Should parents teach boys on the spectrum how to date?

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Chronos
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23 Dec 2017, 1:39 am

In our informal society with not much in the way of formal courtship rituals, should parents of boys on the spectrum specifically teach them social skills and rules as pertains to dating and relationships? It seems to me that parents neglect these things.



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23 Dec 2017, 3:01 am

Parents should teach all their children how to date. Teach boys how to get a date, how to treat women.
Teach girls how to realise who is a good man, who's not. Not only children on the spectrum.
Dating counts as life skill I guess so parents should teach , yes.



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23 Dec 2017, 3:10 am

Well some parents cling to the idea of children and may hamper their ability to become independent.


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Sabreclaw
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23 Dec 2017, 3:12 am

I don't see how that's the parents' responsibility. Also, why only boys? Why not girls?



Chronos
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23 Dec 2017, 3:19 am

Sabreclaw wrote:
I don't see how that's the parents' responsibility. Also, why only boys? Why not girls?


Because the significant majority of posts of anguish over obtaining a mate...or rather the inability to do so, even when adjusted for the relative scarcity of females on the spectrum (diagnosed or otherwise), are from males.



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23 Dec 2017, 3:28 am

It’s not difficult to find tools and resources to learn from yourself. I would have been mortified if my parents did so, and I’m sure most people would feel the same.



Chronos
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23 Dec 2017, 3:34 am

hale_bopp wrote:
It’s not difficult to find tools and resources to learn from yourself. I would have been mortified if my parents did so, and I’m sure most people would feel the same.


Just to clarify. I don't mean teach them how to initiate sex or anything like that. I mean how to approach, express interest, determine interest, and grow a relationship. For example, when my grandparents were young there were specific ways to go about these things. Coronet Instructional Films (regarded as corny by modern standards, and often mocked and satired, but still has good information) made a number of films about the do's and don'ts of dating which can be found on Youtube today.



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23 Dec 2017, 3:50 am

Chronos wrote:
hale_bopp wrote:
It’s not difficult to find tools and resources to learn from yourself. I would have been mortified if my parents did so, and I’m sure most people would feel the same.


Just to clarify. I don't mean teach them how to initiate sex or anything like that. I mean how to approach, express interest, determine interest, and grow a relationship. For example, when my grandparents were young there were specific ways to go about these things. Coronet Instructional Films (regarded as corny by modern standards, and often mocked and satired, but still has good information) made a number of films about the do's and don'ts of dating which can be found on Youtube today.


It helps if the parents know, half of them probably don’t.



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23 Dec 2017, 3:55 am

If they can help they could give advice.
I'm not sure how much most parents could help. Some may be too different to their sons and don't understand their struggles, or are too similar to them and don't really have a clue either.
Some autistic guys also have problems they may have to address first. Not so many on this forum, but if someone neither has a job nor an education and is in his late 20s or older and generally doesn't have (m)any adult responsibilities the best dating-advice might not help much - unless maybe if he can find and is willing to date a woman in the same situation as his.



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23 Dec 2017, 1:03 pm

No. Absolutely not. All children should be taught mutual respect for the sexes. Dating should be abandoned in favor of chaperoned courtship strictly between families that know and approve of each other. And if children INSIST on going off the rails, parents should restrict funding their educational and career aspirations. I’m paying for your practical learning, NOT your social life.

At the appropriate TIME, though, YES, parents should support young couples, gently guide them towards marriage, and help them navigate the first years of marriage and childbearing. There’s not exactly an accurate manual for handling romance through baby-making, and I’d have preferred someone helping me understand how best to relate to women, start a family, etc. As it is, I’m making this up as I go and praying I don’t make things a bigger mess than they already are.



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23 Dec 2017, 4:11 pm

NorthWind wrote:
If they can help they could give advice.
I'm not sure how much most parents could help. Some may be too different to their sons and don't understand their struggles, or are too similar to them and don't really have a clue either.
Some autistic guys also have problems they may have to address first. Not so many on this forum, but if someone neither has a job nor an education and is in his late 20s or older and generally doesn't have (m)any adult responsibilities the best dating-advice might not help much - unless maybe if he can find and is willing to date a woman in the same situation as his.

Guys like me. Dating advice doesn’t help. I’m just to short(lacking requirements) to ride that ride(relationship). Women in my situation don’t exist orndate up. I wish women dated down like men do. :(

I was raised by women who know nothing about dating from a mans side so their teaching would and was useless. If anything they make me less appealing to women by making me more a woman’s “ideal” man which in reality is quite unattractive to what women really want.



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24 Dec 2017, 3:08 am

sly279 wrote:
Guys like me. Dating advice doesn’t help. I’m just to short(lacking requirements) to ride that ride(relationship). Women in my situation don’t exist orndate up. I wish women dated down like men do. :(

The things I said are not really true for you (the person(s) I was thinking of are not on this forum). So, I'm not gonna say much to this as I have no idea how much or little chance there is for your situation to change.

sly279 wrote:
I was raised by women who know nothing about dating from a mans side so their teaching would and was useless. If anything they make me less appealing to women by making me more a woman’s “ideal” man which in reality is quite unattractive to what women really want.

Yes, a lot of parents don't/can't really help with dating advice and the advice can be counterproductive.



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24 Dec 2017, 7:23 am

AngelRho wrote:
No. Absolutely not. All children should be taught mutual respect for the sexes. Dating should be abandoned in favor of chaperoned courtship strictly between families that know and approve of each other. And if children INSIST on going off the rails, parents should restrict funding their educational and career aspirations. I’m paying for your practical learning, NOT your social life.


Wait so you would want everyone to return to the old way of young people marrying someone their parents introduce them to and approve off? And threaten them with cutting them off from the family if they fall in love with someone who isn't in their parents' inner circle? Or just not helping them financially if they do that, but not abandoning them? The second option is probably closer to what you meant, or so I hope.

Either way, I think that is disgusting. If two people decide together that a marriage is a "good deal" in financial sense or something then that's fine, but other than that marriage should be about love. Mutual love between both people; parents or any relatives shouldn't have a say in it... of course, if you know someone you think would be a good spouse for your child it's perfectly fine to introduce them to each other, but trying to press them in to marriage... ew, just ew.

I suppose I'm just taking things too literally and drawing conclusions from the things I've heard other people, who seem to think more or less the same way as you, say. You don't seem like a bad person after all... and this is probably about cultural differences, too.



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24 Dec 2017, 9:00 am

Fireblossom wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
No. Absolutely not. All children should be taught mutual respect for the sexes. Dating should be abandoned in favor of chaperoned courtship strictly between families that know and approve of each other. And if children INSIST on going off the rails, parents should restrict funding their educational and career aspirations. I’m paying for your practical learning, NOT your social life.


Wait so you would want everyone to return to the old way of young people marrying someone their parents introduce them to and approve off? And threaten them with cutting them off from the family if they fall in love with someone who isn't in their parents' inner circle? Or just not helping them financially if they do that, but not abandoning them? The second option is probably closer to what you meant, or so I hope.

Either way, I think that is disgusting. If two people decide together that a marriage is a "good deal" in financial sense or something then that's fine, but other than that marriage should be about love. Mutual love between both people; parents or any relatives shouldn't have a say in it... of course, if you know someone you think would be a good spouse for your child it's perfectly fine to introduce them to each other, but trying to press them in to marriage... ew, just ew.

I suppose I'm just taking things too literally and drawing conclusions from the things I've heard other people, who seem to think more or less the same way as you, say. You don't seem like a bad person after all... and this is probably about cultural differences, too.

I meant it literally.

Younger people are ruled more by blind emotion. Part of what makes Hollywood romance so sweet is its impulsivity. Love without any care given to consequences.

The problem for me is marriage binds entire FAMILIES. Kids for the past few generations are taught to marry “for love.” They aren’t taught about how it links two families, nor are they taught to care about what implications it has for their respective families.

Nobody taught ME this stuff, either. I had to figure it out on my own. Certain girls I chose to spend my time with were the source of much angst for my mom. I managed to talk my mom into giving my longest-running relationship an honest chance only to figure out the hard way my fiancée really hated my mom more so than the other way around. When that relationship ended, the more my mom got to know my gf’s parents, the more she became a good predictor of how long my relationships would last—or more like WHETHER they would last. She absolutely adored my wife and her family. The two became inseparable. I couldn’t figure out if I had a gf or a new sister. WEEEEEIRD. But it worked out amazingly well. Her family was AWESOME, too, and I only wish I’d had more time to spend with all of them.

Anyway, I don’t think young people realize how disrespectful it really is to invade other families and force unions on them they don’t really want—and aren’t really good for THEM, either.

On the other hand, if you have families that already know each other well, actually like each other, don’t mind joining together, and their kids “just happen” to pair up... That I could live with.

You should love the person you eventually marry. There’s always a lot of emotion involved. But the person you have feeeeeeelings for and the person’s family may not really be what’s best for you in the long run. Take some time to set emotions aside and THINK about whether it’s best for EVERYONE involved.

I also firmly believe in families providing a support system for young couples. It’s easy to run into trouble early on. My wife and I both worked for divorce lawyers at different times. I think we saw one couple file for divorce after 3 months. THREE MONTHS??? REALLY??? Geez, where were the parents when all this was going on? Oh wait, they stayed out of the way because their kids were in looooooove.

I’d do what I could to keep them together. If my daughter walks out because of some minor disagreement, I’m sending her back and I’m changing the locks on the door. Work it the freak out. I’ll call her husband’s folks and we’ll stage an intervention. SOMETHING. Whatever it takes. You loved each other enough to get married. Now love each other enough to stay that way.

I get that there are life-threatening situations, cheating, and other things that make divorce necessary. But “falling out of love” just doesn’t cut it. Trivial issues that everyone has to learn to deal with don’t cut it. You took vows for a reason. Make those vows mean something.

I’m only assuming the worst for the sake of argument, btw. Every marriage has unique challenges. I grew up in a house where mom and dad screamed at each other every night and I got hit with a belt not knowing what I did wrong half the time. I do believe in using physical punishment, but I have a much different vision for it than my dad. It is seldom used in my house anymore. We don’t yell at each other or our children. We all have our share of problems, sometimes with each other, and we TALK ABOUT IT, we work things out, and we often work on stopping things before they even become problems.

If there is ANY way I can possibly give my children the same solid foundation for successful educational, career, marriage, and family life, I’ll do everything I possibly can.

As to cutting kids off... It’s a matter of principle. I believe loans are a form of slavery. If my kid needs me to co-sign a student loan and later defaults, I’m stuck. If not, he’s saddled with debt for a large part of his life. I’m not selling my kids into slavery.

Why slavery? Because once he graduates, he has to give a large part of his paycheck back to the bank, which means he’s working in part for free. Free labor=slave.

People also don’t value money that’s not theirs. Whether he gets a loan or I help fund it, how much of that is going to alcohol, frat parties, and dating? I want his nose in the books, not working on his social life or activism. I’m not paying for him to waste time and money. So if I’m going to help, I’m going to see positive results. Else, he’s on his own.



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24 Dec 2017, 10:03 am

AngelRho wrote:
Fireblossom wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
No. Absolutely not. All children should be taught mutual respect for the sexes. Dating should be abandoned in favor of chaperoned courtship strictly between families that know and approve of each other. And if children INSIST on going off the rails, parents should restrict funding their educational and career aspirations. I’m paying for your practical learning, NOT your social life.


Wait so you would want everyone to return to the old way of young people marrying someone their parents introduce them to and approve off? And threaten them with cutting them off from the family if they fall in love with someone who isn't in their parents' inner circle? Or just not helping them financially if they do that, but not abandoning them? The second option is probably closer to what you meant, or so I hope.

Either way, I think that is disgusting. If two people decide together that a marriage is a "good deal" in financial sense or something then that's fine, but other than that marriage should be about love. Mutual love between both people; parents or any relatives shouldn't have a say in it... of course, if you know someone you think would be a good spouse for your child it's perfectly fine to introduce them to each other, but trying to press them in to marriage... ew, just ew.

I suppose I'm just taking things too literally and drawing conclusions from the things I've heard other people, who seem to think more or less the same way as you, say. You don't seem like a bad person after all... and this is probably about cultural differences, too.

I meant it literally.

Younger people are ruled more by blind emotion. Part of what makes Hollywood romance so sweet is its impulsivity. Love without any care given to consequences.

The problem for me is marriage binds entire FAMILIES. Kids for the past few generations are taught to marry “for love.” They aren’t taught about how it links two families, nor are they taught to care about what implications it has for their respective families.

Nobody taught ME this stuff, either. I had to figure it out on my own. Certain girls I chose to spend my time with were the source of much angst for my mom. I managed to talk my mom into giving my longest-running relationship an honest chance only to figure out the hard way my fiancée really hated my mom more so than the other way around. When that relationship ended, the more my mom got to know my gf’s parents, the more she became a good predictor of how long my relationships would last—or more like WHETHER they would last. She absolutely adored my wife and her family. The two became inseparable. I couldn’t figure out if I had a gf or a new sister. WEEEEEIRD. But it worked out amazingly well. Her family was AWESOME, too, and I only wish I’d had more time to spend with all of them.

Anyway, I don’t think young people realize how disrespectful it really is to invade other families and force unions on them they don’t really want—and aren’t really good for THEM, either.

On the other hand, if you have families that already know each other well, actually like each other, don’t mind joining together, and their kids “just happen” to pair up... That I could live with.

You should love the person you eventually marry. There’s always a lot of emotion involved. But the person you have feeeeeeelings for and the person’s family may not really be what’s best for you in the long run. Take some time to set emotions aside and THINK about whether it’s best for EVERYONE involved.

I also firmly believe in families providing a support system for young couples. It’s easy to run into trouble early on. My wife and I both worked for divorce lawyers at different times. I think we saw one couple file for divorce after 3 months. THREE MONTHS??? REALLY??? Geez, where were the parents when all this was going on? Oh wait, they stayed out of the way because their kids were in looooooove.

I’d do what I could to keep them together. If my daughter walks out because of some minor disagreement, I’m sending her back and I’m changing the locks on the door. Work it the freak out. I’ll call her husband’s folks and we’ll stage an intervention. SOMETHING. Whatever it takes. You loved each other enough to get married. Now love each other enough to stay that way.

I get that there are life-threatening situations, cheating, and other things that make divorce necessary. But “falling out of love” just doesn’t cut it. Trivial issues that everyone has to learn to deal with don’t cut it. You took vows for a reason. Make those vows mean something.

I’m only assuming the worst for the sake of argument, btw. Every marriage has unique challenges. I grew up in a house where mom and dad screamed at each other every night and I got hit with a belt not knowing what I did wrong half the time. I do believe in using physical punishment, but I have a much different vision for it than my dad. It is seldom used in my house anymore. We don’t yell at each other or our children. We all have our share of problems, sometimes with each other, and we TALK ABOUT IT, we work things out, and we often work on stopping things before they even become problems.

If there is ANY way I can possibly give my children the same solid foundation for successful educational, career, marriage, and family life, I’ll do everything I possibly can.

As to cutting kids off... It’s a matter of principle. I believe loans are a form of slavery. If my kid needs me to co-sign a student loan and later defaults, I’m stuck. If not, he’s saddled with debt for a large part of his life. I’m not selling my kids into slavery.

Why slavery? Because once he graduates, he has to give a large part of his paycheck back to the bank, which means he’s working in part for free. Free labor=slave.

People also don’t value money that’s not theirs. Whether he gets a loan or I help fund it, how much of that is going to alcohol, frat parties, and dating? I want his nose in the books, not working on his social life or activism. I’m not paying for him to waste time and money. So if I’m going to help, I’m going to see positive results. Else, he’s on his own.


The "binds families together" -thing is probably the root of our disagreement... you see, the way I see it is that a marriage is a deal between two people, not two families. I mean yes, two families will be "tied" to each other on paper, but that's it. Being related to someone doesn't mean you have to like them or even interract with them. Also, while it is good to listen to advice from one's parents, I don't think it's good idea to make desicions solely based on what parents/society/rest of the family thinks. People need to learn to think for themselves and find their own path to happiness, even if it's one that their parents don't agree with.

You do have a good attitude with money though; I'd probably do the same.

A curious guestion to the end; since you seem to be serious about your religion, what would be your reaction if your child got in to a serious relationship with an atheist or someone who serves different god/gods than you? If the religion was his/her only visible, big "fault" would you give that person a chance or would you judge the relationship straight out just because their religious views don't meet yours?



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24 Dec 2017, 12:32 pm

I think parents should teach their autistic sons what is and isn't appropriate to say to a woman you are interested in. They also need to be taught not to complement other women in front of their wife or girlfriend. They also need to be taught how to tell when a woman isn't interested in them.