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Summer_Twilight
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05 Mar 2021, 10:40 am

Hi:
I wanted to talk about organizations, clubs, and even whole groups of people who reject you. As cruel as it is and then them being nasty, one can argue that they really were not a good fit for you and vice versa. Maybe the environment is toxic because both parties bring out the worst in each other.



Fnord
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05 Mar 2021, 11:00 am

Every club seems to have been founded by a core group that made all of the policy decisions for the entire group.  The core members' mutual reinforcement eventually gave them the attitude that they could do no wrong.  Then along comes an aspie who reads the rules, determines how those rules are applied, and then points out to the members of the core group where the rules and their applications conflict with established legal standards.

Suddenly, the aspie is persona non grata and being encouraged to resign from the club.

This has been the case so many times that I no longer join formal clubs.


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Summer_Twilight
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05 Mar 2021, 2:58 pm

It's not just clubs that do this, it's organized religion as well. Especially when the leadership has an agenda of their own and wants everyone to fit this perfect mold.

However, I am talking about people at clubs who seem to stigmatize, demonize and isolate you from being friends with other members within the groups, clubs, churches, etc. I am saying that people follow the leader over some silly reasons are not for you in the first place.



Mona Pereth
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07 Mar 2021, 12:51 pm

Summer_Twilight wrote:
However, I am talking about people at clubs who seem to stigmatize, demonize and isolate you from being friends with other members within the groups, clubs, churches, etc.

That's nasty and cultish and, fortunately, not something all groups do.

On the other hand, all groups do have their own sets of shared values and traditions. An organized group cannot function without some shared set of values and traditions, either explicit or unspoken. So, naturally, anyone who disagrees with these values and traditions -- in any but a small, incremental way, perhaps -- cannot be welcome.


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Summer_Twilight
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08 Mar 2021, 11:18 am

Mona, I would have never thought of it that way. I have been in a few churches who their traditions and ways of doing things. There were a couple of times where the people of this group felt that I did not fit in socially because I made a few mistakes.

Years ago, while attending singles Sunday school, I attempted to join one of their small groups. One of the rules of being a part of the small group was keeping a safe place to share personal information that was otherwise confidential. Though they did not explain the rules to me, I got in trouble for making a prayer request about one of the members during the Sunday school sessions.

Instead of contacting me immediately afterwards, they waited to the next meeting and were very sneaky about it. Basically, this one member made it sound like she was going to start giving me rides as she moved closer. When I called to confirm, she said that the small group leader wanted to talk to me. When she picked me up, she did not bother to talk to me one-on-one. Instead, she waited for the leader to come.

Basically, he explained that I betrayed her trust and she was my "Best friend," which she was not. He said acknowledged I was truly sorry and did not know the rules, but he still was going to hold me accountable. What? Though they did not kick me out, there were subtle hints they did not want me there.


Say, when my aunt did not me go over there anymore, they never reached out and asked what was going on or anything. That member of the small group gave me the cold shoulder after that.



Fnord
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08 Mar 2021, 11:33 am

Did they guilt-tripped you into leaving the church because you did not already know the unwritten social rules of their echo-chamber?  Churches seem to have a way of isolating and dismissing those of us who do not perfectly fit in with the rest, especially when they say we "should have known better" when accidentally committing a social error, and without ever accepting responsibility for providing and promoting an exclusionary environment for like-minded people.

Accidental errors should be corrected, not punished.


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Summer_Twilight
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08 Mar 2021, 12:19 pm

No, but the people in that Sunday school just started treating me differently after I made one mistake. The leader of that care group was one of the leaders of the Sunday school and other events as well, therefore he was pretty popular. Now that I think about it, he was pretty full of himself.

Yes, I would say he guilt tripped out of attending his small group. He apologized for not being upfront with me on the rules and knew I would not make that mistake again but would hold me "Accountable," and if I did it again, he would have to speak with the director of the small groups.

While he ran me out of there, my aunt, who I lived with at the time, was getting fed up with that singles ministry because she thought they were cliquey, flakey, and did not seem like they wanted to be my friend. However, they welcomed me to their organized activities and other parties



Gentleman Argentum
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10 Mar 2021, 6:16 pm

Summer_Twilight wrote:
Hi:
I wanted to talk about organizations, clubs, and even whole groups of people who reject you. As cruel as it is and then them being nasty, one can argue that they really were not a good fit for you and vice versa. Maybe the environment is toxic because both parties bring out the worst in each other.


I get rejected by individuals, not whole groups. Groups seldom tend to be monolithic, you may have some cliques in there but they do not control every little thing. I just learned to have a tough skin and not expect everyone to like me. That is probably a good base assumption, just don't expect to be liked right away, acceptance takes time.

People are weird, the ASD spectrum is just the tip o' the iceberg, even NT's can be weird.


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Mona Pereth
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10 Mar 2021, 6:34 pm

Fnord wrote:
Accidental errors should be corrected, not punished.

Agreed.

Alas, not enough people have learned the art of being assertive without being aggressive. "Correcting" without "punishing" requires effort that too many people and groups are just not willing to make.


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madbutnotmad
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10 Mar 2021, 6:50 pm

"I would never join a club that would have me as a member!" Groucho Marx...

I would say that a great deal of organisations, be they religious, political, social
can be a lot about what i refer to as the "power of popularity!"

popularity can be exploited for various reasons

power
money
sex
abuse

It is how the human race works
from cave men to modern day super men

a great deal of them are exploiting the power that popularity brings them
and with popularity brings greater opportunity
which potentially can make you even more popular

that is why as a minority group
we don't do so well

we can't or perhaps choice not to exploit the power of popularity
(choose not to because it often takes a slimy scum bag in order to!)...

but don't feel bad if you do
I mean, the Dalai Lama exploits the power of popularity to further his causes
hangs out with celebrities
appears on celebrity cooking shows...

all for the power the popularity it brings him and his cause...
To me that may be enough for me to think that he isn't the Buddha incarnate...

but nevermind
that's my opinion
for what its worth



Summer_Twilight
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11 Mar 2021, 10:36 am

Gentleman Argentum wrote:
Summer_Twilight wrote:
Hi:
I wanted to talk about organizations, clubs, and even whole groups of people who reject you. As cruel as it is and then them being nasty, one can argue that they really were not a good fit for you and vice versa. Maybe the environment is toxic because both parties bring out the worst in each other.


I get rejected by individuals, not whole groups. Groups seldom tend to be monolithic, you may have some cliques in there but they do not control every little thing. I just learned to have a tough skin and not expect everyone to like me. That is probably a good base assumption, just don't expect to be liked right away, acceptance takes time.

People are weird, the ASD spectrum is just the tip o' the iceberg, even NT's can be weird.



You have a good a good point about people and groups not liking you right away. I tend to gravitate towards people too quickly and assume, "Hey they look like a good candidate for a friend." I did exactly that with that people in that small group. I seemed to get along with them and decided to join their group.



TenMinutes
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11 Mar 2021, 10:59 am

Gentleman Argentum wrote:
I get rejected by individuals, not whole groups.


I'm going to have to make a post about exclusion. What happens when a small group of people, not an organization or a club, just a group of people, fail to invite an obvious potential invitee. I, unfortunately, have some expertise.



Gentleman Argentum
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11 Mar 2021, 12:12 pm

Summer_Twilight wrote:
Gentleman Argentum wrote:
Summer_Twilight wrote:
Hi:
I wanted to talk about organizations, clubs, and even whole groups of people who reject you. As cruel as it is and then them being nasty, one can argue that they really were not a good fit for you and vice versa. Maybe the environment is toxic because both parties bring out the worst in each other.


I get rejected by individuals, not whole groups. Groups seldom tend to be monolithic, you may have some cliques in there but they do not control every little thing. I just learned to have a tough skin and not expect everyone to like me. That is probably a good base assumption, just don't expect to be liked right away, acceptance takes time.

People are weird, the ASD spectrum is just the tip o' the iceberg, even NT's can be weird.



You have a good a good point about people and groups not liking you right away. I tend to gravitate towards people too quickly and assume, "Hey they look like a good candidate for a friend." I did exactly that with that people in that small group. I seemed to get along with them and decided to join their group.


How did things work out with their group?


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Gentleman Argentum
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11 Mar 2021, 12:17 pm

TenMinutes wrote:
Gentleman Argentum wrote:
I get rejected by individuals, not whole groups.


I'm going to have to make a post about exclusion. What happens when a small group of people, not an organization or a club, just a group of people, fail to invite an obvious potential invitee. I, unfortunately, have some expertise.


I just don't hang around groups long enough to find out. I may change when this pandemic's over. Join a fitness group, etc.


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Summer_Twilight
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12 Mar 2021, 9:07 am

Gentleman Argentum wrote:
Summer_Twilight wrote:
Gentleman Argentum wrote:
Summer_Twilight wrote:
Hi:
I wanted to talk about organizations, clubs, and even whole groups of people who reject you. As cruel as it is and then them being nasty, one can argue that they really were not a good fit for you and vice versa. Maybe the environment is toxic because both parties bring out the worst in each other.


I get rejected by individuals, not whole groups. Groups seldom tend to be monolithic, you may have some cliques in there but they do not control every little thing. I just learned to have a tough skin and not expect everyone to like me. That is probably a good base assumption, just don't expect to be liked right away, acceptance takes time.

People are weird, the ASD spectrum is just the tip o' the iceberg, even NT's can be weird.



You have a good a good point about people and groups not liking you right away. I tend to gravitate towards people too quickly and assume, "Hey they look like a good candidate for a friend." I did exactly that with that people in that small group. I seemed to get along with them and decided to join their group.


How did things work out with their group?



See my post above...

My aunt, who I lived with at the time, was at the end of her rope with these people because they were not reliable and did not seem like they were interested in me. She even tried to encourage them to make me feel welcome which did not work.

On top of that, the woman who gave me a ride to her apartment, tried to manipulate me by asking me to call my aunt to give me a ride home. So, when I had those two talk on the phone, the woman was not very nice to my aunt. So my aunt would not let me get together with that group anymore.

Things grew toxic with the singles sunday school ministry after that and my peers started treating me differently. That woman also turned out to be fake.



Gentleman Argentum
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12 Mar 2021, 11:47 am

Summer_Twilight wrote:
Gentleman Argentum wrote:
Summer_Twilight wrote:
Gentleman Argentum wrote:
Summer_Twilight wrote:
Hi:
I wanted to talk about organizations, clubs, and even whole groups of people who reject you. As cruel as it is and then them being nasty, one can argue that they really were not a good fit for you and vice versa. Maybe the environment is toxic because both parties bring out the worst in each other.


I get rejected by individuals, not whole groups. Groups seldom tend to be monolithic, you may have some cliques in there but they do not control every little thing. I just learned to have a tough skin and not expect everyone to like me. That is probably a good base assumption, just don't expect to be liked right away, acceptance takes time.

People are weird, the ASD spectrum is just the tip o' the iceberg, even NT's can be weird.



You have a good a good point about people and groups not liking you right away. I tend to gravitate towards people too quickly and assume, "Hey they look like a good candidate for a friend." I did exactly that with that people in that small group. I seemed to get along with them and decided to join their group.


How did things work out with their group?



See my post above...

My aunt, who I lived with at the time, was at the end of her rope with these people because they were not reliable and did not seem like they were interested in me. She even tried to encourage them to make me feel welcome which did not work.

On top of that, the woman who gave me a ride to her apartment, tried to manipulate me by asking me to call my aunt to give me a ride home. So, when I had those two talk on the phone, the woman was not very nice to my aunt. So my aunt would not let me get together with that group anymore.

Things grew toxic with the singles sunday school ministry after that and my peers started treating me differently. That woman also turned out to be fake.


I just assume everyone's fake and interested only in their own ends, whether they talk about God or not. So far this has been a reliable barometer and helps me navigate the world of people.

Always be thinking about your end, like how will you get a ride back if someone drives you somewhere? Have them agree ahead of time to give you a ride back, at least.


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