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cyberdad
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17 Sep 2021, 10:34 pm

ironpony wrote:
But even if guys are stigmatised for being virgins, why would a guy even want to tell a woman that he is one anyway? If women do not like virgin guys then there is no reason to bring it up beforehand is there?


Well that's what I am saying, most men wouldn't. Simply saying the words "I'm a virgin" to a woman is highly stigmatising. It wouldn't surprise me if even female virgins would prefer an experienced man is more likely to get them to orgasm.



ironpony
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17 Sep 2021, 10:36 pm

Oh okay, I thought maybe men were telling women that they were, if virginity was one of the causes as to why men reject incels.



cyberdad
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17 Sep 2021, 11:13 pm

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, I thought maybe men were telling women that they were, if virginity was one of the causes as to why men reject incels.


I can't speak for all men but the vast majority wouldn't tell a girl they met that they are virgins. Two things can happen, the girl detects the guy is inexperienced just be listening/and or watching him and decide to opt out, Alternatively they go ahead and the guy has his first experience.

The second scenario the man doesn't reveal anything till they are in bed and then it dawns on the girl the virgin is improvising.

Either way if there is an admission that the man is a virgin, then it doesn't make sense until the two know each other reasonably well.



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17 Sep 2021, 11:35 pm

Oh okay, so you are saying the women will detect it either way likely?



Aspie1
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17 Sep 2021, 11:45 pm

:hic:

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, so you are saying the women will detect it either way likely?
It sounds like a "yes": women will be able to detect a male virgin from a mile away.

Which means one thing and one thing only: if you're a male virgin, you don't have any options except hiring an escort or settling for a girlfriend you're embarrassed to be seen in public with.

In college, I settled for the latter, and it backfired on me: when I took her to a winter dance, she didn't want to dance in a cuddly embrace with me. Which means I was too ugly even for her---the least attractive girl I've ever met until then. So 3 years later, I did the former: hire an escort, though a well-known agency in my city at the time. She took my virginity and my innocence along with



Axeman
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17 Sep 2021, 11:49 pm

Aspie1 wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, so you are saying the women will detect it either way likely?
It sounds like a "yes": women will be able to detect a male virgin from a mile away.

Which means one thing and one thing only: if you're a male virgin, you don't have any options except hiring an escort or settling for a girlfriend you're embarrassed to be seen in public with.

In college, I settled for the latter, and it backfired on me: when I took her to a winter dance, she didn't want to dance in a cuddly embrace with me. So 3 years later, I did the former: hire an escort, though a well-known agency in my city at the time. She took my virginity and my innocence along with it! :D


You are one nasty guy.



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18 Sep 2021, 12:29 am

cyberdad wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
But I think the vast majority of men are not so ugly no woman would want to date them. Though some guys who blame their 'ugliness' really just radiate such a bad negative attitude that is more likely what is really keeping the women away.


This is tricky. The odds are already stacked and when you are hit with perceived ugliness tag then the pool of potential girls interested in you dries up very very fast.

It's not that there aren't girls out there who would be willing to date an ugly man, it's just
a) there are relatively so few
b) if the girls don't have high standards then they would already been taken
c) the remaining girls willing to give an ugly man a chance are hard to find (there isn't a locater available to find these fantastic girls)
d) even if you were lucky to finally come across these "gems" there is absolutely no guarantee they will date you because I don't think any girl (unless they have a fetish) search for men with blemishes. It boils down to options, and you would still not be the first choice so it requires hard work to break the ice.

These are the stark realities and it doesn't help telling unattractive virgin men "there's a girl out there for you" without giving them the facts. The brutal reality is that you need to improve yourself (whether it be physical appearance, grooming, mindset and even employment) if you want to maximise your chances.

Otherwise giving men in this situation high expectations means the bext tine they fail they will be more reluctant to try again.


Well yeah, a lot of them do need to improve themselves and that does not have to be impossible. But also if a girl does not have super high standards in looks, they may have other standards..in which case if the guy is negative all the time about it, that might put said women off from their other standards.

And maybe women don't start out seeking blemishes, but doesn't mean they will never accept someone who has any when it actually comes down to it..but depends on the person. I was watching some like blind dating show on Hulu, where they'd match random people up and have 'comedians' sort of joke about it I put comedians in the quotations because I didn't find them that funny. But anyways women and men would say this and that about the sort of partner they envisioned but then would still fall for the person they went out with on the blind date even if they didn't quite have the looks/physical features they were after. Or other times the match would seem good because the people were clearly what they really liked in appearance to each other, but then they wouldn't want a second date because though the looks were on point the personality was unappealing.

Seemed more often then not people let slide some of the physical appearance things they'd mention before meeting their date if they got on well with them, whereas seemed in cases where the looks were on point but one of the people got turned off by the others demeanor/attitude they'd not go for a second date. Like seems it was more common people on there forgave physical short comings, easier than they forgave personality/demeanor/attitude short comings.

Also as for the improving yourself, you even have to do that in a relationship...like you can't just stagnate and neglect yourself and everything around you once in a relationship, if one does that then the relationship can for sure end.



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18 Sep 2021, 12:47 am

Aspie1 wrote:
:hic:
ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, so you are saying the women will detect it either way likely?
It sounds like a "yes": women will be able to detect a male virgin from a mile away.

Which means one thing and one thing only: if you're a male virgin, you don't have any options except hiring an escort or settling for a girlfriend you're embarrassed to be seen in public with.

In college, I settled for the latter, and it backfired on me: when I took her to a winter dance, she didn't want to dance in a cuddly embrace with me. Which means I was too ugly even for her---the least attractive girl I've ever met until then. So 3 years later, I did the former: hire an escort, though a well-known agency in my city at the time. She took my virginity and my innocence along with


Do virgins have to settle for a gf they are embarassed by at all? Like once a guy gets experience with escorts, can they go back into the dating world after, and then this will help women not smell virgin on them, after?



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18 Sep 2021, 1:10 am

Aspie1 wrote:
:hic:
ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, so you are saying the women will detect it either way likely?
It sounds like a "yes": women will be able to detect a male virgin from a mile away.

Which means one thing and one thing only: if you're a male virgin, you don't have any options except hiring an escort or settling for a girlfriend you're embarrassed to be seen in public with.

In college, I settled for the latter, and it backfired on me: when I took her to a winter dance, she didn't want to dance in a cuddly embrace with me. Which means I was too ugly even for her---the least attractive girl I've ever met until then. So 3 years later, I did the former: hire an escort, though a well-known agency in my city at the time. She took my virginity and my innocence along with


Just kind of seems like if someone is in such a position that maybe they have to settle for women who are less than 10's, should not maybe be so judgmental on looks. Like just are you trying to put on the attitude off like a college bro mentality but just without the good looks of them? Just seems some of these guys who struggle with singleness even you are trying to put on a persona and being just like the Chad bros talking about women who are less than 'super hotties' like they are just gross trolls.

Like idk maybe be more accepting of women with some blemishies and flaws, but this is what it comes down to some guys who struggle do find there are women who they could get on with, but just say 'well pffft but I deserve a hottie who will impress people... not these less than that women don't count and then later still complain or seem bothered by being single. Just seems at least an element of perpetually single guys are just as judgmental about women's looks as those Chads/Bros they complain about of getting all the women.



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18 Sep 2021, 1:14 am

But the way people are talking about incel men on here, I thought incel men are being rejected by women that are 1 out of 10s even, the way the talk has been going, unless that is not the case, and they are raising their standards too high likely?



Sweetleaf
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18 Sep 2021, 1:25 am

ironpony wrote:
Aspie1 wrote:
:hic:
ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, so you are saying the women will detect it either way likely?
It sounds like a "yes": women will be able to detect a male virgin from a mile away.

Which means one thing and one thing only: if you're a male virgin, you don't have any options except hiring an escort or settling for a girlfriend you're embarrassed to be seen in public with.

In college, I settled for the latter, and it backfired on me: when I took her to a winter dance, she didn't want to dance in a cuddly embrace with me. Which means I was too ugly even for her---the least attractive girl I've ever met until then. So 3 years later, I did the former: hire an escort, though a well-known agency in my city at the time. She took my virginity and my innocence along with


Do virgins have to settle for a gf they are embarassed by at all? Like once a guy gets experience with escorts, can they go back into the dating world after, and then this will help women not smell virgin on them, after?


Women cannot 'smell' virgins, I mean idk maybe a women very experienced in sex could suspect if a guy is a virgin. But for sure women do not have any built in 'virgin...better stay away' radar. I mean I am a woman and we are just people, we don't have special abilities like that by any means. I mean I personally doubt I could tell if a guy is a virgin or not unless he says it. Like threads like this can get a little annoying because like we are just people at the end of the day we don't have a special radar to warn us of virgins and we certainly do not all have the same views on what is attractive in a man.

Also how do we know that girl was turned of by Aspie1's looks, maybe she caught onto that he wasn't that into her and thought she was unattractive, and that is why she didn't want to dance. Doesn't take any special ability to notice if the guy your with isn't really into you at all, and if a woman suspected that they may not want to get all cuddly on the dance floor with someone who wont accept them in the end idk.



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18 Sep 2021, 1:28 am

I'm not saying that all women are exactly the same, but a lot of them have certain similar characteristics to be aware of when it comes to dating in sex, in order to help with it.

That's not bad though I don't think. A lot of guys have similar characteristics as well, which women can use to their advantage as well.



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18 Sep 2021, 1:31 am

ironpony wrote:
But the way people are talking about incel men on here, I thought incel men are being rejected by women that are 1 out of 10s even, the way the talk has been going, unless that is not the case, and they are raising their standards too high likely?


If anything incel men reject women themselves by being hateful towards them. It is not like they are acting as good boyfriend/relationship material and respectfully trying to find women. It is like they are mad about being single and demanding women...and then get mad when women don't want to get with someone who is menacing towards them. Like sorry if we don't want to date the guy who is one step away from just outright demanding sex with any woman as their right.

Just to be clear I don't think that is what you think, but that is the problem with a lot of the incels is they act all mean towards women and then throw a fit about how no woman wants to have sex with them. Well In my single days I'd have been wary about having sex with someone like that to.



Last edited by Sweetleaf on 18 Sep 2021, 1:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

ironpony
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18 Sep 2021, 1:34 am

Oh well if that is what they are doing that is going to be a problem with most women. Incel men need to learn what to do, if that's the case.



Sweetleaf
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18 Sep 2021, 1:55 am

ironpony wrote:
Oh well if that is what they are doing that is going to be a problem with most women. Incel men need to learn what to do, if that's the case.


Well yeah, and the thing not to do is join up on online incel groups that promote negativity, self hatered and voilence/hate against women and even men who are in relationships. That is the big problem like lonely guys who maybe would not have gotten so negative like that on their own, may get sucked into those incel communities and become more extremist. That is the problem is those Incel communites act like terrorist cells trying to suck in unhappy people to brainwash them...and sometimes they can get a martyr, someone who goes and does an incel motivated mass shooting that the incel online communities can celebrate as a hero/martyr for the cause.

Like if you look more into the Elliot Rogers shooting he was posting on online incel communities and they were egging on his negative and increasingly violent thoughts till he finally did go on to commit the shooting which was then celebrated by many people in those online communities.



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18 Sep 2021, 2:32 am

from my own experience at least, a lot of the bitter incels lack social intelligence and only know how to relate to others similar to themselves [i.e. on the same wavelength] via the written word. get them in an actual physical room f2f and it very likely would be very noisy with crickets. if i hadn't been a longtime employee of a hospital maternal [Labor & Delivery] child care ward, i would have never learned the big picture and eventually how to relate properly to other humans. i recommend that experience to other incels, it is a brute-force method of learning social intelligence and gaining the perspective needed to understand why things are the way they are between the sexes.