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dorkseid
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07 Oct 2021, 10:28 am

badRobot wrote:

You can't have form a strong bond, experience good relationship if your brain can't synthesize at least oxytocin and serotonin when even one answer to questions in the first list is "no". This is not some self-help BS, this is a fact.


As I've explained, brain does that perfectly fine when I am at work.

badRobot wrote:
fusing to accept objective facts, the longer you will suffer.


Your personal biased opinions are not objective facts.

badRobot wrote:
Professional environment is a very different mode of motivation, it gives you structure and very clear directions, removes decision making factor, you don't rely on ambiguity of inner motivation, a lot of depressed people manage better in professional environment.


Actually, my work environment is extremely chaotic. I work with severe profound special education students, half of whom are 18 or older. They are physically adults. They can be disruptive and chaotic. One of them is the size of a lineman. Just a few days ago I had one of them decide he didn't want to get on the bus and laid on the ground in the middle traffic. My coworkers and I are often each busy too busy dealing with a certain student to help the others. Nothing you said about a typical professional environment applies here.



badRobot
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07 Oct 2021, 10:45 am

dorkseid wrote:
As I've explained, brain does that perfectly fine when I am at work.

Then you would have nothing to complain about. You understand very well that's not the case.

dorkseid wrote:
Your personal biased opinions are not objective facts.

This is not my personal opinion, this is human biochemistry. My opinion has no power there, I'm not god almighty.

dorkseid wrote:
Actually, my work environment is extremely chaotic. I work with severe profound special education students, half of whom are 18 or older. They are physically adults. They can be disruptive and chaotic. One of them is the size of a lineman. Just a few days ago I had one of them decide he didn't want to get on the bus and laid on the ground in the middle traffic. My coworkers and I are often each busy too busy dealing with a certain student to help the others. Nothing you said about a typical professional environment applies here.

Ah, then it applies even more, stress system doesn't depend on reward system at all, that's why people procrastinate until last moment, can't motivate themselves to do anything until stress system takes over. If your work environment is chaotic and stressful in addition to having strict rules and regulations, it makes even more sense that you don't feel depressed there until you come back to environment where reward system supposed to take over after a stressful day.



nick007
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07 Oct 2021, 12:03 pm

dorkseid wrote:
badRobot wrote:
Your subjective perception of your experience. What it really means is that you had remissions of your clinical depression, and that's why you were able to experience these connections.


And of course you are the one person who is perfectly objective and has biases of their own. Am I right?

badRobot wrote:
Do you workout regularly?
Do you have enough direct sunlight every day?
Do you eat healthy food?
Do you regularly spend time just breathing fresh air, looking at trees, grass, water, animals?

If you make sure your answer to ALL these questions is a confident "yes" for like a week, you will notice two things:
a) you don't really give two s**ts about being single, it doesn't make you feel miserable anymore
b) those connections that make feel better magically happen much more often and almost effortlessly


Bullsh*t!

Yes, those things are all important. But they are not the only factors. The research you are pulling from took for granted the assumption that everyone has some level of family, social, and sexual connection in their lives and never is never deprived of any of those for any significant amount of time. Chronically lonely people are neglected by research, just like we're neglected in every other aspect of society, and as a result the research fails to acknowledge us. I can attest that I did in the past do everything on your list, and I have reliable documentation from medical professionals that it did not help. And no, all that will not make someone stop caring about being lonely. Anybody who has experienced true long term chronic loneliness knows that, but it is nearly impossible for anyone who hasn't to comprehend that.

I currently work in a severe-profound special education classroom. Working with the children takes my mind off of my
own problems and being around coworkers who are open and accepting of ND people makes my depression go away. I genuinely feel like a completely different person when I'm at work vs home alone. This demonstrates that it is social connection that does the most to combat depression.

Allow me to fix your list for you:

Do you have enough direct sunlight every day?
Do you eat healthy food?
Do you regularly spend time just breathing fresh air, looking at trees, grass, water, animals?
Do you have a good relationship with your family and a thriving social and sex life?
It sounds like his whole post was being sarcastic with this part :arrow:
badRobot wrote:
b) those connections that make feel better magically happen much more often and almost effortlessly
Magically Happen :tongue: What potion do we need to drink or what spell do we need to cast to make the magic happen :?: Do we need to find a voodoo witch or do we need to find Penn & Teller :?:


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badRobot
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07 Oct 2021, 12:24 pm

nick007 wrote:

badRobot wrote:
b) those connections that make feel better magically happen much more often and almost effortlessly
Magically Happen :tongue: What potion do we need to drink or what spell do we need to cast to make the magic happen :?: Do we need to find a voodoo witch or do we need to find Penn & Teller :?:

Do you really want me to explain meaning of word 'magically' used in this context? I know I should be aware that people on the spectrum tend to take words literally, and probably should have used quotation marks, but when I'm talking to high functioning people who are aware of their condition I expect them to understand that it doesn't mean literal magic as well.



badRobot
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07 Oct 2021, 12:27 pm

But in fact it's a good analogy. Our subjective perception of our experiences, our emotions is basically like a magic show of Penn & Teller, just illusions. Biochemistry is how these tricks actually work.



dorkseid
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07 Oct 2021, 1:00 pm

badRobot wrote:
nick007 wrote:

badRobot wrote:
b) those connections that make feel better magically happen much more often and almost effortlessly
Magically Happen :tongue: What potion do we need to drink or what spell do we need to cast to make the magic happen :?: Do we need to find a voodoo witch or do we need to find Penn & Teller :?:

Do you really want me to explain meaning of word 'magically' used in this context? I know I should be aware that people on the spectrum tend to take words literally, and probably should have used quotation marks, but when I'm talking to high functioning people who are aware of their condition I expect them to understand that it doesn't mean literal magic as well.


The word magic is never ever used in any kind of scientific context.



dorkseid
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07 Oct 2021, 1:02 pm

badRobot wrote:
This is not my personal opinion, this is human biochemistry. My opinion has no power there, I'm not god almighty.


No. It is your subjective biased interpretation of human biochemistry.

That you describe emotions as magic and illusions proves that.



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07 Oct 2021, 1:21 pm

dorkseid wrote:
The word magic is never ever used in any kind of scientific context.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=magic

Wait, why am I wasting my time again? Bye.



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07 Oct 2021, 3:06 pm

A list of scientific papers discussing erroneous beliefs in magic does not make magic scientific.



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07 Oct 2021, 6:28 pm

F-ck no. At one time I didn't care and did enjoy it, and do kinda still. But never really being able to relate to others in any meaningful way does start to get tiresome eventually.


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magz
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08 Oct 2021, 2:26 am

 ! magz wrote:
Some post have been removed.
Personal attacks are against WP rules.
Rejecting advice is a legitimate behavior that has to be tolerated.


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nick007
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08 Oct 2021, 5:15 am

magz wrote:
You've contributed your share of advice. That's perfectly okay.
When someone - for any reason - rejects some advice, it's their choice and their responsibility.
You can listen to counter-arguments to think on how to improve your advice - or you can accept that you can't save everyone. What I ask you not to do is entering endless "you're wrong" exchanges with depressed users.
In particular, never use "it's your fault that your're depressed" kind of argument. From the point of view of a person struggling with mental health, it's a perfect example of adding insult to injury.
I agree. There is only so much we can do to get others to understand our perspective on things. After a certain point the more someone pushes, the more steadfast the other becomes on their position. Sometimes it's best if you agree to disagree & move on. That's advice that I know I need to remind myself of more. I can get caught up in a heated debate or disagreement.
I see the "it's your fault that your're depressed" kind of argument as a form of victim blaming sometimes.


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08 Oct 2021, 7:57 am

 ! Cornflake wrote:
Further argumentative off-topic posts have been removed.

I strongly advise that no more are made and the thread is returned to the topic.


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badRobot
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08 Oct 2021, 9:09 am

nick007 wrote:
magz wrote:
You've contributed your share of advice. That's perfectly okay.
When someone - for any reason - rejects some advice, it's their choice and their responsibility.
You can listen to counter-arguments to think on how to improve your advice - or you can accept that you can't save everyone. What I ask you not to do is entering endless "you're wrong" exchanges with depressed users.
In particular, never use "it's your fault that your're depressed" kind of argument. From the point of view of a person struggling with mental health, it's a perfect example of adding insult to injury.
I agree. There is only so much we can do to get others to understand our perspective on things. After a certain point the more someone pushes, the more steadfast the other becomes on their position. Sometimes it's best if you agree to disagree & move on. That's advice that I know I need to remind myself of more. I can get caught up in a heated debate or disagreement.
I see the "it's your fault that your're depressed" kind of argument as a form of victim blaming sometimes.


If one seeks the answer to a question "How am I supposed to be happy?" more often than not the answer is overcoming your own erroneous beliefs. It is impossible to answer this question without challenging these erroneous beliefs. Pointing out these misbeliefs has nothing to do with victim blaming, this just another level of answering this question.

The "simple" answer to the question "How am I supposed to be happy?" is make sure your answer to these questions consistently is a confident "yes":
- Do you workout regularly?
- Do you have enough direct sunlight every day?
- Do you eat healthy food?
- Do you regularly spend time just breathing fresh air, looking at trees, grass, water, animals?

If you refuse to believe this answer, It really complicates this situation.
The "complicated" answer to the question "How am I supposed to be happy?" becomes: Overcome your argumentative mindset and consider accepting objective facts instead of trying to "obliterate argument" just for the sake of it. Accept that answer might be uncomfortable. Then see the "simple" answer.

Challenging these beliefs is part of the answer to the main question of this topic. Discussion of these beliefs is the only way for OP has to achieve his goal. If you are not allowed to have this discussion, this whole thread is pointless.

This is not argumentative off-topic, this is my opinion on the original topic of this thread.



kraftiekortie
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08 Oct 2021, 9:14 am

You might not like this:

But I prefer being single to being married----though being married can be okay sometimes.



dorkseid
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08 Oct 2021, 9:19 am

Give it a rest, man. You've just been repeating ad nausium the same argument that has already been debunked by myself and others. Yes, the things you are talking about are important. But so is a healthy social life. If someone has no friends or a good relationship with family, then not all the exercise, healthy eating, or Vitamin D in the world will help. I and others have already told you that we personally experienced this.