article on the difference between wanting and entitlement

Page 1 of 4 [ 55 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Aaendi
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 31 Aug 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 363

17 Nov 2015, 4:17 am

https://emmatheemo.wordpress.com/2013/0 ... eguy-hate/

I'm surprised that something so basic as this, has to be explained in great detail, for such a big chunk of the population.



The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 30,883
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

17 Nov 2015, 4:36 am

Image



Venger
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,519

17 Nov 2015, 5:05 am

I actually wonder if the word "entitled" is complete sarcasm in this context. Seems like a guy only gets called that if he doesn't get what he claims to want after complaining about it(strong evidence that he isn't entitled, despite what he thinks).



LeelaLeela
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Age: 941
Posts: 27

17 Nov 2015, 8:30 am

Not fond of that. To me, wanting sex [or anything] is one thing. You can want whatever the hell you want, it's your prerogative... wanting isn't an issue because it doesn't involve an action .

"I'm a good person and want a relationship, so will look for one" seems reasonable.

"I am in shape, hygienic, gainfully employed, possession of many expensive/stylish sweaters and looking for a commitment, everything girls say they want, yet no girl will date me... and those same damn girls date poor college guys, my classmates, are upfront about not looking for anything serious and who wear tacky, ratty t-shirts and are so broke they drink nothing but PBR. Waaaaah! Women are evil, deserve hot college girls, my classmates don't, women are shallow and evil for refusing to date ME. I'm entitled to girls, it's unfair they deprive me of the sex I feel I deserve" is unreasonable. Way over-entitled.

I don't think anybody's entitled to anything besides civility (politeness stops the world from descending into anarchy) from anybody else, ever. Certainly, nobody is ever entitled to anybody else's body. Ever.



Venger
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,519

17 Nov 2015, 9:37 am

^^
Just wait until that hypothetical guy in your story actually does get-laid. Then he probably really will feel "entitled". Meaning he'll want more-more-more of it and very soon just cause he's gotten it b4.

He now has actual evidence(not proof) to back-up his entitlement-belief. Whereas before he had none.



hurtloam
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Mar 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,203
Location: Eyjafjallajökull

17 Nov 2015, 4:11 pm

Jessica Valenti is a nutcase though. Her own shadow would offend her.

I think that unfortunately the Jessica's of the world only meet the chaps she writes about after the man has been through several years of frustration and trying and failing. She meets the angry guy that is at the end of his tether. If she'd met him 5 years or so before he would have been more optomistic and less frustrated. Plus women like her probably didn't have the same social issues and can't understand at all what it's like to think you are doing things right, but then find out what you are doing is actually repelling other people.

She has no idea.



marshall
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,752
Location: Turkey

18 Nov 2015, 12:06 am

LeelaLeela wrote:
I don't think anybody's entitled to anything besides civility (politeness stops the world from descending into anarchy) from anybody else, ever. Certainly, nobody is ever entitled to anybody else's body. Ever.

I think it takes a bit more the civility and politeness to keep the world from falling apart. I wonder whatever happened to the idea of loving your neighbor. Why can't anyone devote energy to that instead of all the energy that goes into constantly bitching.



marshall
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,752
Location: Turkey

18 Nov 2015, 12:26 am

My problem with the feminists attacking "nice guys" is that it's transparent bullying and hypocrisy. They like to claim they are only attacking guys who are really NOT nice guys, not simply any guy who has ever expressed frustration. The problem is the way they word things they clearly are attacking the latter. According to their logic any complaining over feeling left out in the cold in terms of finding love or intimacy is evidence of "entitlement" (based on their bizarre definition) and misogyny. I've never been able to follow their reasoning.

Because their attack hits so broadly it seems transparent that they're just swinging at low hanging fruit. Instead of attacking those who really are as*holes, they attack those lowest on the social totem pole. They do it because it feels good to attack where they know they can actually inflict pain. No damn is given whether the target is the one actually deserving the attack. It's like if I decided to go and kick the dog because I was mad at an abusive relative. And they call themselves "social justice warriors". It's also highly offensive that they merely assume the "nice guy" always wants their body and nothing more.



The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 30,883
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

18 Nov 2015, 2:18 am

LeelaLeela wrote:
I don't think anybody's entitled to anything besides civility (politeness stops the world from descending into anarchy) from anybody else, ever. Certainly, nobody is ever entitled to anybody else's body. Ever.


Then apply what you preach, be polite and leave sly alone.



LeelaLeela
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Age: 941
Posts: 27

18 Nov 2015, 2:54 am

marshall wrote:
LeelaLeela wrote:
I don't think anybody's entitled to anything besides civility (politeness stops the world from descending into anarchy) from anybody else, ever. Certainly, nobody is ever entitled to anybody else's body. Ever.

I think it takes a bit more the civility and politeness to keep the world from falling apart. I wonder whatever happened to the idea of loving your neighbor. Why can't anyone devote energy to that instead of all the energy that goes into constantly bitching.


Yes, that's preferable but the bare-bones minimum required by the social contract is civility. Having friends, finding a relationship, is gravy (read: effectively earned by being nice or fun or loyal or good company or whatevet).



marshall
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,752
Location: Turkey

18 Nov 2015, 3:27 am

LeelaLeela wrote:
marshall wrote:
LeelaLeela wrote:
I don't think anybody's entitled to anything besides civility (politeness stops the world from descending into anarchy) from anybody else, ever. Certainly, nobody is ever entitled to anybody else's body. Ever.

I think it takes a bit more the civility and politeness to keep the world from falling apart. I wonder whatever happened to the idea of loving your neighbor. Why can't anyone devote energy to that instead of all the energy that goes into constantly bitching.

Yes, that's preferable but the bare-bones minimum required by the social contract is civility. Having friends, finding a relationship, is gravy (read: effectively earned by being nice or fun or loyal or good company or whatevet).

You fall right in with the callus modern cynicism that is destroying this world. That view simply ignores human nature completely.



Outrider
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Age: 23
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,007
Location: Australia

18 Nov 2015, 5:35 am

LeelaLeela:

What about the guy who is doing all the right things to be as physically and mentally attractive as possible, but is still failing and is simply venting his frustrations (which is healthy as not only do human beings feel these emotions but it's better than bottling it up).

Imho:

Entitled = I deserve women no matter what.

Not entitled = I'm doing all the right things, but still not seeing any results. It's not women's fault, and I'm not angry at those that are considered 'less attractive' by social/cultural standards, but just frustrated.

Thing is, it takes time, dedication, effort and money not just in relationships, but life in general. And if you use all these things in your life and still find no results, it's natural to feel frustrated.

Compare getting a relationship to getting a job.

Entitled = I deserve a job no matter what. Even if I don't have the right qualification I am an extremely friendly person so the job should be mine.

Not entitled = I work hard, I have the correct degree, I have the necessary skills required for the job, I'm extremely friendly and easy to work with, I respect authority, etc. yet I still don't have the job. I've applied to many, many places in my field and yet it's been two years.

People have every right to feel angry or frustrated over lack of success sometimes.

So, a successful social life is earned by being a nice, good and interesting, positive person? Well, some of us are all of those things, yet we still have a tiny number of friends while a large number of 'a55høles' congregate together and are all magnetized to each other.

My ex-girlfriend is a wonderful example. She was extremely selfish, over-dramatic, would always take things the wrong way, extremely aggressive, and overall an absolutely hateable person. Yet me, a caring, kind, compassionate guy she was the best I could do, and yet she manages to get a new boyfriend/relationship (a 21 year old in fact) 3 DAYS after we broke up.

Should I really never ever feel annoyed bullsh*t like this happens in the world? Do I feel entitled to a woman/happy relationship? No, not at all. But when any old deadbeat criminal thief hobo redneck bogan grubby drug-addict G.I. skinny man can go through dozens of good relationships while even the most attractive of aspies can't, then there's clearly a problem here.

Maybe it's just 'life is unfair'. Though the world doesn't become more fair if we just ignore the issue and continue to live a life being treated unfairly. Life is unfair, sure, but whoeever said we can't MAKE it fair? And how do we do that?

By consistently deciding to be polite, helpful, kind, selfess, considerate, compassionate people in this world that tolerate and care for others.

I completely agree with Marshall on this one. Life's unfair and that sucks, and it's the reason why some people are so happy through no effort while other people who really are trying are so miserable.

Instead of criticizing people who complain life is unfair and basically telling them to shut up, why don't we give them some constructive criticism - by asking them 'Life's unfair, but what are YOU going to DO about it?'

Once more people learn to do this, perhaps the world would be a much better place.



The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 30,883
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

18 Nov 2015, 5:46 am

Katy is the kind of person who closes her ears so hard and sings "LA LA LA LA I DON'T HEAR YOU".

She feels so entitled to her 'right' of bitchy behavior :p.



Nocturnus
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 22 Jun 2015
Posts: 354
Location: England

18 Nov 2015, 6:01 am

Altruism isn't always important in a Darwinian society to have successful relationships, in fact being good isn't a requirement to get what you want in life. Being good or selfless should be a reward in itself and not a vehicle to personal gain.

Social power and leverage are far more important than altruism when it comes to relationships.



Aaendi
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 31 Aug 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 363

18 Nov 2015, 6:03 am

marshall wrote:
My problem with the feminists attacking "nice guys" is that it's transparent bullying and hypocrisy. They like to claim they are only attacking guys who are really NOT nice guys, not simply any guy who has ever expressed frustration. The problem is the way they word things they clearly are attacking the latter. According to their logic any complaining over feeling left out in the cold in terms of finding love or intimacy is evidence of "entitlement" (based on their bizarre definition) and misogyny. I've never been able to follow their reasoning.

Because their attack hits so broadly it seems transparent that they're just swinging at low hanging fruit. Instead of attacking those who really are as*holes, they attack those lowest on the social totem pole. They do it because it feels good to attack where they know they can actually inflict pain. No damn is given whether the target is the one actually deserving the attack. It's like if I decided to go and kick the dog because I was mad at an abusive relative. And they call themselves "social justice warriors". It's also highly offensive that they merely assume the "nice guy" always wants their body and nothing more.


What I find the most irritating is that being "nice" or "mean" are both wrong to them.
nice = submissive, desperate, unassertive, no confidence
mean = bitter, misogynist, woman hater, rapist



Cockroach96
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Age: 25
Posts: 3,162
Location: Romania

18 Nov 2015, 6:05 am

It's a pity most people confuse desire and entitlement. There's a thin line between them though.


_________________
I'm a Romanian aspie.