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ironpony
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15 Jan 2022, 4:53 pm

Oh okay, I am just going by my own experiences and women back in my early 20s would go for guys in their 30s and it seems like that is what is happening to me now in my 30s, and it comes around full circle, but that is just my experience so far.



AngelRho
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15 Jan 2022, 11:39 pm

KMCIURA wrote:
Very good point there, AngelRho. I too think that being an incel is all about mindset, not looks, money and so on.

There's a guy suffering from Duchenne muscular dystrophy. Hardly can move his limbs, needs to be connected to ventilator all the time, uses electric wheelchair. The guy is activist for rights and visibility of people with disabilities, supporter of LGBTQ communities, women's rights and so on. Works as journalist and is what I would call "an attractive mind". In past few years, he became pretty known in my country.

He is engaged with a great, beautiful woman, they'll marry this year and have been together for years. Met way before he gained any fame. They talk about interablistic relationships, giving interviews recently and yes - they also talk about sex. Seeing that erection doesn't rely on muscles, he is able to have an intercourse. They even starred in Durex ad campaign recently - "Love, just how you like it" is the headline of it.

This guy was, for his whole life, in massively worse position when it comes to fitness, looks, ability, financial status, than most likely 99% of people in incelsphere. Yet, he has found a partner and have a sex life. Why? Because he is interesting, caring and open-minded human being. It boils down to that.

I do not really like a word "Chad". I've met many attractive, extrovert guys who were very fine people and respected people near them and maintained healthy relationships. My close cousin is one, he's been with his now wife since high school, it was his second girlfriend and they are a happy couple. He is simply not a douchebag. There's no rule of thumb, really - yes, attractive guys do have easier time getting sex (just like attractive women), but not all of them want to or see sex as something that important. This looks thing is mostly about one night stands and short term hookups anyway. As you've said, being in a relationship requires effort and looks canny carry you only so far.

I've slept with few women in my life, never had to use any tricks to get them in bed. I am average looking guy with troubles in socialising, but what I can give is attention, understanding, care, companionship and deep conversation. This was enough. I've never really had to chase after girls, either, it always kind of unfolded from friendship and came to be in natural way, without any pressure.

I was once in a relationship with a married woman, it lasted two years. She was a person with high emotional needs and her husband was not giving her enough attention - he was focused on his hobbies, playing basketball, going out with pals, going onto road trips with them and so on. Even said that she does have friends to talk to about "girly stuff" and that he wants to be her man, not her girlfriend. She wasn't sex-starved, because one thing he was giving her, was sex. I worked with her, it turned out that we live close to each other, it kind of went from there. First just talking, hanging out, then a first kiss and rest is history.

Eventually, even though I had genuine feelings towards her (and believed when she told me it's mutual), I gave up on this relationship as it was going nowhere. She couldn't get herself to leave him, because she was coming from a very traditional, Christian background. Her friends, family - all of these people absolutely adored her husband - a tall, good looking (although no my type, definitely), conservative man pursuing a career of lawyer. She was afraid that if she would leave him, her whole life will fall apart - her mother, dad, sisters, friends, all of those people will reject her and put the blame on her. Plus, she was religious herself and on top of all of that believed that a marriage is a promise to god. This was most likely a genuine thing, I am atheist and she desperately wanted to convince me that god does exist to "save my soul from suffering, because I am too good for that". She even took me to church once to speak with a priest - a distant friend of hers. Kind of ironic, seeing that she banged a guy on the side, but I think her religious upbringing was not making it any easier for her.

I have maintained a bit of contact after ending it, seeing that we were still working in the same office for next few month until I switched jobs. It was a clean-cut. I bought some MJ from a guy from work, had a joint rolled and ready, invited her to my home, told her that this is it - either she decides to be with me, of him. Of course, she said that she cannot leave him for all of the reasons I've listed above. Started to cry - I've never seen anyone crying so hard. Gave her a joint (I am almost insensitive to alkaloids, weed doesn't do anything for me, but she smoked from time to time) to calm her nerves, made her a coffee and let her pull herself together. Told her that if this is her decision, I respect that, but I have to move on, as I want a real relationship, not just being a guy on the side - I want to be able to hang out with a girl without being on a clock, without worrying about other man's schedule, for her to stay in for the night and wake up alongside her - all sorts of these things. Advised her to never tell him, if she doesn't want to lose him too and told her to go home.

She tried very hard to play it cool for next few weeks. Still, she instinctively reached out to kiss me when we were saying goodbye (remember, we were working together still and quite often took the same bus home). Addressed me as "darling" or "my love" several times, still.

One day, she told me that she had a conversation with her husband - she was visibly struggling after I called it quit and became interested why his wife is so low and withdrawn. She has told him everything. You know what the dude said (presumably, I weren't there)?

"I suspected something, but was sure that such thing cannot happen to me."

What an as*hole, I mean. He thought that he is too good to be cheated on!

I couldn't understand why she has told him, so asked her straight about it. Response was "I was not sure of anything, any more and wanted to see what will happen". It was obvious that she was counting on him leaving her, so she can get back with me without taking burden of making a decision on her shoulders. But he didn't and she has not seemed happy about it.

It wasn't my problem. I was already seeing another girl, one that has eventually became my wife.

As for them, they have stayed together after that. Attended some marriage therapy at church. I do not know the rest, have not maintained contact after switching jobs.

I guess that's the problem that both stereotypical "Chads" and incels share. They do not pay attention to women and take them for granted. Instead of trying to be a good companion. Difference is, first ones get into relationships because of their looks and charisma, while others do not get into any as all cards are laid bare in their case.

I've once read a perfectly adequate sentence:

Don't ever make your woman go to another man for emotional support. A shoulder to cry on becomes a dick to ride on.

On a side note: I used Nazism only as an example of toxic, barbaric ideology which attracted people from different backgrounds and to highlight the fact that they were still, all Nazis - the path they took to get there is irrelevant. By no means I was saying that incel ideology is having a "framework" akin to Nazism.

Well, incel ideology is inherently collectivist, and that does put it in the same as league as national socialism and communism. I was just pointing out that it has more in common with communism. It’s like national socialism and fascism are right-wing and communism is left-wing, both opposite ways of approaching the same end.

I prefer an Objectivist tack, redefining romantic love in terms of shared values and relying less on emotion. Love is an action that produces results, not something you just feel in your heart. Your SO is your ideal man or woman, your intellectual equal, someone who admires your worth and pledges to follow you in everything. The opposite is the greedy, parasitic narcissist, or the helplessly needy, envy-driven person that greedy people feed off of. Or you get two toxic, needy, co-dependents together. You can’t have a loving relationship built on true equality and fairness because one will ultimately always demand more of the other. But if it comes down to loving someone for all they add to your life simply by being present, love is easier to express.

I don't like the terms “Chad,” “Becky,” and alpha/beta male, etc., but those end up being the most concise terms to use. Women have every right to expect men to be handsome, strong, and intelligent. Men have every right to expect women to be beautiful and subservient. And if that sounds sexist, understand that what matters is if those things matter to individual men and women themselves. Stay at home wives, for example, are highly empowered women BECAUSE their husbands value them enough to reward them, and they in turn can realize their own dreams while keeping house and raising children. These men and women don’t simply regard the other as important to them—they see themselves as important for their own sake and worthy of a powerful spouse. They won’t tolerate mistreatment, and they aren’t afraid to take what they want from their mate because they know it’s a two-way street.

The incel mentality demands fairness and equality when the incel has nothing to offer. But it’s worse than not having anything to offer. It’s having no intention to ever offer anything. The incel is a victim who is OWED special treatment without any desire to actually EARN the right to have sex with someone. I somewhat admire the enterprising nature of prostitution. But I find it disgusting because it reduces the human mind and body to something that can be traded or borrowed for far less than its actual worth. You’re paying money to get access to a body you’ve done nothing to deserve. What incels are really doing by identifying as victims is manifesting the value they have for complaining about not having what they don’t deserve to have when their real problem is they don’t even love themselves enough to try to fix the problems causing their involuntary celibacy in the first place.



ironpony
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16 Jan 2022, 3:38 am

Well one thing I have noticed about incel men is that if you watch some of these videos and screenshots of them, they do not look like the best groomed or dressed. Their hair is out of order, and they do not groom their facial hair as well either.

They also do not wear the best clothes. Let's put it this way. You never see a screenshot of a guy claiming to be incel, who is dressed in a classy looking shirt and pants, and classy looking hair, with a suit jacket tossed over his shoulder, as he smirks confidently.

So when incel men say they are giving it their all, are they really I have to ask...



cyberdad
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16 Jan 2022, 3:51 am

ironpony wrote:
Well one thing I have noticed about incel men is that if you watch some of these videos and screenshots of them, they do not look like the best groomed or dressed. Their hair is out of order, and they do not groom their facial hair as well either.

They also do not wear the best clothes. Let's put it this way. You never see a screenshot of a guy claiming to be incel, who is dressed in a classy looking shirt and pants, and classy looking hair, with a suit jacket tossed over his shoulder, as he smirks confidently.

So when incel men say they are giving it their all, are they really I have to ask...


So after your Kyle Rittenhouse documentary do you plan to do a film on incels?



txfz1
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16 Jan 2022, 9:44 am

cyberdad wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Well one thing I have noticed about incel men is that if you watch some of these videos and screenshots of them, they do not look like the best groomed or dressed. Their hair is out of order, and they do not groom their facial hair as well either.

They also do not wear the best clothes. Let's put it this way. You never see a screenshot of a guy claiming to be incel, who is dressed in a classy looking shirt and pants, and classy looking hair, with a suit jacket tossed over his shoulder, as he smirks confidently.

So when incel men say they are giving it their all, are they really I have to ask...


So after your Kyle Rittenhouse documentary do you plan to do a film on incels?


Why do you have such a hardon for ironpony?



WantToHaveALife
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18 Jan 2022, 10:06 pm

ya, i don't know why a certain sexual experience from 2008 came back to haunt me years later, feels like its torturing my psyche now