Time to be brutally honest with sperm donor seeking friend?

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Nades
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06 Jul 2021, 4:18 am

My female friends know their body clock is ticking away and one in particular is making me feel uncomfortable. She's 33 years old but very unhealthy and has quite severe mental health issues as well.

Rather than trying to offset this baggage with some positives in her life she just keeps doubling down on them and is utterly uncompromising. Not once has she looked for a job, lives on benefits and instead of addressing her very concerning weight, just gains more. Any attempt to tell her she should change her ways is met with accusations of misogyny. She's the perfect woman in her eyes and any man needs to look after her.....period.

Not surprisingly her questionable attitude to what men should be in her eyes has left her childless and alone and she's starting to worry. At the
11th hour she suddenly wants a kid, and she wants someone to do their business in a cup for her to obtain said kid. Not naturally but using a method similar to what I seen on farm animals. (Again, not very impressive to treat men or anyone for that matter like cattle)

She hinted that she wouldn't be averse to having sperm from me and I immediately rejected the offer. There is a big difference between helping a friend who made an effort in looking for and maintaing a relationship but has problems conceiving and a friend who's been lackluster and left it to the last minute. The former I would likely help, the latter not even if we were the last two people on earth. My first and possibly only "offspring" isn't going to be from doing my business in a cup and not being touched with a barge pole in the process Degrading as hell.

Conceiving aside. She can't look after a kid. She has no life experience to pass on to it and has her bipolar moments of complete meltdown. I will be no good for her or the kid .

My question is, is it time to be brutally honest and tell her to sleep in the bed she's made?



IsabellaLinton
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06 Jul 2021, 8:32 am

She's your friend, but you describe her in extremely unflattering terms. You blame and shame her because of her weight, her disability status, her mental health conditions, and the fact she's single. Then you assert she shouldn't have children and that you wouldn't help her if you were the last two people on Earth. Somehow, you find it appropriate to compare this woman with farm animals and barge ship imagery, but of course she's wrong to think you are misogynist. Then you want to mansplain and blame her a little more by saying "Sleep in the bed you've made" because you would consider helping anyone but her, so long as the woman will touch you sexually.

I hope your friend sees this post and runs for the hills.

She can get better sperm than yours, I'm sure.



Fnord
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06 Jul 2021, 8:40 am

I do not know Welsh law, but here in the 'States, artificial insemination without involving a doctor incurs the same paternal responsibilities as fathering a child the old-fashioned way.

In other words, a man that hands a container of his genetic material to a woman for her to impregnate herself with it can be held legally responsible for the maintenance of the resulting child.

Source:
 Kansas court says sperm donor must pay child support 

Send your friend to the nearest sperm bank, fertility clinic, or whatever the Welsh equivalent may be, and do not let her trick you into supporting her child for the next 20-25 years.


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magz
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06 Jul 2021, 8:50 am

I don't think being "brutally honest" would be a good idea but being firmly assertive - definitely.
Not wanting a child with someone you don't want to have a child with is perfectly normal.
Just as Fnord pointed out, you likely would be legally responsible for a child conceived that way.
So, my advice is: without unnecessary brutality, stick to firm "no".


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Mountain Goat
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06 Jul 2021, 9:04 am

Fnord wrote:
I do not know Welsh law, but here in the 'States, artificial insemination without involving a doctor incurs the same paternal responsibilities as fathering a child the old-fashioned way.

In other words, a man that hands a container of his genetic material to a woman for her to impregnate herself with it can be held legally responsible for the maintenance of the resulting child.

Source:
 Kansas court says sperm donor must pay child support 

Send your friend to the nearest sperm bank, fertility clinic, or whatever the Welsh equivalent may be, and do not let her trick you into supporting her child for the next 20-25 years.


Here in Wales (UK) sperm donors via official means (NHS) are now required to pay for childcare towards all the children which were born due to their sperm, and the donors have no control over which strangers and how many end up with it. Since the law changed a few years ago to do this, sperm donors have become very hard to find. In the past sperm donors were immune from childcare costs via official means because they had no control over where their sperm was used and there was no shortage of donors back before the laws changed.

So yes. 100% the donor is liable for childcare costs.



Fnord
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06 Jul 2021, 9:11 am

Mountain Goat wrote:
Fnord wrote:
I do not know Welsh law, but here in the 'States, artificial insemination without involving a doctor incurs the same paternal responsibilities as fathering a child the old-fashioned way.

In other words, a man that hands a container of his genetic material to a woman for her to impregnate herself with it can be held legally responsible for the maintenance of the resulting child.

Source:
 Kansas court says sperm donor must pay child support 

Send your friend to the nearest sperm bank, fertility clinic, or whatever the Welsh equivalent may be, and do not let her trick you into supporting her child for the next 20-25 years.
Here in Wales (UK) sperm donors via official means (NHS) are now required to pay for childcare towards all the children which were born due to their sperm, and the donors have no control over which strangers and how many end up with it. Since the law changed a few years ago to do this, sperm donors have become very hard to find. In the past sperm donors were immune from childcare costs via official means because they had no control over where their sperm was used and there was no shortage of donors back before the laws changed.

So yes. 100% the donor is liable for childcare costs.
Then Nades should DEFINITLY put some distance between himself and his friend, especially if she invites him over for a few drinks with her and Mickey Finn.


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IsabellaLinton
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06 Jul 2021, 9:12 am

^

Of course he should say no, because he doesn't want to. He has no obligation to help his friend.

The woman hasn't even asked him directly, or stated directly, that she wants his participation. She has only hinted. In response he feels it appropriate to shame her on the internet, and to consider being "brutal honest" in a pointed confrontation which will insult her character.

If they are indeed friends I hope he can speak to her with more respect when and if she brings up the topic.

"No" will suffice, without the extraneous criticism.

I think the bigger question is whether or not he should remain in friendship with this woman at all, if he has such a low regard for her life choices. That to me is the disconnect.



Nades
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06 Jul 2021, 9:37 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
^

Of course he should say no, because he doesn't want to. He has no obligation to help his friend.

The woman hasn't even asked him directly, or stated directly, that she wants his participation. She has only hinted. In response he feels it appropriate to shame her on the internet, and to consider being "brutal honest" in a pointed confrontation which will insult her character.

If they are indeed friends I hope he can speak to her with more respect when and if she brings up the topic.

"No" will suffice, without the extraneous criticism.

I think the bigger question is whether or not he should remain in friendship with this woman at all, if he has such a low regard for her life choices. That to me is the disconnect.


Shamed who on the internet? I never remotely came close to identifying her. She very strongly hinted at me and told me she's looking for sperm donors because she can't afford IVF.

There is nothing really wrong with being critical of someone's life choices too, friend or not. She's spent close to two decades with an off-putting and contradictory view that the men she's met were below her yet insists they look after her. Some of the men have been great guys but she's driven them away by her overbearing "men do what I say" attitude which I've warned her about for years.

Now when her ship is getting ready to sail she wants a guy to "deposit" some sperm in a cup for her. Itself very crass considering her complete lack of mutual interest in them throughout her life. It appears her last few interactions with men is treating them like a vending machine. Yuck.

I've also said very clearly that I won't be doing that for her but I also don't want her to ask other men considering she probably can't handle a kid and that the man's "effort" is best spent on something more meaningful.



Nades
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06 Jul 2021, 9:41 am

Fnord wrote:
Mountain Goat wrote:
Fnord wrote:
I do not know Welsh law, but here in the 'States, artificial insemination without involving a doctor incurs the same paternal responsibilities as fathering a child the old-fashioned way.

In other words, a man that hands a container of his genetic material to a woman for her to impregnate herself with it can be held legally responsible for the maintenance of the resulting child.

Source:
 Kansas court says sperm donor must pay child support 

Send your friend to the nearest sperm bank, fertility clinic, or whatever the Welsh equivalent may be, and do not let her trick you into supporting her child for the next 20-25 years.
Here in Wales (UK) sperm donors via official means (NHS) are now required to pay for childcare towards all the children which were born due to their sperm, and the donors have no control over which strangers and how many end up with it. Since the law changed a few years ago to do this, sperm donors have become very hard to find. In the past sperm donors were immune from childcare costs via official means because they had no control over where their sperm was used and there was no shortage of donors back before the laws changed.

So yes. 100% the donor is liable for childcare costs.
Then Nades should DEFINITLY put some distance between himself and his friend, especially if she invites him over for a few drinks with her and Mickey Finn.


Haha don't worry I've said I'm not interested whatsoever in it. The exception will perhaps be a well to do friend who has actually put effort into building a stable relationship with men over the years but that scenario will be an absolute last resort.

The donation laws suck here. I knew they would be bad but damn.

I guess she needs to make some pretty quick lifestyle changes or get used to sleeping in that bed she's spent the last 15 years making.



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06 Jul 2021, 9:48 am

How does...

"She's spent close to two decades with an off-putting and contradictory view that the men she's met were below her yet insists they look after her. Some of the men have been great guys but she's driven them away by her overbearing "men do what I say" attitude which I've warned her about for years."

... differ from ...

"He has spent most of his adult life with an off-putting and contradictory view that the women he has met were all skanks and hos yet insists they should all f███ him.  He has driven them all away with his overbearing 'men should be in charge' attitude."

... ?

It seems to me that if the roles were reversed, there would be no hesitation to call out the person for being an Incel, a Toxic Male, or both.  Why should toxic women be treated any differently?


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Nades
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06 Jul 2021, 10:52 am

Fnord wrote:
How does...

"She's spent close to two decades with an off-putting and contradictory view that the men she's met were below her yet insists they look after her. Some of the men have been great guys but she's driven them away by her overbearing "men do what I say" attitude which I've warned her about for years."

... differ from ...

"He has spent most of his adult life with an off-putting and contradictory view that the women he has met were all skanks and hos yet insists they should all f███ him.  He has driven them all away with his overbearing 'men should be in charge' attitude."

... ?

It seems to me that if the roles were reversed, there would be no hesitation to call out the person for being an Incel, a Toxic Male, or both.  Why should toxic women be treated any differently?


Now that you put it that way, you're right. She's actually boisterous and easy going enough as a friend but seems like a nightmare and very needy in relationships. She thinks men are servants and little more. To give her credit, she does clean the flat when in a relationship but it seems more like a half arsed token gesture considering it's actually a small flat with only two people living in it. Vacuum cleaner around for 10 mins a day and it's pretty much done. This is in comparison to the guy often working full time. All in all, it's no wonder the guys have enough of her.

The relationship version of her swapped out with a man reminds me of a guy who sits at home all day long, eats far to much and expects to be looked after while his lady spends all day in work. After several failed relationships, he now wants a random woman to bend over and fish out an egg from her vagina with a straw while he sits in the other room ready to mix it with his sperm and shove it in a test tube to create the perfect test tube baby. I imagine he also wants to cut all ties with the woman who gave him the egg after he's made the baby too...........there is almost something inhuman about it. Like something out of some weird dystopian science fiction novel.

That's something for me to dwell on for the next few hours. It;s no wonder why I frown on what she's got planned.



Nades
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06 Jul 2021, 11:00 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
She's your friend, but you describe her in extremely unflattering terms. You blame and shame her because of her weight, her disability status, her mental health conditions, and the fact she's single. Then you assert she shouldn't have children and that you wouldn't help her if you were the last two people on Earth. Somehow, you find it appropriate to compare this woman with farm animals and barge ship imagery, but of course she's wrong to think you are misogynist. Then you want to mansplain and blame her a little more by saying "Sleep in the bed you've made" because you would consider helping anyone but her, so long as the woman will touch you sexually.

I hope your friend sees this post and runs for the hills.

She can get better sperm than yours, I'm sure.


Only just read this post. Interesting. Still don't care about anything you said though. Is there literally anything whatsoever flattering about what she's doing?.......no? Enough said.



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06 Jul 2021, 11:27 am

Nades wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
She's your friend, but you describe her in extremely unflattering terms. You blame and shame her because of her weight, her disability status, her mental health conditions, and the fact she's single. Then you assert she shouldn't have children and that you wouldn't help her if you were the last two people on Earth. Somehow, you find it appropriate to compare this woman with farm animals and barge ship imagery, but of course she's wrong to think you are misogynist. Then you want to mansplain and blame her a little more by saying "Sleep in the bed you've made" because you would consider helping anyone but her, so long as the woman will touch you sexually.

I hope your friend sees this post and runs for the hills.

She can get better sperm than yours, I'm sure.


Only just read this post. Interesting. Still don't care about anything you said though. Is there literally anything whatsoever flattering about what she's doing?.......no? Enough said.


I'm not defending her or you. Maybe she'd be a good parent. Maybe she wouldn't.

You're certainly within your rights to decide you don't want to help her.

I just don't understand why you'd consider laying it all on the table and insulting her, when she hasn't even asked your opinion or for your participation.

And why is she your friend at all, if you think so poorly of her?



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06 Jul 2021, 11:43 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Nades wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
She's your friend, but you describe her in extremely unflattering terms. You blame and shame her because of her weight, her disability status, her mental health conditions, and the fact she's single. Then you assert she shouldn't have children and that you wouldn't help her if you were the last two people on Earth. Somehow, you find it appropriate to compare this woman with farm animals and barge ship imagery, but of course she's wrong to think you are misogynist. Then you want to mansplain and blame her a little more by saying "Sleep in the bed you've made" because you would consider helping anyone but her, so long as the woman will touch you sexually.

I hope your friend sees this post and runs for the hills.

She can get better sperm than yours, I'm sure.


Only just read this post. Interesting. Still don't care about anything you said though. Is there literally anything whatsoever flattering about what she's doing?.......no? Enough said.


I'm not defending her or you. Maybe she'd be a good parent. Maybe she wouldn't.

You're certainly within your rights to decide you don't want to help her.

I just don't understand why you'd consider laying it all on the table and insulting her, when she hasn't even asked your opinion or for your participation.

And why is she your friend at all, if you think so poorly of her?


She's actually OK in person as a friend. The issues she has is in relationships. I sound unflattering when describing her, but sadly she's a very unflattering woman when it comes to relationships so I can't really paint her in a good light.

What Fnord said about reversing the sexes was spot on. What if she's an overweight, unemployed man who refused to ever lose weight and treated women as personal carers. After years of breakups and having no interest in improving himself he decides he wants a kid and starts looking for random women, who he refuses to touch with a barge pole to strip off and fish around in their uterus with a straw in his living room while waiting outside the door ready with a microscope and cup of his sperm.

Serious question now, would you want to be that woman with a straw and how will you view a man that asked you to do something like that?

That's is just creepy and exploitative when you swap the sexes around and probably hardened my views even more. A guy like that would probably be in a national newspaper if they ever caught wind and not in good way.



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06 Jul 2021, 11:57 am

I always turn the tables around. I already asked myself what if it was a man.

My answer is no different.

You say "No" and move on with no other criticism, especially if they haven't opened a meaningful dialogue.

If they want more input about your reasons, you have the right to say you don't want to make a baby.

You have a right to say no, with no reasons given.

Otherwise, you end the friendship if your values don't mesh.



IsabellaLinton
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06 Jul 2021, 12:05 pm

I'm laughing because the topic reminds me of Six Feet Under.

David and Keith are a gay couple who want a baby.

They go so far as to ask David's sister to donate her eggs to a surrogate.

She freaks out and says no -- but I can't find the clip.

I found these though. :P





Dream sequence with his sister holding a basket of eggs LMAO ^