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Axeman
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23 Sep 2021, 7:53 pm

Aspie1 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
This thread seems to have gone off the rails into personal issues.  Please get back on track or I will ask the mods to lock this thread.  Thank you.
Nobody's attacking nobody! We're not calling each other's names. We're not trashing our opponents. I know I'm not; just because I called myself or another man a beta male doesn't mean I'm trashing them. Being a beta male is as normal and human as being poor; in fact, 80% of men are beta. We're just expressing controversial opinions and uncomfortable truths here, no more, no less.

ironpony wrote:
One thing about this whole incel culture is that there seems to be a lot more male incels than female but why is that? There is the stereotype that guys are more about looks than women, but are they? If any woman can get laid, that means guys will screw anything so to speak.

But if that's true, then are guys really more about looks than women are, stereotypically?
Women are more focused on looks, but are less upfront about it. That is all.


Men are focused on looks. A young pretty woman equals better genes and more babies. Women are more focused on resources. Older men get better at obtaining them. Age is much less of a factor in terms of his fertility.



Axeman
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cyberdad
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23 Sep 2021, 9:13 pm

Aspie1 wrote:
Women are more focused on looks, but are less upfront about it. That is all.


I think we need to stop beating up on women. Both men and women use looks as a primary filter to decide who is a likely partner. All the information suggest men are more driven by looks as more important. For women its only one consideration.

However women can easily live without men and many are either choosing not to get married and/or maintain high standards and date only "high quality men". This means there are many men leftover fighting for an ever shrinking pool of single ladies.



Aspie1
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23 Sep 2021, 9:25 pm

cyberdad wrote:
I think we need to stop beating up on women.
It's not "beating up"; it's biology. Saying that women want only sexy-looking alpha males is like saying that women have breasts and vaginas, and look good in a dress. It doesn't make them good or bad, it just makes them women: the anatomy part is self-explanatory, and a dress is simply more optimized for a woman's body.



cyberdad
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23 Sep 2021, 9:44 pm

Aspie1 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
I think we need to stop beating up on women.
It's not "beating up"; it's biology. Saying that women want only sexy-looking alpha males is like saying that women have breasts and vaginas, and look good in a dress. It doesn't make them good or bad, it just makes them women: the anatomy part is self-explanatory, and a dress is simply more optimized for a woman's body.


We live in an era where women are no longer settling to fulfil their "biological roles" and have the same social opportunities as men.



Aspie1
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23 Sep 2021, 9:55 pm

cyberdad wrote:
We live in an era where women are no longer settling to fulfil their "biological roles" and have the same social opportunities as men.
NOBODY said women had to stay home and raise kids. In fact, I'm glad to see mixed company at work. I just said women had female anatomy and looked good in a dress, and equated that to their choices in men. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.



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24 Sep 2021, 12:22 am

Aspie1 wrote:
I just said women had female anatomy and looked good in a dress, and equated that to their choices in men.


No arguments about female bodies looking good in a dress. Attractive females are attractive to all genders. Not so us men :lol:

However, it's just one dimension. I occasionally watch Kevin Samuels who is a relationship coach. Kevin is a 50 something black man who wears glasses so doesn't meet the looks/age requirement for most younger women.

but he did an experiment (many of his clients are men) on one of his live podcasts where he sat in Starbucks on a Saturday and wore a tailored suit and worked on his laptop while having a coffee. While livestreaming he first had an attractive young mother (half his age) use her daughter as an excuse to chat with Kevin and they started chatting. Turned out she was a divorcee and and she was fawning all over Kevin.

Next two young brunettes who were old enough to be Kevin's daughters come up to him and asked him where he worked? he smiled and said he does "freelance". None of this was set up or paid, he used his charm/personality to engage both and when he told them he was single they swapped mobile numbers and instagram/social media accounts.

Fast forward one week later and he meets both of them at a nightclub and again wore a well tailored suit. They were fawning all over him and left them to talk to his podcast followers - he said his trick is to dress immaculately, groom yourself and wear a really good men's deodorant/aftershave. Couple that with good personality and you tick all the boxes to engage with young women.

His physical appearance, wearing glasses or age were not relevant.



auntblabby
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24 Sep 2021, 12:40 am

there are some of us for which there are hardly any clothing available off the rack which fits us.



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24 Sep 2021, 12:46 am

auntblabby wrote:
there are some of us for which there are hardly any clothing available off the rack which fits us.


I'm not saying its the solution, but putting your best foot forward (including clothes) gives you a fightin chance with the wimmins Blabs...Kevin of course has the bank account to afford expensive clothes but it did resonate with me at highschool that one of the primary reasons girls didn't like a guy was his lack of interest in clothes. Most girls spend 90% of their day on grooming, perfumes, clothes and makeup, Maybe if a below average looking man shows an interest in his grooming/clothes etc then for a girl it might be a big plus over an average-above average looking dude who doesn't care for grooming/clothes.



Muse933277
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24 Sep 2021, 2:07 am

I have known several men who are physically, not that attractive, who are able to get dates and girlfriends with relative ease. Most of these guys have several personality traits in common in that they tend to be naturally funny, witty, charismatic, and have fairly good social skills.

I used to be in a college improv group and some of the men in the club weren't that physically attractive, yet many of them had girlfriends, some even more attractive than themselves. I think it's because the skills that are needed to be good at improv such as being funny, witty, and charismatic, easily translates over to dating. Guys who are good at improv tend to be good with attracting women for this reason.

The reason why many men with autism STRUGGLE with finding romantic partners is because socially and emotionally, we tend to be deficient, and this is ultimately a handicap in the world of dating. We come off as awkward, aloof, introverted, even a bit nerdy, and I think many neurotypical girls are turned off by this behavior. Not all women of course, but I doubt most autistic men are going to be successful with the super attractive party/sorority type of girls who may want the "traditional" good looking and smooth talking guy. These type of women probably wouldn't give your typical aspie guy the time of day.

I feel like aspie men do best with patient/kind/compassionate women who either may be a little different and quirky themselves, or they're able to tolerate it. Religious girls tend to be really nice and this is from my observation; some of the friendliest girls iv'e met were Christian, so maybe aspies should go for these type of girls assuming they're religious as well.



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24 Sep 2021, 2:58 am

rather late for me, i hope in the next life my luck is better.



cyberdad
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24 Sep 2021, 3:52 am

Muse933277 wrote:
Religious girls tend to be really nice and this is from my observation; some of the friendliest girls iv'e met were Christian, so maybe aspies should go for these type of girls assuming they're religious as well.


Christian girls will be your friend. Evangelical ones actually come and talk to me in public and then sell me the idea of coming to their church. But....no nooky...



ezbzbfcg2
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24 Sep 2021, 5:47 am

Muse933277 wrote:
I have known several men who are physically, not that attractive, who are able to get dates and girlfriends...

Even if you think they're physically unattractive, how do you know how women (collectively) perceive their looks? On the converse: the guy you think is good looking may actually be generally seen as ugly in the eyes of most women.

Men struggle big time with this bio-evolutionary reality.



magz
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24 Sep 2021, 5:50 am

"Women collectively".
Sigh.

To be successful in dating, you need to attract a few women, not swarms of them.
To form a happy relationship, you need just one.

You know, I could similarily have been wasting my time complaining that most of men, especially the popular ones, are not attracted to me. That's true. Most of them never were.
But that's not how humans reproduce so stop this "evolutional" burushitu.


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24 Sep 2021, 5:53 am

ezbzbfcg2 wrote:
Even if you think they're physically unattractive, how do you know how women (collectively) perceive their looks? On the converse: the guy you think is good looking may actually be generally seen as ugly in the eyes of most women.

Men struggle big time with this bio-evolutionary reality.
There used to be websites like HotOrNot and FaceTheJury. That's where you could upload your picture, and have people rate it. Men's and women's (no nonbinary gender back then) scores were listed separately.

Wanna know which score women gave me? 3. That's THREE! (Men rated me a 5.)

While that influenced my decision to get plastic surgery, the last straw was a waitress telling her colleague I looked "gross". Then again, I was 21 at the time, still deep in my ugly years. I didn't start to look even slightly better until I was 25 (that's when I got better at meeting women), and it took me until 28 to actually age into my looks.

I'm 38 now. It's only a matter of time until old age takes its toll, and I'm ugly once again. But I don't care at this point.



ezbzbfcg2
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24 Sep 2021, 6:01 am

cyberdad wrote:
I think we need to stop beating up on women.

Pointing out bio-evolutionary differences in perceptions of attractiveness is not "beating up on women." In fairness, I don't think anyone in this thread (recently) has 'beat up on women.' Unless you're saying mentioning women in any fashion automatically equates to 'beating up' on them.

cyberdad wrote:
Both men and women use looks as a primary filter to decide who is a likely partner.

Absolutely!

cyberdad wrote:
All the information suggest men are more driven by looks as more important. For women its only one consideration.

I hate to stereotype, but let's do so for a moment. Although men are stereotyped as being shallow and looks-centric, they're likewise stereotyped as wanting to have sex with any woman that breathes, even if they find her hideous. I'm not saying either stereotype is entirely accurate, but it does seem that men collectively are more willing to settle for women they find ugly. When it comes to sex, men are stereotyped as gladly taking whatever they can get. So, no, even if they say a woman is ugly, stereotypically-speaking, they'll still sleep with her. There is some truth in stereotypes.

Men are more honest and vocal about their desire for good looks, but actions speak louder than words. Action-wise, men seem collectively happy to settle for ugly or sub-par women. Women are the opposite, saying they don't care about looks vocally, but using passable looks as a major factor in selecting a mate.

cyberdad wrote:
However women can easily live without men and many are either choosing not to get married and/or maintain high standards and date only "high quality men". This means there are many men leftover fighting for an ever shrinking pool of single ladies.

I still take a literal approach to the definition of incels (involuntarily celibate) as people (male or female of any age and any belief system) who want sex but can't get it. But if you want to redefine it as what Billy Joel called THE ANGRY YOUNG MAN, then perhaps we need to ask what effect having a larger percentage of ANGRY YOUNG MEN among teenagers/men in their 20s will have for society going forward.

A little over a thousand years ago, there was a shortage of both available farmland and women for wives in Scandinavia. What came of it? The rise of the VIKINGS; effectively a proto-biker gang on a mass scale that went around raping and pillaging. They had little else to live for...



Last edited by ezbzbfcg2 on 24 Sep 2021, 6:16 am, edited 1 time in total.