Do you ever feel guilty for (non-sexually) touching ladies?

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justjelliot
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27 Jun 2011, 12:11 pm

I always had problems at dances and such because I felt so weird touching girls, I mean just hands on waste or back or whatever dance they were doing. I felt like I might be too friendly, the touch wasn't welcomed, I would accidentally brush somewhere I shouldn't, I had no right, I'd make her feel uncomfortable, etc. I always hated dances, and got to where I avoided that. I do well with talking to girls, but I never know when to initiate things. I had never kissed or done any more (unless I was not sober at the time) for the longest time. I figured girls would let me know if they wanted me to kiss them, or anything more than that. I recently learned I was wrong, girls want me to initiate that. What? I think girls should hand me a note with actions that are not ok, and I would take care of doing the other stuff that was ok. Ie, on a date the other night, I could not tell if the girl wanted me to kiss her or if it was ok. I finally said 'Would you be upset if I kissed you?' She said no. I did, and then did again. Anyways, I'm kind of all over the place, but yeah, anyone else feel weird in these kinds of situations?


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SonicMisaki
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27 Jun 2011, 12:13 pm

It depends on the girl's preferences.
You've learned of yet another wonderful reason the human race is so complex.


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justjelliot
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27 Jun 2011, 12:39 pm

SonicMisaki wrote:
It depends on the girl's preferences.
You've learned of yet another wonderful reason the human race is so complex.


Yup.


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izzeme
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27 Jun 2011, 5:04 pm

kinda; i indeed feel fear for touching inappropriatly, so i take care not to touch at all; even though i know this hurts my chances at ever being allowed to touch like that...



justjelliot
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27 Jun 2011, 5:11 pm

izzeme wrote:
kinda; i indeed feel fear for touching inappropriatly, so i take care not to touch at all; even though i know this hurts my chances at ever being allowed to touch like that...


I'm the same way. I fear making a mistake like that. Same way around children. I love kids and work and volunteer with them, but never make physical contact aside from high fives out of fear it could be taken the wrong way.


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27 Jun 2011, 11:21 pm

I don't know if guilty is the right word. If I don't have any bad intentions there is nothing to feel guilty about. Nervous would be a better word. I have been to too many mandatory sexual harassment seminars to not be nervous around a female. It doesn't even take touching, in theory, if she can twist whatever you say into an innuendo no matter how half baked she can get you in trouble. Though in theory, I could do the same to her. Though in theory, it's not just women I need to be worried about, it's everybody. Essentially we are all at each other's mercy. And I don't like being at the mercy of others, that has not worked out well for me in the past.

Me bad at socialization + overzealous rule set ≠ good combination. Solution: Loneliness ≥ Labeled a sexual harasser. Therefore, avoid people.


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28 Jun 2011, 1:11 am

justjelliot wrote:
I figured girls would let me know if they wanted me to kiss them, or anything more than that.


They do, only in a very subtle non-verbal way which essentially amounts to expecting you to know.

justjelliot wrote:
I recently learned I was wrong, girls want me to initiate that. What? I think girls should hand me a note with actions that are not ok, and I would take care of doing the other stuff that was ok. Ie, on a date the other night, I could not tell if the girl wanted me to kiss her or if it was ok.


Girls become quickly annoyed and frustrated with guys who they have to lead around like this. That he can't pick up on these very subtle non-verbal cues she is giving has a lot of negative implications for their relationship and so unfortunately, guys with AS are at a bit of a disadvantage in this arena.

justjelliot wrote:
I finally said 'Would you be upset if I kissed you?'


I think this was the best thing you could have done. Though it's not as romantic and attractive as you just knowing when to kiss her, it's certainly not as unattractive as coming to the point where she frustratedly asked if you are going to kiss her or not, or the moment fizzling. You asking still portrays you in dominant, yet honorable light, which is very positive. You took initiative in the situation, very good.

justjelliot wrote:
She said no. I did, and then did again. Anyways, I'm kind of all over the place, but yeah, anyone else feel weird in these kinds of situations?


Congratulations! To answer your question, everyone goes through a point in life, typically when they are in their teens, that they feel awkward in these new dating situations where they tend to be a bit socially clumsy.



arko5
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28 Jun 2011, 4:09 am

I've heard light touching (say on the arm) can express friendliness, although I'd be way too uncomfortable to ever actually do it. It took me a long time to work out when someone hugs you, you're supposed to hug them back (must have been amusing to onlookers), it always seemed like an invasion of body space to wrap your arms around someone.



justjelliot
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28 Jun 2011, 9:36 am

Chronos wrote:
justjelliot wrote:
I figured girls would let me know if they wanted me to kiss them, or anything more than that.


They do, only in a very subtle non-verbal way which essentially amounts to expecting you to know.

justjelliot wrote:
I recently learned I was wrong, girls want me to initiate that. What? I think girls should hand me a note with actions that are not ok, and I would take care of doing the other stuff that was ok. Ie, on a date the other night, I could not tell if the girl wanted me to kiss her or if it was ok.


Girls become quickly annoyed and frustrated with guys who they have to lead around like this. That he can't pick up on these very subtle non-verbal cues she is giving has a lot of negative implications for their relationship and so unfortunately, guys with AS are at a bit of a disadvantage in this arena.

justjelliot wrote:
I finally said 'Would you be upset if I kissed you?'


I think this was the best thing you could have done. Though it's not as romantic and attractive as you just knowing when to kiss her, it's certainly not as unattractive as coming to the point where she frustratedly asked if you are going to kiss her or not, or the moment fizzling. You asking still portrays you in dominant, yet honorable light, which is very positive. You took initiative in the situation, very good.

justjelliot wrote:
She said no. I did, and then did again. Anyways, I'm kind of all over the place, but yeah, anyone else feel weird in these kinds of situations?


Congratulations! To answer your question, everyone goes through a point in life, typically when they are in their teens, that they feel awkward in these new dating situations where they tend to be a bit socially clumsy.


Haha, yeah, I'm 25. I tend to be doomed to friends zone with nearly every girl I've ever met. They tend to view me as the sweet big brother they never had, so why would they want to ruin such an amazing friendship with a possible failed romance? Add to that the fact that I've never had a real girlfriend, and only dated two girls on more than three occasions, and all the BS NT advice I heard growing up.

How will I know when I'm supposed to make a move? Oh you'll just know. How will I know when x, y, or z is ok? Just feel it out when you get there? How do I feel it out? What's the process of feeling out, and how do I then know what behavior to do based on feeling it out? You're overthinking this. Am I overthinking it or am I just trying to understand? Dude, not cool, this is getting annoying.

The above was said more times than I can remember.


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hale_bopp
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28 Jun 2011, 9:41 am

I do and I'm a woman. They'd probably think I'm a lesbian or something. I just don't do it.



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28 Jun 2011, 9:50 am

justjelliot wrote:
I figured girls would let me know if they wanted me to kiss them, or anything more than that.


This. I do feel bad when I accidently touch women. Just makes me feel bad, because I don't like to be touched myself without being asked before, and for some reason I cannot help but feel that women feel the same. Especially when I touch them.



justjelliot
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28 Jun 2011, 12:58 pm

starryeyedvoyager wrote:
justjelliot wrote:
I figured girls would let me know if they wanted me to kiss them, or anything more than that.


This. I do feel bad when I accidently touch women. Just makes me feel bad, because I don't like to be touched myself without being asked before, and for some reason I cannot help but feel that women feel the same. Especially when I touch them.


Good point. I don't like being touched unless warned or if I'm expecting it. Maybe it's a mind blindness thing, that you and I assume that because we don't like it, everyone else is the same? I don't know.


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Chronos
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29 Jun 2011, 12:40 am

justjelliot wrote:
Chronos wrote:
justjelliot wrote:
I figured girls would let me know if they wanted me to kiss them, or anything more than that.


They do, only in a very subtle non-verbal way which essentially amounts to expecting you to know.

justjelliot wrote:
I recently learned I was wrong, girls want me to initiate that. What? I think girls should hand me a note with actions that are not ok, and I would take care of doing the other stuff that was ok. Ie, on a date the other night, I could not tell if the girl wanted me to kiss her or if it was ok.


Girls become quickly annoyed and frustrated with guys who they have to lead around like this. That he can't pick up on these very subtle non-verbal cues she is giving has a lot of negative implications for their relationship and so unfortunately, guys with AS are at a bit of a disadvantage in this arena.

justjelliot wrote:
I finally said 'Would you be upset if I kissed you?'


I think this was the best thing you could have done. Though it's not as romantic and attractive as you just knowing when to kiss her, it's certainly not as unattractive as coming to the point where she frustratedly asked if you are going to kiss her or not, or the moment fizzling. You asking still portrays you in dominant, yet honorable light, which is very positive. You took initiative in the situation, very good.

justjelliot wrote:
She said no. I did, and then did again. Anyways, I'm kind of all over the place, but yeah, anyone else feel weird in these kinds of situations?


Congratulations! To answer your question, everyone goes through a point in life, typically when they are in their teens, that they feel awkward in these new dating situations where they tend to be a bit socially clumsy.


Haha, yeah, I'm 25. I tend to be doomed to friends zone with nearly every girl I've ever met. They tend to view me as the sweet big brother they never had, so why would they want to ruin such an amazing friendship with a possible failed romance?


I think you need to make your romantic intentions known a little faster and be willing to risk losing the relationship all together. I think a lot of guys would actually sub-consciously linger in the friend zone, not having the relationship they really want, rather than risk not being in her life at all, and I don't think this is fair to guy or the girl.

justjelliot wrote:
Add to that the fact that I've never had a real girlfriend, and only dated two girls on more than three occasions, and all the BS NT advice I heard growing up.

How will I know when I'm supposed to make a move? Oh you'll just know. How will I know when x, y, or z is ok? Just feel it out when you get there? How do I feel it out? What's the process of feeling out, and how do I then know what behavior to do based on feeling it out? You're overthinking this. Am I overthinking it or am I just trying to understand? Dude, not cool, this is getting annoying.


No, you're not over thinking. You are just aware of the fact that you are lacking something that comes naturally to NT's. You might just have to resort to asking if making a move is ok and practicing charismatic and charming ways to do this. For example, "You'll have to forgive me if I'm out of line but...I'd really like to kiss you right now."



Mike_the_EE
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29 Jun 2011, 4:44 am

justjelliot wrote:
I always had problems at dances and such because I felt so weird touching girls, I mean just hands on waste or back or whatever dance they were doing. I felt like I might be too friendly, the touch wasn't welcomed, I would accidentally brush somewhere I shouldn't, I had no right, I'd make her feel uncomfortable, etc. I always hated dances, and got to where I avoided that. I do well with talking to girls, but I never know when to initiate things.


I have the exact same problem. This has ended virtually every potential relationship that I have had. The sensation of touch is so intimate (well, to me anyhow) that I always wait. I guess that they expected a touch sooner and figured that I wasn't interested.


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13 Jun 2021, 8:44 pm

I've been taking social dance lessons since about 2004. And dancing is a contact sport, after all. So it desensitized me to platonic/social touch with women pretty well. Today, if I'm at a party or in a dance-centric venue, I think nothing of inviting the nearest friendly-looking woman to dance with me. And most react pretty well: their either go along with it or they politely refuse the dance.

So no, I don't feel guilty at all. When dancing, I respect the boundaries and follow the etiquette. Outside of dancing, unless I'm hugging a friend, giving a high-five to a teammate, or shaking hands with someone I just met, the most I do when it comes to touching women is a shoulder tap.



Mike_the_EE
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15 Jun 2021, 6:18 pm

Holy necro-bump Batman! This thread has been lying dead for 10 years!! !


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