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Fnord
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05 Dec 2015, 12:45 pm

pro100pk2 wrote:
Mark198423 wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Is "Lot of women are b*****s" okay and "most men are jerks or "most men are pigs?"
Surely that would be generalizing?
Not all men are pigs.
True. Most of us are descended from Primates.


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AdrianR
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02 Jun 2016, 12:22 pm

So, this is just another forum where nobody is allowed to tell what they truly feel and what they've truly experienced at the hands of the other gender, because it is too harsh for someone else to hear? Even if it is the truth? Wonderful.



Last edited by AdrianR on 02 Jun 2016, 1:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Fnord
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02 Jun 2016, 12:39 pm

AdrianR wrote:
So, this is just another forum where nobody is allowed to tell what they truly feel and what they've truly experienced at the hands of the other gender, because it is too harsh for someone else to hear? Even if it is the truth? Wonderful...
People can post what they truly feel, as long as it's those feelings that are being addressed, and not simply being used as an excuse to attack a person or group of people.

For example, "I feel anger and frustration whenever a girl breaks up with me" is acceptable, because it addresses the feelings involved in a break-up; while "I hate those f*****g stuck-up b*****s who think they're too d****d good to date a nice guy like me" is inappropriate, because it expresses the anger and frustration in a misogynist attack directed against women.


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AdrianR
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02 Jun 2016, 1:24 pm

I'm sorry, but misandry is the order of the day nowadays. And, clearly, the statement made about stuck-up b...s and the rest is a case of if the shoe fits wear it. If so many of those individuals of that particular gender identify so easily with such a statement, I'd say it's no more than a guilty conscience (which is the torment of a living soul).

There are two reasons why someone would sit with a guilty conscience after such a statement is made:

1. They were wrongly accused of it at a previous time in their lives by some kind of abuser. In which case, the person should be freed immediately from such a "prison", as obviously they are not guilty of the "crime" they are being accused of, or:

2. They are that which they are being accused of.

Case 1 happens, but thankfully not a lot. People are unfairly accused of something, often in childhood, and then someone calls them that in later life, and voila, it suddenly seems to be proven true.

Case 2 happens a lot. And in this case, I'm sorry, but if the shoe fits...



AdrianR
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02 Jun 2016, 1:34 pm

Fnord wrote:
"I hate those f*****g stuck-up b*****s who think they're too d****d good to date a nice guy like me" is inappropriate, because it expresses the anger and frustration in a misogynist attack directed against women.


I'm sorry but I see no misogyny in that statement at all. In the quoted sentence, not once does the word "women", or the phrase "all women" appear. It is clearly directed at a very specific group of individuals who are not even mentioned by name, but described as female dogs.

I would conclude this man who makes this statement most likely has met a kind, sweet woman afterwards and is now either happily married, or at least dating a nice lady.

He is no misogynist.



AdrianR
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02 Jun 2016, 1:37 pm

Fnord wrote:
"I feel anger and frustration whenever a girl breaks up with me"


This is the guy with the problem. He is the ticking time-bomb waiting to blow up. Who knows how many more girls before he snaps? I would be very afraid of this guy.



Fnord
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02 Jun 2016, 2:45 pm

AdrianR wrote:
Fnord wrote:
"I feel anger and frustration whenever a girl breaks up with me"
This is the guy with the problem. He is the ticking time-bomb waiting to blow up. Who knows how many more girls before he snaps? I would be very afraid of this guy.
This is also a guy who understands his feelings and wants to discuss them and the situation that triggers them, rather than take his feelings out one any and every woman he meets.


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Fnord
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02 Jun 2016, 2:51 pm

AdrianR wrote:
Fnord wrote:
"I hate those f*****g stuck-up b*****s who think they're too d****d good to date a nice guy like me" is inappropriate, because it expresses the anger and frustration in a misogynist attack directed against women.
I'm sorry but I see no misogyny in that statement at all. In the quoted sentence, not once does the word "women", or the phrase "all women" appear. It is clearly directed at a very specific group of individuals who are not even mentioned by name, but described as female dogs. I would conclude this man who makes this statement most likely has met a kind, sweet woman afterwards and is now either happily married, or at least dating a nice lady. He is no misogynist.
Misogyny is the hatred or dislike of women or girls. Misogyny can be manifested in numerous ways, including sexual discrimination, hostility, male supremacist ideas, belittling of women, violence against women, and sexual objectification of women.

Misogyny does not have to be directed at all women when the gender of the hated group is mentioned. The misogynist statement I cited implies that any woman who rejects that man for a date is a "f*****g stuck-up b****h". Obviously, a man who expresses or implies such a sentiment holds repressed hatred for women, and rejection is only an excuse to express his hatred openly.


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AdrianR
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02 Jun 2016, 2:58 pm

Believe it or not, the first guy is the expressive guy. He is the one actually discussing, despite the crude manner of delivery. The second guy sounds like the passive aggressive type, bottling things up and never discussing them. Just my opinion. People who are truly expressing and venting their anger rarely say "I am angry", they cuss, shout, etc. That's expression, venting and diffusing of anger. I would worry about a guy who just says "I'm feeling angry." Really? He's angry? I can't even tell. The second one is the one who years later snaps for the smallest thing and ALL that anger, years and years worth, comes flooding out. Because out it will out, no matter how you try to stop it. The straw that broke the camel's back type of thing.



AdrianR
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02 Jun 2016, 3:15 pm

Fnord wrote:
The misogynist statement I cited implies that any woman who rejects that man for a date is a "f*****g stuck-up b****h".


The quoted statement is not saying he is a misogynist, you are. It doesn't work in reverse. You're original statement didn't say that.

In this post: a (any) woman who rejects him is a f... stuck up b... - yes, a misogynist, definitely.
In the previous post: a f... stuck up b... rejected him - why is this misogynistic? Because the f... stuck up b... happens to be a woman? Does he hate women? Maybe. Just not so clear that way around. Maybe he just hates the f... stuck up b... Maybe he doesn't even view her/them as the rest of the women. We'll never know. Depends what he means by b...

If you meant that that statement meant what you posted here, then, yes, that is misogynistic.

This can become very complicated, with other things too - racism, sexism, whatever.



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02 Jun 2016, 7:04 pm

As an employer, I've had to investigate several instances of sexual harassment. Because of this, I am well acquainted with the characteristics of misogyny. Clearly, when a person feels anger for being rejected, that's only natural. But to direct that anger toward the gender of the rejecting person, now that's misogyny (for women) or misandry (for men).

I don't know what the harassment laws are like in your country - or even if they have laws against such things. Here in the U.S., a man can be sacked and sued for just saying the word "b***h" in the presence of a woman (when he is not talking about breeding dogs, of course). It happens. In the unlikely event that such men are not sacked, they are often directed to undertake anger management counseling as a condition of their continued employment.


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AdrianR
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03 Jun 2016, 2:13 am

Fnord wrote:
I don't know what the harassment laws are like in your country - or even if they have laws against such things.


Hahaha. Yes we do, since we have a constitution, just like any other normal country I would imagine.

Fnord wrote:
Here in the U.S., a man can be sacked and sued for just saying the word "b***h" in the presence of a woman (when he is not talking about breeding dogs, of course). It happens. In the unlikely event that such men are not sacked, they are often directed to undertake anger management counseling as a condition of their continued employment.


Well that just highlights the sorry state of affairs doesn't it. And they wonder why misogyny is so rampant.

You'll have to excuse my ambivalence about the whole "women's rights" thing sir. I am in no way discrediting anything you have mentioned, as I'm sure these instances have happened many times.

It's just after being called everything in the book from a creep to a psychopath, a misogynist, a loser, a nice guy with evil intentions simply for saying "I really like you", "I'd like to get to know you better", or "Would you like to go on a date with me?" you can imagine how I feel.

So, nowadays I just stay out of their way completely. It really just is better that way. I don't talk to any women, I ask to be served by male waiters in a restaurant, and I go to shops with men at the checkout. The law forbid, I don't want any trouble.



B19
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03 Jun 2016, 2:54 am

Goodness me, what is going on in this advisory Terms of Service thread? TOS threads are not the place for heated debate and member disagreements.

AdrianS: if you have a beef with the terms of service on WP you have these choices:

-find another group forum that suits you better
-stay and accept that this is a privately owned site and the owner has an absolute right to set the boundaries, and insist that those boundaries be respected by members.
-send Alex a PM
-open a thread in the WP forum
-you can post rants in a stickied thread at the top of The Haven - though misogyny cannot be promoted there either; still, you can let off steam there and people do.

If you don't agree with the TOS and the rules, then maybe this isn't the planet for you. If you want to continue to promote your personal views attacking the operating rules of WP, do it somewhere else - though not in any TOS or Advisory thread please.

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AdrianR
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03 Jun 2016, 4:01 am

B19 wrote:
Goodness me, what is going on in this advisory Terms of Service thread? TOS threads are not the place for heated debate and member disagreements.

AdrianS: if you have a beef with the terms of service on WP you have these choices:

-find another group forum that suits you better
-stay and accept that this is a privately owned site and the owner has an absolute right to set the boundaries, and insist that those boundaries be respected by members.
-send Alex a PM
-open a thread in the WP forum
-you can post rants in a stickied thread at the top of The Haven - though misogyny cannot be promoted there either; still, you can let off steam there and people do.

If you don't agree with the TOS and the rules, then maybe this isn't the planet for you. If you want to continue to promote your personal views attacking the operating rules of WP, do it somewhere else - though not in any TOS or Advisory thread please.

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By all means sir, you do what you need to do. Ban me, delete me (oh yeah and it's AdrianR by the way, not AdrianS ;), just so you know when you are doing it and can't figure out why AdrianS is not yielding results ;)).

You do what's necessary. I mean, like seriously, what I gotta do to get kicked out around here?



B19
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03 Jun 2016, 4:09 am

Leave it there and let it rest then. If you want to request a voluntary ban, we can close your account as you wish. (And by the way, I am not a 'sir' !)



AdrianR
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03 Jun 2016, 5:45 am

B19 wrote:
Leave it there and let it rest then. If you want to request a voluntary ban, we can close your account as you wish. (And by the way, I am not a 'sir' !)


Yes please!