If you could make the rules, what would they be?

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hurtloam
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16 Jan 2022, 2:05 pm

I wonder if these answers indicate that a lot of people on the spectrum feel completely powerless.

We don't even understand what the current rules are. How can we make new ones?

I'm apparently very likable, everyone says so, but nothing I am is ever enough to be loved romantically.

What rule is that? I don't know, so how can I change it?



Mona Pereth
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16 Jan 2022, 2:14 pm

An example: In my ideal world, there would no longer be the expectation that men must be the ones to make the first move. Women and men would be both equally free and equally likely to make the first move.

I never liked the idea of being constrained to a passive role. And I'm sure there are plenty of men who would prefer not to always have to be the one to make the first move, and who would like it if women would approach them.

I'm under the impression that there has been some progress in this regard, at least in some locales, but still far from equal.


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hurtloam
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16 Jan 2022, 2:19 pm

I've found that if women have to make the first move it's because the man isn't really interested. He might say yes, but it's because you're a stop gap until he finds what he really wants, then he'll magically develop the ability to go for what he wants and drop you like a hot potato.

Also, I've found if the woman has to ask the man, he has a need for her to always do everything for her. Who wants a dead weight looser who can't even ask you out. You'll be doing everything for this idiot. Don't buy their crap Mona.

Only time I've seen this work out is when she did initially ask him out, but broke up with him after a while and after a few weeks he went back to her and asked her out again. He did want her enough to make an effort.

Don't give weak men a pass to be weak. If I've got the guts to ask someone out all you dudes can too. If internet explorer can ask if you want to make it default, you can ask that woman out.



Mona Pereth
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16 Jan 2022, 2:28 pm

hurtloam wrote:
I've found that if women have to make the first move it's because the man isn't really interested. He might say yes, but it's because you're a stop gap until he find what he really wants, then he'll magically develop the ability to go for what he wants and drop you like a hot potato.

There's a deeper underlying cultural problem here, which is the cat-and-mouse aspect of most contemporary Western dating.

To overcome this and other common dating/courtship pathologies would require, IMO, an organized group/subculture of people committed to overcoming it.

More about this later.


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Last edited by Mona Pereth on 16 Jan 2022, 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AprilR
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16 Jan 2022, 2:30 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
An example: In my ideal world, there would no longer be the expectation that men must be the ones to make the first move. Women and men would be both equally free and equally likely to make the first move.

I never liked the idea of being constrained to a passive role. And I'm sure there are plenty of men who would prefer not to always have to be the one to make the first move, and who would like it if women would approach them.

I'm under the impression that there has been some progress in this regard, at least in some locales, but still far from equal.


I agree with this. People of both genders may feel insecure about relationships, and i never understood gender differences much either.

I live in a very sexist society where gender roles are strong, yet apparently it was my mother who proposed marriage to my father.



hurtloam
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16 Jan 2022, 2:34 pm

I used to feel like that. I used to argue with women who told me not to ask guys out or force things. "It'll just happen" they said.

Then my moves paid off and someone bit... He really liked my friend and eventually dumped me and married her.

All of my asking has never worked.

If he wanted to he would. I've got no more time for these idiots.

Everything is always our fault. It's never their fault.



Last edited by hurtloam on 16 Jan 2022, 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

txfz1
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16 Jan 2022, 2:35 pm

I'm not picking on you, just picking on your post. :D

How is that not about power? Women have the power of choice, its instinctual for a lot of species. We are on the third or fourth wave of feminism , yet it's the women that retain this power unless its just the stigma keeping it from occurring.

Consider the pacific salmon species, the female does not care which male milts the eggs. This works well for them, as they are dying anyway and no parental support is given or required. Humans are different as we require a big head and women don't want to die during childbirth. Would you want a society that perpetuates the single parent family, when she decides to have a child, the males start lining up, fastest one wins, second fastest may also win. The males just take off and start hunting for the next female that is ready.



Last edited by txfz1 on 16 Jan 2022, 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AprilR
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16 Jan 2022, 2:39 pm

hurtloam wrote:
I used to feel like that. I used to argue with women who told me not to ask guys out or force things. "It'll just happen" they said.

Then my moves paid off and someone bit... He really liked my friend and eventually dumped me and married her.

All of my asking has never worked.

If he wanted to he would. I've got no more time for these idiots. I borderline hate them and how they bring us women down.

Everything is always our fault. It's never their fault.


I am sorry you had such an experience.
My experience was quite the opposite in this regard actually.
I confessed to a long time friend, he declined politely but said he wanted to remain friends and we actually did remain friends. To this day, i appreciate this friendship i had with him.



hurtloam
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16 Jan 2022, 2:44 pm

txfz1 wrote:
I'm not picking on you, just picking on your post. :D

How is that not about power? Women have the power of choice, its instinctual for a lot of species. We are on the third or fourth wave of feminism , yet it's the women that retain this power unless its just the stigma keeping it from occurring.

Consider the pacific salmon species, the female does not care which male milts the eggs. This works well for them, as they are dying anyway and no parental support is given or required. Humans are different as we require a big head and women don't want to die during childbirth. Would you want a society that perpetuates the single parent family, when she decides to have a child, the males start lining up, fastest one wins, second fastest may also win. The males just take off and start hunting for the next female that is ready.


That's a ridiculous scenario. I'm going to ignore the salmon nonsense.

A choice of whom? No one, no one and no one. Women on the spectrum often don't have interest shown in them at all. They have no one to choose from and therefore no power.



Mona Pereth
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16 Jan 2022, 2:46 pm

hurtloam wrote:
I used to feel like that. I used to argue with women who told me not to ask guys out or force things. "It'll just happen" they said.

Then my moves paid off and someone bit... He really liked my friend and eventually dumped me and married her.

How long a period of time was this "eventually"?

hurtloam wrote:
All of my asking has never worked.

In an ideal world it would work at least sometimes, although in much of the current world it doesn't work.

But, even in the best of all possible worlds, there could never be a guarantee that attraction is mutual. There still would always be a risk of disappointment, either immediate or eventual, for whoever makes the first move.


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hurtloam
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16 Jan 2022, 2:51 pm

I actually can't remember how long. I thought he thought they were dates. Only the last one was apparently. We spent time with each other over about 2 years. It was very weird. Will they won't they.

Ok the rule is: anyone can ask anyone out, but only say yes if you really genuinely like them back and you're not using them as a placeholder.



Last edited by hurtloam on 16 Jan 2022, 2:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

txfz1
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16 Jan 2022, 2:51 pm

hurtloam wrote:
txfz1 wrote:
I'm not picking on you, just picking on your post. :D

How is that not about power? Women have the power of choice, its instinctual for a lot of species. We are on the third or fourth wave of feminism , yet it's the women that retain this power unless its just the stigma keeping it from occurring.

Consider the pacific salmon species, the female does not care which male milts the eggs. This works well for them, as they are dying anyway and no parental support is given or required. Humans are different as we require a big head and women don't want to die during childbirth. Would you want a society that perpetuates the single parent family, when she decides to have a child, the males start lining up, fastest one wins, second fastest may also win. The males just take off and start hunting for the next female that is ready.


That's a ridiculous scenario. I'm going to ignore the salmon nonsense.

A choice of whom? No one, no one and no one. Women on the spectrum often don't have interest shown in them at all. They have no one to choose from and therefore no power.


Sorry, I should quoted Mono. How is a fact nonsense. I understand you're hurt but you applied the "what if" to your real world. I did not intent for it to be hurtful as its hyperbole. I didn't think it would be taken that way. FWIW, I only feel true love with women on the spectrum.



hurtloam
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16 Jan 2022, 2:54 pm

Oh I know about salmon. I was a bit shocked when I discovered they literally fall apart towards the end of their life.

I mean we won't ever be in a salmon situation as humans with a queue of partners and we have to grab one quickly.

I'm not hurt, I like a good debate.



txfz1
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16 Jan 2022, 3:02 pm

Thank you for the clarification. Yeah, it's an extreme "what if" but still an example from nature. BTW, in today's real world men also have the power of choice. Yes, it's not as apparent, but your own example shows it and men choose who they pursue. In the idealized generalization, I think both powers are equal. Not so much in the real world.

Back to the salmon example, the males still have to fend off other males but small younger males can hide behind the female.



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21 Jan 2022, 5:06 am

communications could only be verbal or written, using explicitly direct language. no beating around the bush. no having to read between the lines, no more having to be a psychic mind-reader.



WantToHaveALife
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11 Feb 2022, 12:28 pm

as in life, control the way the world works, control reality?