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funeralxempire
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09 Oct 2021, 12:01 pm

I wonder how much of this comes from poor examples of relationships being modelled, how much is trauma from bad experiences in relationships and how much is just entitlement and misogyny influencing some men's views of straight relationships.


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09 Oct 2021, 12:01 pm

Axeman wrote:
Rexi wrote:
Axeman wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Usually, it’s the man who has to sleep on the couch :)

I never heard of a man forcing a woman to sleep on the couch after an argument.


Damn I thought this a dead thread.

From 7 oct to 9 oct, means 2 days.
Not long enough. Still prolly has 8 lives to go.
The more the owner and admin threaten to close it, the more the value of posts increase. Maybe just incelness is an exciting topic, and we are all relationship freaks because we have a hard time with them.


Aspie1 needs mental help imo.

He can be very polite, but maybe he is a bit pessimistic about what a man like himself can accomplish and give to the other person. In my own way, I share this issue. It's not a feeling that's too pleasant.


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09 Oct 2021, 12:06 pm

Rexi wrote:
Even if that were universally true, which it isn't and which is why counselling exists, because the issues you talk about need helped and can be helped, it sounds a little selfish that one would want to be the happy one. In general this pattern is easy to fall into, each to satisfy their needs and get very defensive with challenges and issues. Turning this point to each taking care of the other is more balanced, rids of a lot of tension but it's not complete until it becomes natural and not something to "have to do".
Funny how you said "counseling". All marriage the\rapists automatically take the wife's side, just like all family the\rapists take the parents' side. Case in point: when I told my the\rapist how my parents were emotionally abusing me, she either mocked me or pretended not to know what I'm talking about. Similarly, a marriage the\rapist will just berate me for "not understanding my wife's needs", ESPECIALLY if the marriage the\rapist is a woman, and even male marriage the\rapists are cringeworthy white knights.

It's not that I don't want my wife to be happy. It's just that when only one person in a marriage can be happy, I choose myself. Putting myself first is a skill that took me decades to learn, because my family constantly told me I'm worthless and should put myself last. Also, feminism guarantees my wife's happiness at the expense of mine, so I refuse to go along with it.

funeralxempire wrote:
I wonder how much of this comes from poor examples of relationships being modelled, how much is trauma from bad experiences in relationships and how much is just entitlement and misogyny influencing some men's views of straight relationships.
The trauma come from two things. The first and very severe one is watching my parents argue constantly, to the point of throwing objects across the room, until the day I moved out. The second and much milder one is my first girlfriend, who was extremely boring and unattractive. Being with her felt like tedious and unfun; she didn't like museums, artsy neighborhoods, quirky restaurants, or other outings, although she did go to an on-campus dance with me. I only stayed with her because I felt no other girl would like me.


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Last edited by Aspie1 on 09 Oct 2021, 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Rexi
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09 Oct 2021, 12:12 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Aspie1 wrote:
Rexi wrote:
Thats really unhealthy. There are things that happen beyond the "apparent" peacefulness. She shuts down in that moment, she doesn't respect him.

It's the same thing as when people use shock collars on dogs. They shut down and behave but it creates disbalance daily. As opposed to when you understand the animal and fulfill its needs where everyone ends up being happy and balanced, the dog and the family..
That's true on paper. But in today's marriages, only one person at a time can be happy: the husband OR the wife, not both. It's like living with your parents as a child: either they get power over you OR you get freedom, but both can't happen at the same time. Also, feminism dictates that only the wife deserves happiness, while the husband must work himself to exhaustion to provide it. So if you want to be happy---or at least tolerably content---in your marriage, you gotta FIGHT for it; it doesn't come automatically, like it did in 1950's.


Lol I guess I am doing it wrong then, I guess I better stop trying to be an enhancement to my boyfriends life and start being a nightmare than? we've lived together 5 years and could end up married. So I better start practicing being the perfect wife dictator, and quit cleaning up around the apartment when he's at work...because he should do all the cleaning and money making :roll:

Like seriously what you describe sounds like a toxic relationship from fictional 90's movies, not really a super typical real life thing.

That sounds like all's fair in love and war rather than anything else. Make love not war? Love is not naivity and we don't have to be pessimistic in order to be realistic. I suppose I'm not the only one scared shitless of love. How can something so bad be so good? And vice versa.


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Rexi
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09 Oct 2021, 12:16 pm

Aspie1 wrote:
Rexi wrote:
Even if that were universally true, which it isn't and which is why counselling exists, because the issues you talk about need helped and can be helped, it sounds a little selfish that one would want to be the happy one. In general this pattern is easy to fall into, each to satisfy their needs and get very defensive with challenges and issues. Turning this point to each taking care of the other is more balanced, rids of a lot of tension but it's not complete until it becomes natural and not something to "have to do".
Funny how you said "counseling". All marriage the\rapists automatically take the wife's side, just like all family the\rapists take the parents' side. Case in point: when I told my the\rapist how my parents were emotionally abusing me, she either mocked me or pretended not to know what I'm talking about. Similarly, a marriage the\rapist will just berate me for "not understanding my wife's needs", ESPECIALLY if the marriage the\rapist is a woman, and even male marriage the\rapists are cringeworthy white knights.

It's not that I don't want my wife to be happy. It's just that when only one person in a marriage can be happy, I choose myself. Putting myself first is a skill that took me decades to learn, because my family constantly told me I'm worthless and should put myself last. Also, feminism guarantees my wife's happiness at the expense of mine, so I refuse to go along with it.

funeralxempire wrote:
I wonder how much of this comes from poor examples of relationships being modelled, how much is trauma from bad experiences in relationships and how much is just entitlement and misogyny influencing some men's views of straight relationships.
The trauma come from two things. The first and very severe one is watching my parents argue constantly, to the point of throwing objects across the room, until the day I moved out. The second and much milder one is my first girlfriend, who was extremely boring and unattractive. Being with her felt like tedious and unfun; she didn't like museums, artsy neighborhoods, quirky restaurants, or other outings, although she did go to an on-campus dance with me. I only stayed with her because I felt no other girl would like me.

Wow, you should see my therapist. She never takes anyone's side but mine. Unless conjoined therapy of multiple people, which i find too emotionally hard.

Her approach to my relationship is in a listening and helping way, not anything like taking sides, and nothing uncalled for by me. She doesn't say I dont understand, she tries to help me understand when I want to.


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Last edited by Rexi on 09 Oct 2021, 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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09 Oct 2021, 12:19 pm

Rexi wrote:
Wow, you should see my therapist. She never takes anyone's side but mine. Unless conjoined therapy of multiple people, which i find too emotionally hard.
Thanks, but no thanks. There's a reason why "therapist" and "the rapist" are spelled so similarly. One leaves you feeling violated and hating your life, and the other has sex without consent.



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09 Oct 2021, 12:30 pm

"Putting myself first is a skill that took me decades to learn, because my family constantly told me I'm worthless and should put myself last. Also, feminism guarantees my wife's happiness at the expense of mine, so I refuse to go along with it."

This situation puts me in extreme difficulty to reply. On one side I understand how much of an important part that is for you -look at the situation this puts me in- on another you shouldnt have to defend or feel like you need to defend yourself constantly, but be relaxed and feel safe.

Why do you think she's a feminazi? Do you feel like she's always after you to cause trouble? Is this your true wife or are we just theoretically debating?


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09 Oct 2021, 12:37 pm

"she didn't like museums, artsy neighborhoods, quirky restaurants, or other outings, although she did go to an on-campus dance with me. "
The creepiness of this is that when I'm hyperfocused on my fiance I'm exactly like that. Not only am I hard to take to those places but if he asks me how I feel about them I feel he's violating relationship terms and they can't compare to my fiance. Scandalous. Anyhow. I'm willing to change that and I suspect in time it'll become more of a thing, I'm not used to so many changes that travel takes, different weather, being outside all the time, it's exhausting.

I kid you not, the dance with my fiance is one of my favorite things.


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09 Oct 2021, 12:41 pm

Rexi wrote:
"Putting myself first is a skill that took me decades to learn, because my family constantly told me I'm worthless and should put myself last. Also, feminism guarantees my wife's happiness at the expense of mine, so I refuse to go along with it."

This situation puts me in extreme difficulty to reply. On one side I understand how much of an important part that is for you -look at the situation this puts me in- on another you shouldnt have to defend or feel like you need to defend yourself constantly, but be relaxed and feel safe.

Why do you think she's a feminazi? Do you feel like she's always after you to cause trouble? Is this your true wife or are we just theoretically debating?
It's not that wives are defliebrately out to cause their husbands misery. It's something they do subconsciously, like picking fights over silly things like a dirty sock on the floor. It's just a silly SOCK! But it's not ABOUT the sock. She has an evolutionary instinct to want to see her husband stand up for himself and not act apologetic. But feminism says it's "wrong" for a husband to stand up for himself. So it becomes a "damned if I do, damned if I don't" thing for a man: the former violates the social norms of feminism, the latter destroys his wife's respect.

So... I don't have a wife, thanks god! Otherwise, I'd be either too scared and depressed to even post on here, or already have taken my life to escape the constant fighting. Just as I kept making suicide plans as a child to escape my parents' control and punishments.


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Last edited by Aspie1 on 09 Oct 2021, 1:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

funeralxempire
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09 Oct 2021, 12:44 pm

Aspie1 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
I wonder how much of this comes from poor examples of relationships being modelled, how much is trauma from bad experiences in relationships and how much is just entitlement and misogyny influencing some men's views of straight relationships.
The trauma come from two things. The first and very severe one is watching my parents argue constantly, to the point of throwing objects across the room, until the day I moved out. The second and much milder one is my first girlfriend, who was extremely boring and unattractive. Being with her felt like tedious and unfun; she didn't like museums, artsy neighborhoods, quirky restaurants, or other outings, although she did go to an on-campus dance with me. I only stayed with her because I felt no other girl would like me.


It sounds like you've had some pretty sh***y experiences and adopted some pretty harmful attitudes as a result of those experiences but I can understand ending up with a mindset towards something that's so poisoned that it warps one's ability to even recognize it as a problem.


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09 Oct 2021, 1:05 pm

Aspie1 wrote:
Rexi wrote:
"Putting myself first is a skill that took me decades to learn, because my family constantly told me I'm worthless and should put myself last. Also, feminism guarantees my wife's happiness at the expense of mine, so I refuse to go along with it."

This situation puts me in extreme difficulty to reply. On one side I understand how much of an important part that is for you -look at the situation this puts me in- on another you shouldnt have to defend or feel like you need to defend yourself constantly, but be relaxed and feel safe.

Why do you think she's a feminazi? Do you feel like she's always after you to cause trouble? Is this your true wife or are we just theoretically debating?
It's not that wives are defliebrately out to cause their husbands misery. It's something they do subconsciously, like picking fights over silly things like a dirty sock on the floor. It's just a silly SOCK! But it's not ABOUT the sock. She has an evolutionary instinct to want to see her husband stand up for himself and not act apologetic. But feminism says it's "wrong" for a husband to stand up for himself. So it becomes a "damned if I do, damned if I don't" thing for a man: the former violates the social norms of feminism, the latter destroys his wife's respect.

So... I don't have a wife, thanks god! Otherwise, I'd be either too scared and depressed to even post on here, or already have taken my life to escape the constant fighting. Just as I kept making suicide plans as a child to escape my parents control and punishments.

Not every wife is a feminazi, maybe you can't choose partners which are healthy for you, a common issue, super hard to improve for me.

That sounds like lack of tolerance which is very important in a household. Me, mom and in general in relationships, I've been tons through this, on both ends of it. The control freak, obsessed with order, tired, disgusted or in a bad mood, and the innocent sock loser fighting for their life against the angry explosive monster.

Again, there is "fighting for life" which you have been put a lot through in that relationship it seems.

"I'd be either too scared and depressed to even post on here, or already have taken my life to escape the constant fighting. " my mindset after fights ._. I'm lucky my fiance is gentle and sensible and doesn't have too many issues with me posting here even about our issues, our events or about him.

So wait, what do you think would help your "boring ex" just curious, since you've been on the other side. What my fiance did to help me out of my shell was talk to me seriously and express how it affects him but also what he needs (even if not in the best way) as well as support me and try to make my comfort levels rise and show me affection so i could join in and also let me talk about my experience of it and the issues i had. I tried to do better and he tried to do better, and we reached a somewhat nice time we're very satisfied with. Maybe not the ideal but we're both very happy with how it came out. I still need to initiate chores and play/activity and build a higher interest in touristic attractions. My guess is i really like nature, and packed buildings aren't the right environment for that to happen as much, but there are things i enjoyed regardlessly especially since hes made them all the more special by joking about them, choosing them or being by me in the experience. We only had a couple of days to work this out, I think we did great.

I swear the power of appeasing each other helps with anything. When he brought me the toy dog its like when classic men bring flowers. He also enjoys it and it eases his mood and stress when I do similar things to him, even if its give something he wants, needs, do things in the way he wants them done, solve an issue we have and compromise his way, and seeing him joyful and his satisfaction makes nothing else matter anymore. I stole this tactic from him, he made me feel so good one day I sworn I'll do it to him too.


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09 Oct 2021, 1:36 pm

Aspie1 wrote:
Rexi wrote:
"Putting myself first is a skill that took me decades to learn, because my family constantly told me I'm worthless and should put myself last. Also, feminism guarantees my wife's happiness at the expense of mine, so I refuse to go along with it."

This situation puts me in extreme difficulty to reply. On one side I understand how much of an important part that is for you -look at the situation this puts me in- on another you shouldnt have to defend or feel like you need to defend yourself constantly, but be relaxed and feel safe.

Why do you think she's a feminazi? Do you feel like she's always after you to cause trouble? Is this your true wife or are we just theoretically debating?
It's not that wives are defliebrately out to cause their husbands misery. It's something they do subconsciously, like picking fights over silly things like a dirty sock on the floor. It's just a silly SOCK! But it's not ABOUT the sock. She has an evolutionary instinct to want to see her husband stand up for himself and not act apologetic. But feminism says it's "wrong" for a husband to stand up for himself. So it becomes a "damned if I do, damned if I don't" thing for a man: the former violates the social norms of feminism, the latter destroys his wife's respect.

So... I don't have a wife, thanks god! Otherwise, I'd be either too scared and depressed to even post on here, or already have taken my life to escape the constant fighting. Just as I kept making suicide plans as a child to escape my parents' control and punishments.


What you suffered at the hands of your parents is clear cut to me so called empathic normals (neuroypicals) treating someone on the spectrum in their typical way. That I do sympathise with. Quite frankly I despise neurotypicals both as individuals and as a society. I'm delighted that this pandemic is wiping them out and making them unhappy. And I've certainly expirenced their bs of them expecting me to always put myself last and them putting themselves first. My wife suffered much worse because her father wanted a prom queen and cheerleader for a daughter and got a clumsy, shy, bookish girl who was short and round.



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09 Oct 2021, 1:36 pm

Rexi wrote:
So wait, what do you think would help your "boring ex" just curious, since you've been on the other side. What my fiance did to help me out of my shell was talk to me seriously and express how it affects him but also what he needs (even if not in the best way) as well as support me and try to make my comfort levels rise and show me affection so i could join in and also let me talk about my experience of it and the issues i had. I tried to do better and he tried to do better, and we reached a somewhat nice time we're very satisfied with.
I don't know. I didn't really try to persuade her to join me on my activities. I basically resigned myself to the fact that relationships aren't supposed to be fun for men. As the same time, I always agreed to partake in her activities, which were limited to eating in boring American diners and hanging out on campus. And, of course, that dance event I managed to convince her to go to.

Either way, we fizzled out just a few months later. When we went to the dance, she didn't even want to dance in a cuddle position, presumably because she lost interest by then. The bitterness I felt was mostly limited to having wasted my time and mental effort.

Funny how women I met in the last 5 years in platonic contexts were far more exciting, engaging, and fun than that girl ever was. Like the female friend I met in 2016. Or the women in my Meetup groups. Or the two ladies on a cruise ship in 2019. All of them praised me for being fun to be around, and the hugs they gave me were exponentially better than the ones that girl gave me.

Axeman wrote:
What you suffered at the hands of your parents is clear cut to me so called empathic normals (neuroypicals) treating someone on the spectrum in their typical way. That I do sympathise with. Quite frankly I despise neurotypicals both as individuals and as a society. I'm delighted that this pandemic is wiping them out and making them unhappy. And I've certainly expirenced their bs of them expecting me to always put myself last and them putting themselves first. My wife suffered much worse because her father wanted a prom queen and cheerleader for a daughter and got a clumsy, shy, bookish girl who was short and round.
Hold it there! The 2020 scamdemic made me unhappy too, and I'm an aspie! To the point where I was drinking like a fish, chain-smoking cigarettes, and had joined QAnon just to escape the social isolation. It's funny and scary how my state classified liquor stores as "essential" and kept them open, while shutting down barber shops and dentist offices.


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09 Oct 2021, 3:49 pm

Axeman wrote:
Aspie1 wrote:
Rexi wrote:
"Putting myself first is a skill that took me decades to learn, because my family constantly told me I'm worthless and should put myself last. Also, feminism guarantees my wife's happiness at the expense of mine, so I refuse to go along with it."

This situation puts me in extreme difficulty to reply. On one side I understand how much of an important part that is for you -look at the situation this puts me in- on another you shouldnt have to defend or feel like you need to defend yourself constantly, but be relaxed and feel safe.

Why do you think she's a feminazi? Do you feel like she's always after you to cause trouble? Is this your true wife or are we just theoretically debating?
It's not that wives are defliebrately out to cause their husbands misery. It's something they do subconsciously, like picking fights over silly things like a dirty sock on the floor. It's just a silly SOCK! But it's not ABOUT the sock. She has an evolutionary instinct to want to see her husband stand up for himself and not act apologetic. But feminism says it's "wrong" for a husband to stand up for himself. So it becomes a "damned if I do, damned if I don't" thing for a man: the former violates the social norms of feminism, the latter destroys his wife's respect.

So... I don't have a wife, thanks god! Otherwise, I'd be either too scared and depressed to even post on here, or already have taken my life to escape the constant fighting. Just as I kept making suicide plans as a child to escape my parents' control and punishments.


What you suffered at the hands of your parents is clear cut to me so called empathic normals (neuroypicals) treating someone on the spectrum in their typical way. That I do sympathise with. Quite frankly I despise neurotypicals both as individuals and as a society. I'm delighted that this pandemic is wiping them out and making them unhappy. And I've certainly expirenced their bs of them expecting me to always put myself last and them putting themselves first. My wife suffered much worse because her father wanted a prom queen and cheerleader for a daughter and got a clumsy, shy, bookish girl who was short and round.


Imo neuroypicals caused your issues not women. My wife and I love museums, artsy neighborhoods, and all those other things your NT girl wasn't interested in.



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10 Oct 2021, 12:38 am

Axeman wrote:
Imo neuroypicals caused your issues not women. My wife and I love museums, artsy neighborhoods, and all those other things your NT girl wasn't interested in.
I don't think it's so cut-and-dried. How would you explain this bizarre night-and-day difference?

Year 2002:
Me and my first girlfriend saw a band performing on our college campus. Since we were 18, we were both obviously sober. It was a 3-piece guitar/drums/keyboard band. They sold glow sticks for $1 apiece, to raise money and make the band performance more fun. We each bought one, to support the band. I initiated a pretend sword fight, by hitting her glow stick with mine. She looked me squarely in the eyes, and started berating me: "You're 18 and in college, and acting like a kid! Stop it!". I threw my glow stick into a nearby trash can, and spent the rest of the night sheepishly watching the band with my girlfriend, feeling ashamed. We said "good night" quite dryly at the end, with a reluctant, standoffish hug.

Year 2021:
Me and my QAnon group went to a street festival in the next state over, the one that has no mask mandates. We're all in our late 30's thru late 50's. There was a rock cover band playing. Me (male, 38), my friend (female, 40), and her friend (male) drove there together. We bought glow sticks in a dollar store on the way over. We got to the festival, loaded up on overpriced beers, and started watching the band. While the band played, I did the exact same thing I did 19 years prior: initiate a pretend sword fight. This time, my friend enthusiastically reciprocated, and we hit each other's glow sticks for several minutes, making lightsaber noises throughout. Our Q friends chuckled at us with no trace of mockery or derision.

Why is the difference so glaring? Isn't 18 supposed to be an age where you're not entirely mature, and still have leeway to act like a kid sometimes? Then why was my 18-year-old girlfriend so uptight and boring (which made me wary of heterosexual relationships to this day, despite me being straight), while my 40-year-old friend is so laid-back and fun?

Was it the alcohol, where me and my girlfriend were stone-cold sober at age 18, while me and my friend this year were pretty drunk, and therefore felt freer to act silly? Was it the politics, where me and my girlfriend were passive liberals, while me and by friend this year were hard-right Biden-hating conservatives, and therefore felt united by such views, which made childish behaviors a part of the uniting factor? Was it simply being older, and therefore not caring what people think, and doing silly-looking, harmless things just because they feel fun at the moment?



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10 Oct 2021, 1:32 am

Aspie1 wrote:
Rexi wrote:
"Putting myself first is a skill that took me decades to learn, because my family constantly told me I'm worthless and should put myself last. Also, feminism guarantees my wife's happiness at the expense of mine, so I refuse to go along with it."

This situation puts me in extreme difficulty to reply. On one side I understand how much of an important part that is for you -look at the situation this puts me in- on another you shouldnt have to defend or feel like you need to defend yourself constantly, but be relaxed and feel safe.

Why do you think she's a feminazi? Do you feel like she's always after you to cause trouble? Is this your true wife or are we just theoretically debating?
It's not that wives are defliebrately out to cause their husbands misery. It's something they do subconsciously, like picking fights over silly things like a dirty sock on the floor. It's just a silly SOCK! But it's not ABOUT the sock. She has an evolutionary instinct to want to see her husband stand up for himself and not act apologetic. But feminism says it's "wrong" for a husband to stand up for himself. So it becomes a "damned if I do, damned if I don't" thing for a man: the former violates the social norms of feminism, the latter destroys his wife's respect.

So... I don't have a wife, thanks god! Otherwise, I'd be either too scared and depressed to even post on here, or already have taken my life to escape the constant fighting. Just as I kept making suicide plans as a child to escape my parents' control and punishments.


You know what I do if I se a dirty sock or a few of my boyfriends socks on the floor, I pick them up and put them with the laundry and I mostly take care of said laundry as well. Also feminism does not say that, fringe feminism says that I think that type gets over-represented on the internet but at its core feminism suggests nothing like that.

Also though you mentioned your parents fighting, I grew up like that to...so you aren't alone there. But I guess whereas you have decided the best reaction is to just never get married or be in a long term ongoing relationship. I decided i still did want a long term relationship and potentially marrige(at least on paper, no way do I want to go through the stress and annoyance of an actual ceremony I hate weddings and yet I have to go to one but my boyfriend hates them to and its his sisters wedding so I am going because he has to go and I refuse to have him suffer it alone(though he did say since he knows I have anxiety problems that i didn't have to go if I really felt it was too much.) but it's not too much I just hate it, but he hates it too so at least we are on the same page. But yeah I figured I could still have a relationship and it wouldn't have to end up like my parents.


So I decided it could not be like my parents relationship we had to really connect and relate to each other on the deeper issues. Like we both don't want kids, we both are more liberal/lefty even a bit socialist, both kind of nerds, both like to do drugs sometimes and if one or the other is getting carried away we approach that by talking not like my mom just dumping out all my dads cooking wine because she thought that was the stash he was liquoring himself up with(no that was just the beer). We both drink and have done drugs together I think my moms objections to my dads drinking or using weed just kind of encouraged him to use them in excess because she'd get so like down on him and angry for days. I don't even understand the for days bit...like sure I am human so I have gotten mad at my boyfriend but no way I could go for days just being mad and giving him the cold shoulder like my mom did to my dad sometimes. I feel like even if I get mad about something, I still want us to go to bed being ok with each other besides our current couch is not somthing you can sleep on it is a trash futon that we are looking to replace, like the frame cracked and we are using cinder blocks to stablize it so it doesn't collapse on us...no way in hell am I going to expect him to sleep on that just because we had an argument. But also I would not get mad at my boyfriend for drinking or smoking weed.