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JimJohn
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02 Jan 2022, 1:50 pm

ironpony wrote:
JimJohn wrote:
ironpony wrote:
When it comes to ASD people still being virgins, is it really difficult to find other people with ASD or other disadvantages that may cause a person to, not have as high of standards when looking for a partner?


I think there are issues of fear and ego involved with people in these situations. I know I have those issues. I should stop posting. It would help to know your perspective to answer the question.

Personally, I feel like I have to jump through strange hoops to act upon sexual desires. Perhaps, to NT people the hoops don't seem strange. As far as a partner, I am not sure why I would want a partner for ever and ever. It seems convoluted. It seems like a sick narrative invented by a beaurocracy.

As a side note:

When I hear a question similiar to this one where someone implies it is not hard to find someone, I think that the perspective does not include people who are not on a sexual radar. When people think about having sex, some people are not on the radar. But to your point, I imagine having ASD doesn't not automatically take people off of the radar. I am sure it is more self inflicted or things that appear self inflicted. I apologize if this is stupid or not reflective of reality.


Oh okay, thanks for your perspective. What do you mean by this " It seems like a sick narrative invented by a beaurocracy."?


When I said fear and ego, I was talking about reasons why someone remains a virgin (not reasons someone looses their virginity).

There is an idea that there is a feminine imperative and there is a masculine imperative. The feminine imperative is the prevailing narrative. People are organized by beaurocracies.

People should be genuinely afraid of going against the feminine imperative. Males are ego invested in the feminine imperative to varying degrees through indoctrination.

I actually think that you know what I meant but that I can't remotely answer the question without going against the feminine imperative. If I say something contrary to the feminine imperative, society collectively thinks I should be run over by a truck.

The feminine imperative promotes women finding the best genes for her offspring and providing support for their offspring. The male imperative is to procreate as often as possible. Each is in the best interest of replication of an individuals genome but they are in conflict. They are present because of biological instincts shaped by evolution.



ironpony
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02 Jan 2022, 1:58 pm

Oh okay. Are you saying that most women biologically will not desire an ASD man, because their genes are not as strong to them therefore?



JimJohn
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02 Jan 2022, 2:08 pm

Rexi wrote:
I honestly don't understand men who are wrecks and dont care about women, but want to meet them just for experience or to feel better about themselves in life cause otherwise hey feel like failures, but in doing so theyre by definition worse, because being a douche is worse than being a virgin.


I lost my virginity because I had a sex drive and enjoy having sex with women. Personally, I would not charactorize it as having an experience. It is an experience that I want to have over and over with multiple women with traits that signify fertility until the day I die.

That is the masculine imperative. Perhaps, not achieving the masculine imperative makes someone feel like a failure and a wreck. Achieving it makes someone feel better about themselves. As far as caring: I like the example of a grizzly bear caring for it's cubs. A mother grizzly bear cares a lot about its cubs but not for the person that gets in between itself and its cubs.



kraftiekortie
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02 Jan 2022, 2:17 pm

Forget about effin genes!

Plenty of people with “strong genes” have trouble getting dates.

Plenty of people with “weak genes” do very well.



JimJohn
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02 Jan 2022, 2:38 pm

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay. Are you saying that most women biologically will not desire an ASD man, because their genes are not as strong to them therefore?


It would have to be a secondary characteristic that was a turn off. It is similar to a man being attractive to traits that signal fertility but not caring if a woman is truly fertile. Reading the results of a fertility test or an ASD test is not a turn on or a turn off.

I hope I am not overly annoying anyone. I read crazy stuff and some of it interests me.



JimJohn
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02 Jan 2022, 2:47 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Forget about effin genes!

Plenty of people with “strong genes” have trouble getting dates.

Plenty of people with “weak genes” do very well.


You are right. Describing it as genes is not a functional way to look at it. It does explain some things and not others. It explains vague unimportant things that few people have an interest in or want to avoid.



WantToHaveALife
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04 Jan 2022, 4:27 am

it wouldn't surprise me if a large portion of males on the spectrum, even before stats became more public, as in, a lot of men on the spectrum, remain virgins than normal, as in, past 25



ironpony
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04 Jan 2022, 9:26 am

I don't know if this goes for other guys but I noticed that for some reason it's easier to get sex when I am in my 30s compared to my 20s. So I wonder if other guys have that too, where it's just easier as you get older, and maybe patience is key?



JimJohn
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04 Jan 2022, 12:17 pm

ironpony wrote:
I don't know if this goes for other guys but I noticed that for some reason it's easier to get sex when I am in my 30s compared to my 20s. So I wonder if other guys have that too, where it's just easier as you get older, and maybe patience is key?


Supposedly, a man's sexual market value is peaking in his thirties. A women's sexual market value is decreasing in her thirties.



WantToHaveALife
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08 Jan 2022, 9:29 am

JimJohn wrote:
ironpony wrote:
I don't know if this goes for other guys but I noticed that for some reason it's easier to get sex when I am in my 30s compared to my 20s. So I wonder if other guys have that too, where it's just easier as you get older, and maybe patience is key?


Supposedly, a man's sexual market value is peaking in his thirties. A women's sexual market value is decreasing in her thirties.


i remember hearing that



ironpony
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08 Jan 2022, 3:19 pm

WantToHaveALife wrote:
JimJohn wrote:
ironpony wrote:
I don't know if this goes for other guys but I noticed that for some reason it's easier to get sex when I am in my 30s compared to my 20s. So I wonder if other guys have that too, where it's just easier as you get older, and maybe patience is key?


Supposedly, a man's sexual market value is peaking in his thirties. A women's sexual market value is decreasing in her thirties.


i remember hearing that


It seems that way. But a lot of guys do not want to wait until their 30s though and be patient and optomistic it seems?



WantToHaveALife
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09 Jan 2022, 1:37 pm

ironpony wrote:
WantToHaveALife wrote:
JimJohn wrote:
ironpony wrote:
I don't know if this goes for other guys but I noticed that for some reason it's easier to get sex when I am in my 30s compared to my 20s. So I wonder if other guys have that too, where it's just easier as you get older, and maybe patience is key?


Supposedly, a man's sexual market value is peaking in his thirties. A women's sexual market value is decreasing in her thirties.


i remember hearing that


It seems that way. But a lot of guys do not want to wait until their 30s though and be patient and optomistic it seems?


ya my feelings have changed a lot towards paying for sex



ironpony
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12 Jan 2022, 12:47 am

Well even if prostitution is illegal what is stopping incel men still? I mean lots of guys still go for it, even though it's illegal, so what is stopping them even so?



KMCIURA
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12 Jan 2022, 7:57 am

ironpony wrote:
Well even if prostitution is illegal what is stopping incel men still? I mean lots of guys still go for it, even though it's illegal, so what is stopping them even so?


Log story short:

Incels believe that women are not equal to men. In fact, many view them as sub-humans, climbing heights of misogyny which make pre-emancipation movements gender stereotypes looking like a reasonable position.

A woman taking money for the service of having sex with a man is in position of power - she gets to decide who her clients are (in case of independent sex workers, at least - not those who function under umbrella of organised crime) and she gets the financial benefit out of it. A man is a client. Woman having any power over man is not in line with their world view.

Furthermore, vast majority of incels believe that they are entitled to having sex and that women owe them sex and have a duty of satisfying their needs. They want sex to be freely available ("freeuse fetish" most likely came from incels) without any effort, even financial, on their end.

A lot of alt-right men (group which overlaps with incel bubble) also dream of "tradwife". They want a woman who stayed virgin until marriage with them, who fits the traditional role of housekeeping wife and is submissive to her partner. Funnily enough, at the same time they want these women to be open minded when it comes to sex, having a massive sex drive all the time and being real devils in bed ahaha. I guess they do not realise that they want two different women :lol: Anyway - those who are into this tradwife stuff perceive women who had sex with other men, especially with multiple partners, as "dirty" and "used" (in "second-hand" meaning). This is why this particular group do not want to use services of a sex worker.

On a sidenote - prostitution is not illegal in most places on earth. In most of them, however, it is illegal to reap fruits of other people's sex work - i.e. being a pimp or running a brothel. As for a person to provide sex services, it is a grey area - it is not legalised, recognised and regulated as a profession, because of conservative morality which still dominate discourse in most of the countries, but also not a crime. This can result in pretty hilarious outcomes: any income from providing sex services is not taxed, for example. Over here, in Poland, there were cases of people who were stating in their tax forms that what they've earned came from prostitution to avoid paying taxes. I think this loophole has been closed somehow, but I remember that 15 years ago there were cases of businessmen who were making big money and declaring that all of it came from, basically, selling their ass xD



ironpony
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12 Jan 2022, 9:28 am

KMCIURA wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Well even if prostitution is illegal what is stopping incel men still? I mean lots of guys still go for it, even though it's illegal, so what is stopping them even so?


Log story short:

Incels believe that women are not equal to men. In fact, many view them as sub-humans, climbing heights of misogyny which make pre-emancipation movements gender stereotypes looking like a reasonable position.

A woman taking money for the service of having sex with a man is in position of power - she gets to decide who her clients are (in case of independent sex workers, at least - not those who function under umbrella of organised crime) and she gets the financial benefit out of it. A man is a client. Woman having any power over man is not in line with their world view.

Furthermore, vast majority of incels believe that they are entitled to having sex and that women owe them sex and have a duty of satisfying their needs. They want sex to be freely available ("freeuse fetish" most likely came from incels) without any effort, even financial, on their end.

A lot of alt-right men (group which overlaps with incel bubble) also dream of "tradwife". They want a woman who stayed virgin until marriage with them, who fits the traditional role of housekeeping wife and is submissive to her partner. Funnily enough, at the same time they want these women to be open minded when it comes to sex, having a massive sex drive all the time and being real devils in bed ahaha. I guess they do not realise that they want two different women :lol: Anyway - those who are into this tradwife stuff perceive women who had sex with other men, especially with multiple partners, as "dirty" and "used" (in "second-hand" meaning). This is why this particular group do not want to use services of a sex worker.

On a sidenote - prostitution is not illegal in most places on earth. In most of them, however, it is illegal to reap fruits of other people's sex work - i.e. being a pimp or running a brothel. As for a person to provide sex services, it is a grey area - it is not legalised, recognised and regulated as a profession, because of conservative morality which still dominate discourse in most of the countries, but also not a crime. This can result in pretty hilarious outcomes: any income from providing sex services is not taxed, for example. Over here, in Poland, there were cases of people who were stating in their tax forms that what they've earned came from prostitution to avoid paying taxes. I think this loophole has been closed somehow, but I remember that 15 years ago there were cases of businessmen who were making big money and declaring that all of it came from, basically, selling their ass xD


Oh okay I see. Well then why is there all this talk that incel men would be more satisfied if prostitution were legal, if legal doesn't have anything to do with it and it's about power...

Also, I find it surprising that men find prostitutes to have power, but I guess I am wrong and they often think that they are empowered and are turned on by that, or at least the ones who visit them?



JimJohn
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12 Jan 2022, 10:29 am

KMCIURA wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Well even if prostitution is illegal what is stopping incel men still? I mean lots of guys still go for it, even though it's illegal, so what is stopping them even so?


Log story short:

Incels believe that women are not equal to men. In fact, many view them as sub-humans, climbing heights of misogyny which make pre-emancipation movements gender stereotypes looking like a reasonable position.

A woman taking money for the service of having sex with a man is in position of power - she gets to decide who her clients are (in case of independent sex workers, at least - not those who function under umbrella of organised crime) and she gets the financial benefit out of it. A man is a client. Woman having any power over man is not in line with their world view.

Furthermore, vast majority of incels believe that they are entitled to having sex and that women owe them sex and have a duty of satisfying their needs. They want sex to be freely available ("freeuse fetish" most likely came from incels) without any effort, even financial, on their end.

A lot of alt-right men (group which overlaps with incel bubble) also dream of "tradwife". They want a woman who stayed virgin until marriage with them, who fits the traditional role of housekeeping wife and is submissive to her partner. Funnily enough, at the same time they want these women to be open minded when it comes to sex, having a massive sex drive all the time and being real devils in bed ahaha. I guess they do not realise that they want two different women :lol: Anyway - those who are into this tradwife stuff perceive women who had sex with other men, especially with multiple partners, as "dirty" and "used" (in "second-hand" meaning). This is why this particular group do not want to use services of a sex worker.

On a sidenote - prostitution is not illegal in most places on earth. In most of them, however, it is illegal to reap fruits of other people's sex work - i.e. being a pimp or running a brothel. As for a person to provide sex services, it is a grey area - it is not legalised, recognised and regulated as a profession, because of conservative morality which still dominate discourse in most of the countries, but also not a crime. This can result in pretty hilarious outcomes: any income from providing sex services is not taxed, for example. Over here, in Poland, there were cases of people who were stating in their tax forms that what they've earned came from prostitution to avoid paying taxes. I think this loophole has been closed somehow, but I remember that 15 years ago there were cases of businessmen who were making big money and declaring that all of it came from, basically, selling their ass xD


I like your post. I wanted to post something similar that said prostitution is not illegal in most places on earth. I imagine it is hard to say what any given incel thinks but your explanation seems as good as any. I didn't even know what an incel was until reading this thread and googling it.