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QFT
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19 Jun 2021, 4:35 pm

dorkseid wrote:
It is a very Western phenomenon. In many other cultures, it is customary for men to hug and show non-sexual affection for each other by means of physical touch.


I spent 5 years in India where I did my postdocs and I saw some of it there. I found it disgusting. No, I weren't thinking "they are gay". Rather, I was thinking "they have no concept of personal boundaries". Because the other disgusting thing about Indians is that they would openly stare at my computer screen when I am writing an email to someone thinking it is okay. So thats why I felt like "well if they think reading the other person's email is okay, they might as well think that hugging other men is okay".

Incidentally, it is only Indian men that are nousy like that, not women. So I am wondering whether it is patriarchy that is part of it. As in a man wants to assess his dominance. But that is just my theory. What do you think?

dorkseid wrote:
For example, it is common in some places in the Middle East for men to hold hands with male friends in public.


Speaking of Middle East, I was just wondering: were you born in the US, or were you born in the Middle East and then immigrated to the US? The reason I am asking is because you mentioned that you used to be Muslim and now you are atheist.

dorkseid wrote:
Feeling revolution at the thought of hugging other men may indeed be a taught behavior. It is often difficult for people to recognize or identify their own cultural biases.


Okay lets put it this way. If I was a woman, I would be just as revulsed at hugging a man. On the other hand, again if I was a woman, I would be just as attracted to women as I am now. So its not about being gay or straight. Its about the fact that touching a woman "objectively" feels good (regardless of my own gender), while hugging a man is "objectively" repulsive (again regardless of my gender).

That is the other reason why it is so hard to believe that women aren't attracted to each other. Cause they are objectively more attractive, so they should be attractive to females too. Even if they didn't hug each other I would still wonder about it for the reason just stated. Them hugging each other only confirms it.

dorkseid wrote:
But it could also be caused by ASD.


Are you referring to the idea that people with ASD don't like to be touched? In my case, I very much WOULD enjoy being touched by a woman. Just not by a man.



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19 Jun 2021, 4:38 pm

cyberdad wrote:
dorkseid wrote:
cyberdad wrote:

I think you need to look at traditional cultures (rather than Americans) for a potential partner as there's plenty of cultures where 25yr old girls will be willingly to marry a 40 year old man.


That makes a lot of sense on paper. The problem is that I don't have the means to just up and relocate myself to some other part of the world where I don't know anyone or even speak the language, and have no idea what I'll do to support myself financially.


I would start with looking for girls who are first generation immigrants where you live. Do you have a preference? pick a culture, eastern European girls for example are marriage focused.


I don't know about anything of these relationships, but I heard before that as soon as the partner comes to America, they may assimilate and go the way as the rest of the people in that country, regarding social orientation. My key word "may", I'm not saying all those kinds of relationships work out like that, but I would consider that.



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19 Jun 2021, 4:46 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
dorkseid wrote:
BeaArthur wrote:
I didn't bother to read the whole thread. I find it funny that you would reject women your own age (25+15=40), yet you worry you are running out of time.

Beggars can't be choosers.


The point is that I hate being in that position. I missed out when I was younger, and now I'm too old and it's too late.


There's nothing wrong with women your own age. You can still have a relationship, just maybe not with a woman in her 20s.

If you decide that you can't ever have a successful dating life because you weren't successful in your younger years, fine, but then you only have yourself to blame for your loneliness.

I can understand why somewhere biologically we might have been designed to get married and have kids younger and he is expressing that desire. Even though I have no problem with women my own age either.



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19 Jun 2021, 4:52 pm

QFT wrote:
I have the same regrets to the ones dorkseid described. In fact, what he wrote are my thought verbatim.

Now, I don't know about him, but in my case it is important to have *biological* children. Thats because I want to have my genes passed, as I don't want my genetic line to die out. So raising children/grandchildren that are not biologically mine just doesn't cut it.

Apart from that, as a Christian, I believe that marrying a woman who was divorced is tantamount to adultery (Matt 5:32) So even if the woman is without kids and is willing to have biological kids with me, if she used to be married in the past thats a deal breaker. Similarly, if a woman does have kids it would be deal breakter too (regardless of whether she was married or not).

I think dorkseid is different from me at least when it comes to the Christian aspect. He said he is an atheist. I have no idea whether he wants to continue his genetic line though. So I dunno, perhaps his situation is slightly easier than mine due to those two things. But other than that I can very much relate to what he is saying.


As you are a Christian, in Matthew 22:30 Jesus also said that basically there will be no sex and having those forms of relationships in Heaven (that sucks) and all desire for it would be removed anyway, so better attain it now while you still can. It's actually painful and hypocritical, but this is what Christians believe.



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19 Jun 2021, 4:53 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
My first reaction was “why is QFT asking men,”


Thats only because cyberdad happened to be the one who said that a lot of women are bisexual or lesbians, and he happened to be a man. I was simply responding to whomever said this. If a woman were to say it, I would be "asking women". I am asking both genders to get both perspectives.

DW_a_mom wrote:
And it is accurate to note that men feel and smell different than women in a hug. I think sensory issues can very well be the difference that explains QFT’s reactions.


Actually, to me the smell thing is huge when it comes to this. But I won't call it a sensory issue, because I don't actually know how women smell like. But I just have an idea in my head that, what women smell like is good (to both genders) and what men smell like is bad (again for both genders). So its not an anti-gay brainwashing against being gay, since I feel like "both genders" wound enjoy woman's smell more. Yet its not sensory issues either, since its the idea of a smell I am fixated on rather than smell itself.

By the way, in case you are wondering how come I don't know how women smell like if I had girlfriends before, well, I had three long term girlfriends. I actually tried to smell the first two and I didn't notice any smell. With the third one there wasn't that many opportunities to smell her since for one thing the relationship was long distance and I only visitted her twice for 3 days each, and also she was super religious and she wouldn't be snuggling with me for any length of time (although there was one time when she did, but the way she did it is she leaned backward against me, so I couldn't really smell her). Now, the first two girlfriends that I had were severely overweight. So I was wondering whether the girl, in her 20-s, that is of average weight would smell better. I never had an opportunity to date one, so it is still a question I have no answer to.

Also let me clarify that its not "just" about the smell. If I were to be offered a possibility of completely shutting down my nose and hugging either a man or a woman, I would still want to hug a woman and "not" want to hug a man. So its not just that but also other things. If you are going to say that woman's body is softer, its not entirely that either. I mean if a woman was really muscular I would hug her too, and if a man was really fat (thus soft) I wouldn't want to hug him. So women both smell better and simply "are" better in other ways.

Here is something else that just occurred to me. If I were to hug an elderly woman I would be repulsed too. Case in point: back when my grandma was alive, occasionally she wanted me to kiss her on a cheek and she would call me out on the fact that I wouldn't kiss her cheek but rather I would kiss an air next to her cheek. I would try super hard to hide it, like I would kiss literally a couple of millimeters away from her cheek, but still won't be willing to actually touch it. But I would have no problem kissing my mom on her cheek since she doesn't look as old.

So what this means is that its not about "avoiding to be gay" since my grandma is a woman. Its not about avoiding anything else I am being brainwashed against either: since I was trying to pretend I kissed her. Yet its also not about sensory issues, since I was willing to kiss my mom, just not my grandma.



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19 Jun 2021, 5:23 pm

Hollywood_Guy wrote:
As you are a Christian, in Matthew 22:30 Jesus also said that basically there will be no sex and having those forms of relationships in Heaven (that sucks) and all desire for it would be removed anyway,


That is one of the confusing passages that don't make too much sense to me. Particularly because Adam and Eve were told to "be fruitful and multiply". So I am not sure what to make of it.

To be honest, I haven't spent that much time thinking what heaven would be like, since Bible doesn't describe it too much. I am a lot more focused on making sure I go to heaven rather than hell. The rest I can figure out once I am there.


Hollywood_Guy wrote:
so better attain it now while you still can.


Bible never says this. It makes it clear that sex is permeated here on Earth, just only within marriage. Although again Old Testament and New Testament attitude seems a bit different. In Old Testament people are encouraged to marry, while in the New Testament it says that being a eunuch is a virtue. But still, both Testaments agree that marriage is permeated, and in fact give guidance on how to carry it out.



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19 Jun 2021, 5:48 pm

QFT wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
My first reaction was “why is QFT asking men,”


Thats only because cyberdad happened to be the one who said that a lot of women are bisexual or lesbians, and he happened to be a man. I was simply responding to whomever said this. If a woman were to say it, I would be "asking women". I am asking both genders to get both perspectives.

DW_a_mom wrote:
And it is accurate to note that men feel and smell different than women in a hug. I think sensory issues can very well be the difference that explains QFT’s reactions.


Actually, to me the smell thing is huge when it comes to this. But I won't call it a sensory issue, because I don't actually know how women smell like. But I just have an idea in my head that, what women smell like is good (to both genders) and what men smell like is bad (again for both genders). So its not an anti-gay brainwashing against being gay, since I feel like "both genders" wound enjoy woman's smell more. Yet its not sensory issues either, since its the idea of a smell I am fixated on rather than smell itself.

By the way, in case you are wondering how come I don't know how women smell like if I had girlfriends before, well, I had three long term girlfriends. I actually tried to smell the first two and I didn't notice any smell. With the third one there wasn't that many opportunities to smell her since for one thing the relationship was long distance and I only visitted her twice for 3 days each, and also she was super religious and she wouldn't be snuggling with me for any length of time (although there was one time when she did, but the way she did it is she leaned backward against me, so I couldn't really smell her). Now, the first two girlfriends that I had were severely overweight. So I was wondering whether the girl, in her 20-s, that is of average weight would smell better. I never had an opportunity to date one, so it is still a question I have no answer to.

Also let me clarify that its not "just" about the smell. If I were to be offered a possibility of completely shutting down my nose and hugging either a man or a woman, I would still want to hug a woman and "not" want to hug a man. So its not just that but also other things. If you are going to say that woman's body is softer, its not entirely that either. I mean if a woman was really muscular I would hug her too, and if a man was really fat (thus soft) I wouldn't want to hug him. So women both smell better and simply "are" better in other ways.

Here is something else that just occurred to me. If I were to hug an elderly woman I would be repulsed too. Case in point: back when my grandma was alive, occasionally she wanted me to kiss her on a cheek and she would call me out on the fact that I wouldn't kiss her cheek but rather I would kiss an air next to her cheek. I would try super hard to hide it, like I would kiss literally a couple of millimeters away from her cheek, but still won't be willing to actually touch it. But I would have no problem kissing my mom on her cheek since she doesn't look as old.

So what this means is that its not about "avoiding to be gay" since my grandma is a woman. Its not about avoiding anything else I am being brainwashed against either: since I was trying to pretend I kissed her. Yet its also not about sensory issues, since I was willing to kiss my mom, just not my grandma.


It may not be exclusively sensory issues, but I’m reading sensory triggers all over your post. I am going to guess the sensory differences eventually created associations that are so embedded you no longer realize what started them.

Men, boys and old people tend to have stronger smells than younger girls and women tend to. There are always exceptions, but middle school boys are an especially stinky lot, as most mothers to boys will admit. As their Mom’s we usually don’t find it offensive, but we do notice. One doesn’t have to be close to smell it; it can take over a room just by their being in it.

You don’t usually have to get super close to a man to discover his smell.

Girls, however, often have very little observable smell, to me, anyway, unless you get super close.

I really think dorkseid was onto something there, it’s just been part of your experience for so long you no longer see how the dots connect.

There could be multiple influences involved, but the more you wrote the stronger I felt about this one. JHMO.

Most kids, by the way, are less willing to kiss grandparents than parents. Old people smell and feel funny to kids. I wouldn’t get hung up on that in trying to understand your issues with hugging men.


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QFT
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19 Jun 2021, 6:24 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
There are always exceptions, but middle school boys are an especially stinky lot


Its interesting that you mentioned it, because this is what started it in my case, just not in a way that you think.

So, when I was a kid, I liked the smell of my own skin. But I also noticed that adult men have darker skin than boys. I assumed that when I will become an adult and my skin were to get darker, I would no longer like that smell but on the contrary it would be repulsive. On the contrary, the girls skin looks even lighter than boys skin, so I thought that the girl would have all the aspects of my own smell that I enjoy except better.

One thing that pushed me in this direction is that a lot of people were confusing me with a girl. So I was wondering whether I am not totally male but something in between, and attributed my smell to the female aspect of me. So then I decided that if I was a real female then it would be a better version of that smell, and was always curious what it would be like.

The other thing is that I was a lot younger than my passport age, which is probably part of the reason why I was confused with the girl (I still had a high voice even at ages like 16 or 17). So, when I was in the 20-s, I was still sort of the person I was used to and so I was just thinking "what would it be like to be a girl same age, how would my skin be smelling like". Since that option is not accessible, the next best option is to smell the skin of some other girl. But ten it would have to be the girl in the 20-s since that was my age group at the time. Which is why my grandma wouldn't do it.

And yes, two of my ex-s were in their 20-s, but their skin wasn't glowing as much as the skin of the women I was thinking of. Now remember how I said when I was a kid I attributted the smell of my skin to the fact that it was light colored and was thinking it won't smell good when it turns darker in color when I get older? So similarly I was thikning that women whose skin glows more (I mean naturally, without anything added to it) would smell better too. And I also noticed that the skin of overweight women (which is what my two ex-s were) does not glow as much. Thats why I keep wondering just how would the skin of a woman in her 20-s with normal weight would smell like?

But the other good point you made is that younger women have very mild smell. So maybe that is part of the reason why my curiosity was not satisfied so far. I happen to know the smell of the elderly (both men and women) since their smell is carried over the distance. So I can't be curious about something I already know. But as far as the smell of the skin of women in their 20s (and particularly how it relates to the smell I remember myself having) it is still a mystery.



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19 Jun 2021, 9:44 pm

dorkseid wrote:
Besides, I kind of have a thing for black and Hispanic women.

Cyberdad: How old were you when you went to Malaysia? And how old were you when you met your partner?


I was in my late 20s/early 30s in Malaysia and mid-30s when I got married.

I mentioned earlier to QFT if you "have a thing" for a particular culture then focus on them, Why not (for starters) learn Spanish? Having language skills breaks down barriers big time. It's also fun.

A funny story, I know one Australian guy who took Spanish classes because he had a thing for South American women and met his future wife (who was ironically Aussie :lol: ) in the same classes. They both shared a passion for all things South American and decided to travel through South America together (really cute :D ).

There are Spanish speaking countries south of the border, the mixed girls from the Dominican republic and Cuba are absolutely gorgeous and very marriage orientated from what I understand. You got plenty of options.



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19 Jun 2021, 9:51 pm

QFT wrote:
I was trying to ask if you have any other explanation for Asian girls to be so much easier to attract than Western ones.


QFT I am mindful that you told me last year (or the year before? COVID is interfering with my memory of things) that you were attracted to "western looking" women so if that's your preference then I am not sure east/south Asian women are going to fulfil your personal needs.

Have you considered doing a postdoc in a former Soviet country? You speak Russian right? I was watching a documentary/travel Vlog about Kazakhstan and central Asian girls are among the most beautiful women I have ever seen, They are also keen on western men but isn't there plenty of marriage orientated Russian/Ukrainian/Polish women?



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19 Jun 2021, 10:56 pm

cyberdad wrote:
QFT I am mindful that you told me last year (or the year before? COVID is interfering with my memory of things) that you were attracted to "western looking" women so if that's your preference then I am not sure east/south Asian women are going to fulfil your personal needs.


Thats true that I am only looking for Western-looking women. The reason I was asking about Asians is because I believe this contrast will help me understand "why" Western women reject me. Because what this contrast points to is that at least big part of the "why" is a cultural component. So I want to understand that cultural component better. And one way to understand it is through contrast. In particular, the answer to the question "what is it about Western women that makes them more difficult than Asian women" would lead to the answer to my question "why did women reject me".

cyberdad wrote:
Have you considered doing a postdoc in a former Soviet country? You speak Russian right? I was watching a documentary/travel Vlog about Kazakhstan and central Asian girls are among the most beautiful women I have ever seen, They are also keen on western men but isn't there plenty of marriage orientated Russian/Ukrainian/Polish women?


That sounds like a really good idea. I guess the reason I wasn't applying to Russia and other former Soviet countries is that I normally search for jobs by using SPIRES and they never show up there. I once even asked someone from Russia why, and that person told me that in that system they don't have such a thing as postdoc. But that conversation was back in 2008. I just ran google search right now "постдокторантура по физике" (which translates to "postdoctoral position in physics") and I immediately found a university in Russia that offers it: http://postdoc.tsu.ru/ So I guess that is what I should do instead of google.

I am not that surprised actually: under Soviet Union they had completely different system, but after its collapse they started to borrow things from the west. I guess it might have taken a few decades to borrow certain things like postdoc. Maybe thats why they didn't have it in 2008 even though Soviet Union collapsed in 1991.

As far as language goes, I came to the US when I was 14, so Russian is still my first language. As a matter of fact, I have a thick Russian accent and it seems like this is the other thing I am being judged on.

Sometimes it seems to me that when Americans don't understand my accent they look down at me as well. I don't know whether they "pretend" not to understand it because they don't like me for other reasons or whether they look down at me "because of" my accent.

And its not just the accent. When I broke iphone I decided to get flip phone instead and sometimes I put my fingers on a flip phone in such a way that it blocks sound. So it happened just yesterday when I called dentist to schedule an appointment, and that lady kept interrupting me saying "it muffles". And as I kept changing the position of my fingers on the phone, she still couldn't hear me, so her voice got more and more frustrated, eventually she hanged up. Then I called again, and a different lady picked up the phone, and interestingly enough that new lady had no problem hearing me. So this makes me wonder: did the first lady looked down at me because she couldn't hear me the first time and then she purposely pretended not to hear after that just to put me down? I mean it feels like that. By the way, it almost feels like the word "muffles" is a bad word: every time people say that "it muffles" they are ALWAYS saying it in an annoyed way.

In any case, even though moving to Russia offers me a solution from PRACTICAL point of view, I still want to know the answer to the "why" question of "WHY did American women reject me". So two other questions that would help me to get closer to answering this question is:

a) Why are Asian women easier than American ones
b) Why are Russian women easier than American ones

Even though for the "how" part I need "b" rather than "a", I think the answer to both "a" and "b" would help me to get the "why" part of it.



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20 Jun 2021, 1:48 am

QFT wrote:
Thats true that I am only looking for Western-looking women. The reason I was asking about Asians is because I believe this contrast will help me understand "why" Western women reject me. Because what this contrast points to is that at least big part of the "why" is a cultural component. So I want to understand that cultural component better. And one way to understand it is through contrast. In particular, the answer to the question "what is it about Western women that makes them more difficult than Asian women" would lead to the answer to my question "why did women reject me".


I apologize for being a little blunt in this post, but I am pointing out things you have the power to change. I truly believe that changing them can improve your prospects.

After reading you for a while, my best guess as to why western women reject you is that they perceive you as being "too much." You don't seem to let go, and you seem to drill deep down into all sorts of little details that don't matter to anyone else, and that others have a hard time seeing as relevant. When someone picks on every word spoken, including ones that have little to do with the point the speaker is trying to make, the speaker starts to feel like they have to walk on eggshells around the person. And it can feel invasive.

If you speak in the volume you write, it has to be hard to get a word in edgewise.

In contrast, the best way to make someone else feel good about their conversation with you is to get them talking about themself and things that interest them. I haven't really seen you approach conversation that way.

I'm not the first person here to tell you all this.

These are skills you can work on, that you can learn to change, without having to change the core of who you are. That is why I point it out: you can choose to work with a professional and do the work to remove these barriers from your life.

All that said, I've seen those types of barriers fall apart when the cultural differences are more overwhelming. I don't know why; I just know I've seen it.


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Last edited by DW_a_mom on 20 Jun 2021, 2:52 am, edited 2 times in total.

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20 Jun 2021, 2:23 am

QFT wrote:
[WHY did American women reject me". So two other questions that would help me to get closer to answering this question is:

a) Why are Asian women easier than American ones
b) Why are Russian women easier than American ones

Even though for the "how" part I need "b" rather than "a", I think the answer to both "a" and "b" would help me to get the "why" part of it.


Ok! so now we are getting closer to establishing some preliminary goals QFT

a) I'll give the male/NT/western perspective which is i) they like the western look (and all that entails) ii) they think we are more experienced/broadminded iii) they think we won't lock them up at home barefoot and pregnant
iv) they don't want a mother-in-law living at home micro-managing them v) it will help with their social progression (they have been taught from a young age westerners are top of the food chain).

While not all English educated Asian women fit the above mould (and I exclude muslim women) there is some level of i) - iv) that they consider. In my wife's case I was lucky to catch her on the rebound from another relationship.

b) This is a whole other discussion. I had a Polish friend whose brother ran a match-making agency in Warsaw back in the 1990s and the girls on his books were a mix of Poles, Russians and Ukrainians all of whom were fluent in Russian in those days because they went to school in the 1980s/90s when Russian was mandatory. Today I am not sure if Poles/Ukrainian young women still speak Russian but of course Russian girls still do.

There were two reasons my friend told me that drove these girls i) is they wanted to get out of the country. He predicted correctly that Soviet girls would even end up working in Asia in countries that were poorer than Poland/Russia just to get out. Fast forward to 2021 and watch any youtube blog of the streets of Thailand or Phillipines and you will see blonde Russian girls waking the dusty streets plying their trade on tourists with US dollars. They also work as hostesses in HK, South Korea, Singapore and Japan.

ii) many girls want a good husband who will treat them well. In many of the Soviet countries young people are no longer religious and there has been social breakdown. Again my friend correctly predicted girls may not go to church but they don't want a husband from their country as a lot of their men are alcoholic and beat their wives. They think we western fellows are like knights in shining armour who will whisk them away to America or Australia.



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20 Jun 2021, 2:28 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
After reading you for a while, my best guess as to why western women reject you is that they perceive you as being "too much." You don't seem to let go, and you seem to drill deep down into all sorts of little details that don't matter to anyone else, and that others have a hard time seeing as relevant. When someone picks on every word spoken, including ones that have little to do with the point the speaker is trying to make, the speaker starts to feel like they have to walk on eggshells around the person. And it can feel invasive.

If you speak in the volume you write, it has to be hard to get a word in edgewise.

In contrast, the best way to make someone else feel good about their conversation with you is to get them talking about themself and things that interest them. I haven't really seen you approach conversation that way.

I'm not the first person here to tell you all this.
.


Whoa! brutal!



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20 Jun 2021, 2:49 am

cyberdad wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
After reading you for a while, my best guess as to why western women reject you is that they perceive you as being "too much." You don't seem to let go, and you seem to drill deep down into all sorts of little details that don't matter to anyone else, and that others have a hard time seeing as relevant. When someone picks on every word spoken, including ones that have little to do with the point the speaker is trying to make, the speaker starts to feel like they have to walk on eggshells around the person. And it can feel invasive.

If you speak in the volume you write, it has to be hard to get a word in edgewise.

In contrast, the best way to make someone else feel good about their conversation with you is to get them talking about themself and things that interest them. I haven't really seen you approach conversation that way.

I'm not the first person here to tell you all this.
.


Whoa! brutal!


I was worried it would come across that way, but the real point, in my eyes, is that this is something he has control over and can choose to change. He can learn to be more skillful in approach and conversation. It seems to me that it would be unfair to NOT point it out when it is a likely turn off trait that he can change.

It should be noted that a previous thread has pretty heavy bearing on my reading.


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20 Jun 2021, 3:01 am

cyberdad wrote:
a) I'll give the male/NT/western perspective which is i) they like the western look (and all that entails) ii) they think we are more experienced/broadminded iii) they think we won't lock them up at home barefoot and pregnant
iv) they don't want a mother-in-law living at home micro-managing them v) it will help with their social progression (they have been taught from a young age westerners are top of the food chain).


But these same reasons also apply to why Western women wouldn't want to date Asian men. So what we have is

--- Asian women prefer Western men due to reasons (i)--(iv)
--- Western women prefer Western men due to reasons (i)--(iv)

So then there is no difference between Asian women and Western women with regards to Western men. So what is it that made Western women more picky then?

cyberdad wrote:
Today I am not sure if Poles/Ukrainian young women still speak Russian but of course Russian girls still do.


As far as Ukrainians I know they do. As far as Polish I am not sure.

cyberdad wrote:
He predicted correctly that Soviet girls would even end up working in Asia in countries that were poorer than Poland/Russia just to get out.


Incidentally, this happens to be the mindset of my parents too. Whenever I mention how I consider applying to Russia they would strongly discourage me. My dad especially so -- so its good that my dad passed away. But my mom is not fan of my going there either.

However, I don't understand this mindset at all. Like you said, those countries in Asia are poorer than Poland/Russia. So if their issue is poverty, why would going to even poorer country address it? If their issue is something else, then what IS it?

When I asked my parents this question they come up with all kinds of excuses but they all sound like excuses. So I am wondering what are some of the REAL reasons why they try to leave Russia at all costs.