Truths about socializing that no one tells you

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Whale_Tuune
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25 Aug 2020, 3:15 pm

I thought you were talking about the special ed system, that's why I was discussing it in terms of systems.


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Pepe
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25 Aug 2020, 4:53 pm

hurtloam wrote:
Oh I don't like gossip either, but she's summed them up well.

If someone gossips about someone else to me, I stop telling them anything about me or my family. Those who gossip to you gossip about you.

I don't hang around with gossips. You don't have to accept it. There are good people out there. Better people. Ditch the gossips OP. They are not real friends. You don't have to accept that in friendship.

But I like the attitude that you accept such pigs exist and it's better not to get riled up at them to the point where it disturbs your own peace.

I must say though. If someone does start talking badly or nastily about someone in front of me I shut them down by changing the subject and not engaging them in that subject or by saying directly that I don't want to talk about X person like that. People know not to gossip to me.


I wouldn't say what I do is gossip, but :mrgreen: I am fascinated by human psychology and like to ask questions to determine how people "tick".
If you don't ask questions, how do you "compare notes"?

So, hurtloam, don't you think whale tune has a remarkable vocabulary, especially for someone so young? :mrgreen:


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Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many on the left pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


I luv Joe Biden! Democracy first!


Pepe
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25 Aug 2020, 4:56 pm

Joe90 wrote:
I'm not that pragmatic, I wouldn't not be friends with someone just because they gossipped, and gossip isn't always a bad thing.

I have a good friend at work and we often gossip about others, but not in a bad way. Gossip is part of life. Even my own family gossips about each other, and we're all very close and loving to each other. We just do it without realising.


Don't you find it unusual how hutloam has such a problem with harmless gossip? :mrgreen:


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many on the left pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


I luv Joe Biden! Democracy first!


Pepe
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25 Aug 2020, 5:09 pm

hobojungle wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
Those who gossip to you gossip about you.


This I agree with 100%.

I also agree that gossip is one of those things that exist whether I like it or not. I also think it’s perfectly understandable to feel insecure. I don’t think I’m better than anybody else because gossip isn’t for me. I just express my insecurities differently. It’s okay to disagree. I’m no expert on the matter.


Oh, yes, gossip is ubiquitous, particularly in the neurotypical circles.
Look at cyberdad gossiping about his mother. I think NTs find it cathartic. You could see how cyberdad perked up despite suggesting the opposite. Body language says it all. "Don't listen to the words, look at the actions."
We aspies, on the other hand, don't often engage in such frivolous pursuits.

Excuse me dear, I need to talk about hutloam's dress sense to Joe90. :mrgreen:


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many on the left pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


I luv Joe Biden! Democracy first!


blooiejagwa
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25 Aug 2020, 6:05 pm

I gossip a lot but asPepe Said to 'compare notes' or share things by example which cannot do another way.
Because intricacies (details) are the real place where we can fall short n mess up (as humans not just ASD type) and patterns from accumulated stories/anecdotes over time help paint a clear picture.

Which is useful in knowing what to do in future and then ppl think you are being 'wise' but really it's from talking to and consulting different ppl and your own experiences.. Melt it together to form a sort of theory .. And apply it.

Also knowing or sharing things like that is how you gain practical knowledge of socializing as there are many unpredictable scenarios .. But from knowing and learning all those stories.. You get a clear sense of the most proper and effective approach AS WELL AS being prepared for eventualities (things can change drastically in a flash) which enable u to not be too scared to begin engaging (as otherwise one might give up before trying)


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Jakki
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25 Aug 2020, 7:00 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
blooiejagwa wrote:
i think all i ever do on WP is gossip to be honest :oops: :skull: 8O


But you're never mean-spirited and with some of the people and stresses in your life I can't imagine not needing to share.

Gossip is probably the very first sort of conversation archaic hominids ever had. It's as 'normal' as using physical affection to form and reinforce social bonds. :nerdy:


Sighes.....? Thinks some hominids in society still seen somewhat archaic , in moderntime. But their gossip is not always in a good way . Inspite of it being normal ?


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blooiejagwa
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25 Aug 2020, 7:10 pm

There is usually a fine line between gossiping and backbiting (sometimes a very bold obvious line) and gossiping makes it seem easier to slip into backbiting. Telling the truth but in a way that you would never want the person u talk about to hear is what is called backbiting in my religion and considered wrong. However I KNOW much of what I say I wouldn't want to say in front of that person.


Gossip
also makes it easy for those given to malice, to slander (lie)... and have it be accepted.

It is surely considered a sin?


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blooiejagwa
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25 Aug 2020, 7:15 pm

Whale_Tuune wrote:
I thought you were talking about the special ed system, that's why I was discussing it in terms of systems.


Yea i only later realized my error in sliding backwards in the subject.. in my mind ..without actually writing that ..


it brought up interesting points. Seems many people here have direct personal expérience with Special Ed system , or work in it....


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cyberdad
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25 Aug 2020, 7:15 pm

blooiejagwa wrote:
Gossip
also makes it easy for those given to malice, to slander (lie)... and have it be accepted.

It is surely considered a sin?


blooiejagwa wrote:
I gossip a lot


You may have answered your own question you posed



blooiejagwa
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25 Aug 2020, 7:17 pm

Edna3362 wrote:
An observation that seems to be unaccounted for; it's about psyching people out -- good and bad.

My own social truth and motto is this;
Quote:
All forms of social interactions are a form of manipulation.

That includes unseen and passive influences without ever seeing and knowing the recipients, intended and unintended -- all it matters is human audience perception and their receptivity.

Body language? Empathy? They're as basic as literacy and writing in terms of learning social skills.
Cultural knowledge and attitude? Social dynamics and contexts?
Heck, even statuses between parties, respective habits and value systems.

They're all just a means to an end, just like how words themselves are tools to the readers and writters.
At least that's how I see it. The rest are just bonus to me to honor and appreciate.


The NTs around me gave me a lot of chances to observe and overhear more social data than I would've like sometimes.
Some of it happened to be "How to adapt and blend outside your home territory". It would've been perfect if I were socially driven.


My only issue is myself and myself alone. I can have all the social chances and exposures, and still can mean nothing.
Because there is no "How to manage your emotions", "How to regulate your senses", "How to socially wield your body and voice", "How to prevent getting symptomatic ADD", "How to avoid burnout", "How to fix your hormones from getting symptomatic BPD", etc.
There is no manual for social filters. There is no tutorials on overwhelm.

Even NTs themselves neglects their respective upbringings and self-care. They just get by with instincts, less than a quarter of observation and a body that self regulates.

Any autistic who tries to adapt knows what I mean by this. There is so much more than just the social clumsiness.
It's like trying to jump without a harness, and then blame others for it. Only a very few can pull that off without getting hurt.

:o

1. Is true depending in the occassion.
Especially for certain positions where one had to be a bit intimidating and a bit more approachable than the other.
How to be approachable, yet guarded enough not to mess with you.
Then there's a matter of allegiance.

2. Yes. They're a decent source of info if you get lost or trying to find something. It's better than nothing.
Still, it requires discernment. The longer the gossip chain, the more distorted the tale from the original.

3. Ah, yes. First impressions.
It can still be broken though if you know what you're doing and if there are those around you who can back it up to the contrary.

4. It depends.
It's like asking yourself if you should waste your energy over some stranger's flight, joy or slight that had nothing to do with you.
It's also like asking yourself if you want to give away your power to someone you don't even want in your life.

5. A matured person knew that one can never please everyone and appease everything. :lol:
To say 'don't let others judge you' is more of a matter of emotional regulation to make it, or a psych play to play tug or war in your head with -- see #4.


How I wish I can wield words well enough, to put everything I've learned and sensed into words anyone can read.

Overall, the observations' good. Just keep it up. :lol: There are more long way still.


The part in Spoiler is very insightful to me personally


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Jiheisho
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26 Aug 2020, 7:18 pm

I am wondering if all my best friends were undiagnosed autistics...



Pepe
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26 Aug 2020, 8:38 pm

blooiejagwa wrote:
I gossip a lot but asPepe Said to 'compare notes' or share things by example which cannot do another way.
Because intricacies (details) are the real place where we can fall short n mess up (as humans not just ASD type) and patterns from accumulated stories/anecdotes over time help paint a clear picture.


Yup.


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many on the left pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


I luv Joe Biden! Democracy first!


Pepe
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26 Aug 2020, 8:47 pm

blooiejagwa wrote:
There is usually a fine line between gossiping and backbiting (sometimes a very bold obvious line) and gossiping makes it seem easier to slip into backbiting. Telling the truth but in a way that you would never want the person u talk about to hear is what is called backbiting in my religion and considered wrong. However I KNOW much of what I say I wouldn't want to say in front of that person.


Gossip
also makes it easy for those given to malice, to slander (lie)... and have it be accepted.

It is surely considered a sin?


The main problem, imo, is the stupidity of the people receiving the "gossip" and accepting it unconditionally.
If people developed in-depth critical thinking skills, there would be a lot less harm going around.

Often, people simply don't fact-check.
They don't listen to the other person's view/explanation.
They simply accept any nonsense which is proffered.

Then there is the problem of groups/gangs engaging in groupthink and turning into a metaphorical L****mob.

Hoomans. :roll: :mrgreen:


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many on the left pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


I luv Joe Biden! Democracy first!


Pepe
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26 Aug 2020, 8:49 pm

Jakki wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
blooiejagwa wrote:
i think all i ever do on WP is gossip to be honest :oops: :skull: 8O


But you're never mean-spirited and with some of the people and stresses in your life I can't imagine not needing to share.

Gossip is probably the very first sort of conversation archaic hominids ever had. It's as 'normal' as using physical affection to form and reinforce social bonds. :nerdy:


Sighes.....? Thinks some hominids in society still seen somewhat archaic , in moderntime. But their gossip is not always in a good way . Inspite of it being normal ?


There is a difference between "Gossip" and "Fact-finding".
Most of it has to do with *attitude*. ;)


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many on the left pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


I luv Joe Biden! Democracy first!


Pepe
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26 Aug 2020, 8:50 pm

cyberdad wrote:
blooiejagwa wrote:
Gossip
also makes it easy for those given to malice, to slander (lie)... and have it be accepted.

It is surely considered a sin?


blooiejagwa wrote:
I gossip a lot


You may have answered your own question you posed


Obviously you don't know blooiejagwa well.
She hasn't a mean bone in her body. ;)


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many on the left pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


I luv Joe Biden! Democracy first!


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10 Mar 2021, 7:54 pm

Whale_Tuune wrote:
I have a few things I've realized over the years about social skills, that people tend not to tell you when speaking didactically.

1.) Being a good person has less to do with being well-liked than one would think. Charisma, conversational skills, and self-confidence go much further. Make no mistake, being selfish, petty, or cruel will only serve to make you a lot of enemies and has no benefit in and of itself. Don't sacrifice your moral compass because it "doesn't matter". But bear in mind that being half-decent some of the time coupled with good social skills and high charisma goes way, way further than keeping to a solid moral code but being socially awkward. Most people will deny that they like charismatic but slightly sh***y people better than kind, socially awkward people. Most people, I think, are in denial.

2.) Gossip isn't necessarily malicious. It hurts like Hell to know that others are talking s**t about you. The fact of the matter is that even though it's sh***y behavior, it's also near ubiquitous behavior. I don't approve of it, but people mocking something stupid you did the other day doesn't necessarily automatically mean that they hate you; it means that people like to gossip and they likely don't think that what they're saying will get back to you. It's thoughtless, petty behavior, but bear in mind that it's frequently behavior borne out of indifference and carelessness rather than intentional malice.

3.) Social inertia is a thing. First impressions matter because they frame the way we see people later on. Someone who has a reputation for being confident and charismatic can get away with much more outrageous behavior, and it will be seen as self-aware humor rather than a sign that they're weird. For example (this is graphic, so steer clear if you get grossed out easily) once in my Spanish class, a gregarious and outgoing girl gave a graphic recollection of getting her fingernail dislocated and having to have it re-embedded in her finger. Then she offered to show us pictures. This was taken as a hilarious joke. If I had done something like that, the response would have been different.

4.) Most people like to think that if they don't actively hate anyone else, that's fine. They're not being harmful. All I can say is that there's a reason why "the opposite of love is indifference" is an aphorism.

5.) No one is really good at understanding others. There is no "universal human code of behavior". Social boundaries and practices vary from person to person and group to group. Because of that, rote training in social skills can only go so far. Most people can generally tap into the boundaries and atmosphere of the group or situation they're in. We typically cannot, and very little "book reading" about socializing can necessarily solve that. Humans are also prone to misunderstandings. Don't let others judge you and take their word about you over yours, period.


Good tips. Regarding #2, I've found that making friends with the gossips actually makes life so much easier. They tell me everything that's going on in my workplace. They're also pretty easy to get along with - usually, all they want is someone who will listen to them. And if they like you, they'll advocate for you when they're gossiping with someone else.