Increasing popularity of friends-first approach

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cyberdad
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16 Mar 2023, 6:45 pm

bottleblank wrote:
but certainly for me there's a strong element of personality. A less attractive woman can be greatly more attractive if I get to know she's a good person, that she's fun, that she accepts me for being me, if she's curious, smart, etc.


I think what this illustrates is why gameification that exists in relationships in general. A person who doesn't feel attractive themselves might actually click with a prospective partner once they get to know each other. But here's the thing, People play games. They take things to the brink and/or conceal their true feelings.



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16 Mar 2023, 9:30 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Pepe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
I think the friends first approach is the best for young people on the spectrum. Particularly if you are aiming to date an NT.
A wholesome relationship is cultivated over time and it helps to have common interests and passions.

One minor caveat with "friends-first" is to take care with getting "friend-zoned" which easily happens.


Doesn't that simply mean there isn't a "spark" in the relationship and there was never going to be romance?


Yes, one needs something to light the spark....


BTW, Will you EVER get over her?


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16 Mar 2023, 9:32 pm

cyberdad wrote:
ProfessorJohn wrote:
Do any of these studies find an optimal level of time to be friends before dating? I kind of worry that if you are friends for too long, the other one might become so familiar with you in that role that they couldn't see you as a potential partner. I do know 2 couples, though, who were friends for a very long time before they started dating and both couples ended up marrying.


There's an important psychological factor in attraction which is that the woman usually knows fairly quickly whether you are dateable or not. The trick is having that insight to understand whether you actually passed that first test.

One thing the friendzone does provide an opportunity is for a man to persuade his female friend he is "worthy" of dating, but I think this should happen reasonably quickly and not after being friendzoned for several years. At a certain point you then become a male "handbag" or merely emotional support to prop up her self-esteem.


Or, dare I say it, a friend. 8)


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techstepgenr8tion
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16 Mar 2023, 9:35 pm

The trouble with voluntarily becoming a beta orbiter is you're telling her that you're perfectly okay with sticking around with high likelihood that whatever value you're providing her won't be reciprocated. That message in and of itself, in most cases, seems like it should void any respect she would have had for you.

That said - it's one thing if a girl is just really cool and you wanted to hang with her on that account (rare but I suppose it happens), completely different IMHO if you actually have other intentions.


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16 Mar 2023, 9:37 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Lost_dragon wrote:
Sometimes it's painful to reject someone. Yes, yes, I can feel the eye rolls, but no, seriously. I think it's one thing to reject a stranger at a bar, but to reject a close friend, one you wish you could return feelings for but simply don't... that can sting.


Then you have added fuel to the argument that women should be more upfront with their intentions. There is an Alanis Morrisette song (yes apologies in advance I am showing my age) where she sings about "you have already won me over" where a man is oblivious to the fact that she already fell in love with him. He continues trying when infact he doesn't have to.



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16 Mar 2023, 10:11 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
Pepe wrote:
40 years ago I went to a communications/socialisation course that advocated getting involved with your friend's interests even if you weren't that interested yourself.

I actually don't consider that to be good advice, at least not beyond a certain point. I think expressing a little basic curiosity about other people's interests is fine, but not trying to deceive the person into believing that you actually share the interest, if in fact you don't.


Interesting that you see it as "deception".
There are ALWAYS compromises or "give and take" in relationships.
Do you agree with EVERYTHING your partner says and does?
You make "sacrifices", and hopefully, your partner goes out of their way for you too.
Your focus is on THEIR enjoyment/emotional-wellbeing, and THAT in itself gives you pleasure.
The pursuit of a connection often entails "work".

"Going the extra mile", and "the whole nine yards", can/does also mean you like the person and are not simply trying to get into their pants.
It is simply a question of INTENT. 8)


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16 Mar 2023, 10:16 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
Pepe wrote:
40 years ago I went to a communications/socialisation course that advocated getting involved with your friend's interests even if you weren't that interested yourself.

I actually don't consider that to be good advice, at least not beyond a certain point. I think expressing a little basic curiosity about other people's interests is fine, but not trying to deceive the person into believing that you actually share the interest, if in fact you don't.
.


I don't think NTs take it that extreme, I think Pepe's advice is sort of 'compromise'.


BINGO!


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16 Mar 2023, 10:20 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
^^You deserve a Knighthood for this too, maybe you shall be Mona’s riding dragon.


I...can't...control...myself. <agony>
The joke MUST come forth:
...But hopefully, not her biatch. 8O :mrgreen:


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16 Mar 2023, 10:22 pm

cyberdad wrote:
bottleblank wrote:
but certainly for me there's a strong element of personality. A less attractive woman can be greatly more attractive if I get to know she's a good person, that she's fun, that she accepts me for being me, if she's curious, smart, etc.


I think what this illustrates is why gameification that exists in relationships in general. A person who doesn't feel attractive themselves might actually click with a prospective partner once they get to know each other. But here's the thing, People play games. They take things to the brink and/or conceal their true feelings.


And THAT is why it is better to be friends first. 8)


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Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
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Mona Pereth
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16 Mar 2023, 11:29 pm

Pepe wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
Pepe wrote:
40 years ago I went to a communications/socialisation course that advocated getting involved with your friend's interests even if you weren't that interested yourself.

I actually don't consider that to be good advice, at least not beyond a certain point. I think expressing a little basic curiosity about other people's interests is fine, but not trying to deceive the person into believing that you actually share the interest, if in fact you don't.


Interesting that you see it as "deception".
There are ALWAYS compromises or "give and take" in relationships.
Do you agree with EVERYTHING your partner says and does?
You make "sacrifices", and hopefully, your partner goes out of their way for you too.
Your focus is on THEIR enjoyment/emotional-wellbeing, and THAT in itself gives you pleasure.
The pursuit of a connection often entails "work".

"Going the extra mile", and "the whole nine yards", can/does also mean you like the person and are not simply trying to get into their pants.
It is simply a question of INTENT. 8)

Simply trying to please one's partner, or the person one is courting, is not deceptive. Whether it is "deceptive" depends on whether there is a significant difference between your claimed motive and your actual motive. Here I posted an example of what I do consider to be deception in this regard. As I wrote there:

Mona Pereth wrote:
Once, years ago, I was doing some political tabling in Manhattan. A guy offered to help me out, and did so for a few hours. I assumed that he did so because he believed in and cared about the cause. At the end, we exchanged phone numbers, presumably for the purpose of coordinating another round of tabling (or other relevant activity). But THEN it turned out that he had NO significant interest in the cause at all, but was interested only in asking me for a date. This I found very annoying.


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17 Mar 2023, 1:59 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
Pepe wrote:
40 years ago I went to a communications/socialisation course that advocated getting involved with your friend's interests even if you weren't that interested yourself.

I actually don't consider that to be good advice, at least not beyond a certain point. I think expressing a little basic curiosity about other people's interests is fine, but not trying to deceive the person into believing that you actually share the interest, if in fact you don't.


Interesting that you see it as "deception".
There are ALWAYS compromises or "give and take" in relationships.
Do you agree with EVERYTHING your partner says and does?
You make "sacrifices", and hopefully, your partner goes out of their way for you too.
Your focus is on THEIR enjoyment/emotional-wellbeing, and THAT in itself gives you pleasure.
The pursuit of a connection often entails "work".

"Going the extra mile", and "the whole nine yards", can/does also mean you like the person and are not simply trying to get into their pants.
It is simply a question of INTENT. 8)

Simply trying to please one's partner, or the person one is courting, is not deceptive. Whether it is "deceptive" depends on whether there is a significant difference between your claimed motive and your actual motive. Here I posted an example of what I do consider to be deception in this regard. As I wrote there:

Mona Pereth wrote:
Once, years ago, I was doing some political tabling in Manhattan. A guy offered to help me out, and did so for a few hours. I assumed that he did so because he believed in and cared about the cause. At the end, we exchanged phone numbers, presumably for the purpose of coordinating another round of tabling (or other relevant activity). But THEN it turned out that he had NO significant interest in the cause at all, but was interested only in asking me for a date. This I found very annoying.



In the modern days they call this behavior “simping”; it means when one (usually the man) pretends to say or do everything the other one wants or likes to hear (usually the woman) just as an attempt to make them fall for them.


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17 Mar 2023, 2:02 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
Pepe wrote:
40 years ago I went to a communications/socialisation course that advocated getting involved with your friend's interests even if you weren't that interested yourself.

I actually don't consider that to be good advice, at least not beyond a certain point. I think expressing a little basic curiosity about other people's interests is fine, but not trying to deceive the person into believing that you actually share the interest, if in fact you don't.


Interesting that you see it as "deception".
There are ALWAYS compromises or "give and take" in relationships.
Do you agree with EVERYTHING your partner says and does?
You make "sacrifices", and hopefully, your partner goes out of their way for you too.
Your focus is on THEIR enjoyment/emotional-wellbeing, and THAT in itself gives you pleasure.
The pursuit of a connection often entails "work".

"Going the extra mile", and "the whole nine yards", can/does also mean you like the person and are not simply trying to get into their pants.
It is simply a question of INTENT. 8)

Simply trying to please one's partner, or the person one is courting, is not deceptive. Whether it is "deceptive" depends on whether there is a significant difference between your claimed motive and your actual motive. Here I posted an example of what I do consider to be deception in this regard. As I wrote there:

Mona Pereth wrote:
Once, years ago, I was doing some political tabling in Manhattan. A guy offered to help me out, and did so for a few hours. I assumed that he did so because he believed in and cared about the cause. At the end, we exchanged phone numbers, presumably for the purpose of coordinating another round of tabling (or other relevant activity). But THEN it turned out that he had NO significant interest in the cause at all, but was interested only in asking me for a date. This I found very annoying.



In the modern days they call this behavior “simping”; it means when one (usually the man) pretends to say or do everything the other one wants or likes to hear (usually the woman) just as an attempt to make them fall for them.


I will keep this short.
I don't "simp". 8)


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"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
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cyberdad
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17 Mar 2023, 2:21 am

Pepe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Pepe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
I think the friends first approach is the best for young people on the spectrum. Particularly if you are aiming to date an NT.
A wholesome relationship is cultivated over time and it helps to have common interests and passions.

One minor caveat with "friends-first" is to take care with getting "friend-zoned" which easily happens.


Doesn't that simply mean there isn't a "spark" in the relationship and there was never going to be romance?


Yes, one needs something to light the spark....


BTW, Will you EVER get over her?


Yeah I have, but it's a cautionary tale



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17 Mar 2023, 8:12 am

For reference purposes, here is my comment on a different thread addressing more or less the same topic, also Mona was involved. This comment seemed to kill the thread BTW even though there is one additional comment which is a response to something somebody else said earlier:

https://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=410919&p=9219690#p9219690

At least Mona didn't seem to have anything to say in response.


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18 Mar 2023, 3:12 pm

I posted some belated replies in the other thread just now.


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18 Mar 2023, 7:36 pm

The line between simping and friendship is very blurry. It's like a nice warm bath. It's lovely to go in, but you need to know when to get out before you shrivel into an old lonely prune.,