she effectively owns me. I guess I'm the opposite of an incel. Someone who really wants to be single but can't.


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Sweetleaf
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16 Sep 2021, 8:01 pm

PhosphorusDecree wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
If we take Incel to mean a perpetually single person there certainly are women in that situation, maybe not as many but they're out there. And if we take Incel to mean perpetually single guys who subscribe to incel ideology and follow online communities reletated to that, then women probably aren't really welcome in the group so probably aren't any.

Trust men who desperately want girlfriends to reject girls :lol:




There was that whole "fake geek girl" nonsense a few years ago, which left me questioning the sentience of many of my fellow male nerds. So, after years of geek guys complaining that women just don't get our interests, turns out there are actually plenty of nerdesses out there- and these guys angrily try to chase them all away? That is illogical.


I mean a sure way to turn off nerd women is to tell them they aren't welcome having said interests.


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Aspie1
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16 Sep 2021, 8:37 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:
Trust men who desperately want girlfriends to reject girls :lol:

I know that scene and the movie it came from. I always hated that scene! It looks so fake and unrealistic. First off, these guys are so beta, it's cringeworthy: they're unattractive and their social skills are abysmal. Second, there's no way women sexy enough to be Hawaiian Tropic models would want be touched by such lowly betas; it's against nature. Third, even these betas can't possibly be stupid enough not to at least ask if they can be the oil boys, although the models would probably say "ew!! !" and laugh in their faces.

Then again, this movie came out long before the Red Pill existed. So the concept couldn't really be included.



kraftiekortie
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16 Sep 2021, 10:42 pm

These guys are comedic characters who don’t exist in real life.



Sweetleaf
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16 Sep 2021, 10:53 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
These guys are comedic characters who don’t exist in real life.


I was going to say that, like its just a dumb comedy movie...nothing very realistic about it at all.


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17 Sep 2021, 1:42 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
[She paid the deposite on my house so she effectively owns me. I guess I'm the opposite of an incel. Someone who really wants to be single but can't.


:lol: I can relate



ezbzbfcg2
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17 Sep 2021, 4:00 am

PhosphorusDecree wrote:
Some circular logic going on here. Only a physically attractive man can "get girls", so if a man can get girls, he must be physically attractive despite any evidence to the contrary. Only a physically unattractive man can't get girls, so if a man can't get girls, he must be physically unattractive, again despite any evidence to the contrary. This is a theory custom-made to be untestable against reality. If any evidence against it is advanced, you can just pick up the metaphorical goalposts and run like mad. Goes with the incel-culture theme of getting trapped in self-referential loops instead of looking at the real world.


The physical attractiveness of men, as perceived by women, is a spectrum. Really good-looking guys are one extreme, circus freaks are the other. Most men are neither. Most men's overall looks slide down this spectrum until the line between passable and ugly is hit.

Although most men aren't super good-looking, and maybe not even that great looking to women, they are indeed passable. But once the line is crossed into ugly territory, there's no making up for it. And that line comes well before circus freak territory.

I see the parallels with Autism. Rainman is an extreme case of Autism, but there are "higher-functioning" autists who still fall below the NT line. Autism affects them, but since they don't seem as extreme an example of Rain Man, people accuse them of not being autistic.

Same is true for that ugly line. Elephant Man is one extreme case of ugliness. There are men that are further up and not as ugly, but still fall below women's threshold of acceptable attractiveness. Other men can't see it, (different sense of physical attraction) and think these ugly men are still "average" looking. Women have determined otherwise (not women's fault, natural biology, different set of attractiveness).

If a man is above the passable line and struggling with women, he should indeed work on improving himself. If he's playing games all day long, or not showering, etc, but still has the looks, he most certainly can improve. Other men below this threshold will have no such luck, regardless of what they do.

Evidence to the contrary?



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17 Sep 2021, 5:37 am

Aspie1 wrote:
ShadowProphet wrote:
- People say short guys can't get girls yet I know a guy who's 5 ft 2 and asian and his girlfriend is a cute blonde girl around his height.

- A couple in their early thirties used to regularly come to the gym that I go to and I deadlifted with them a couple of times. The girl was a tall blonde around 5 ft 8 with a cute face and nice body. The husband was roughly the same height, was fat with a beer belly, and didn't have the greatest looking face.

- I knew this girl in college who was easily a 10, was a cheerleader for the college football team, and was in a sorority. You'd think she would only date a typical "Chad" a 6 ft tall good looking white guy. Yet she's dating an average looking asian guy roughly her height.

Not all that glitters is gold, especially when it comes to dating. There's a real possibility that these women were looking for a beta male to settle down with, after spending years "partying" with alpha males, and these men seemed tolerable enough. (Most women do it between ages 28 and 36, the age group I stay away from dating-wise.) The college girl is younger than that, unless she's a nontraditional student.) The women don't feel any attraction to their boyfriends; they just want the stability and the good life that a beta male usually provides. They're not attracted to them, they would be to an alpha male. While these men are soaring 10,000 feet above the ground in pure joy, their girlfriends could easily be feeling a low-level revulsion, and maybe a guilty conscience for feeling that way.

For a point of comparison, chew on this. You're backpacking through Europe with a friend or two, and some guy you just met tells you there's a Slovakian hostel, where women lust after geeky American men (read: beta males). Would you eagerly jump on the next train over, or would think to yourself: "hey, wait a minute, something ain't right". :?


Sounds like typical incel garbage to me.



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17 Sep 2021, 8:11 am

Axeman wrote:
Aspie1 wrote:
Not all that glitters is gold, especially when it comes to dating. There's a real possibility that these women were looking for a beta male to settle down with, after spending years "partying" with alpha males, and these men seemed tolerable enough. (Most women do it between ages 28 and 36, the age group I stay away from dating-wise.) The college girl is younger than that, unless she's a nontraditional student.) The women don't feel any attraction to their boyfriends; they just want the stability and the good life that a beta male usually provides. They're not attracted to them, they would be to an alpha male. While these men are soaring 10,000 feet above the ground in pure joy, their girlfriends could easily be feeling a low-level revulsion, and maybe a guilty conscience for feeling that way.

For a point of comparison, chew on this. You're backpacking through Europe with a friend or two, and some guy you just met tells you there's a Slovakian hostel, where women lust after geeky American men (read: beta males). Would you eagerly jump on the next train over, or would think to yourself: "hey, wait a minute, something ain't right".
Sounds like typical Incel garbage to me.
It is.  All of it.

:roll:


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