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Deinonychus
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09 Feb 2012, 4:58 pm

I have a schizoid diagnosis AND an asperger diagnosis and am completely confused because the one is supposed to exclude the other. So I have convinced myself that I am schizoid AND when I read about schizoid personality everything applies to me BUT when it comes to the differential diagnosis between the two (which is supposed to be difficult) what stands there is that the difference is that schizoids have no stereotypies (like flapping their fingers or other objects etc in front of their eyes, which I have done every day of my entire life) and no special (dysfunctional) interests (mine are extreme in the extreme), so I hereby give up trying to make any sense of these diagnoses and the criteria they are based on. It doesn't make any sense at all.



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09 Feb 2012, 6:09 pm

Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it. SPD is basically going away in DSM-5, mainly because they realized that if you put everyone with Aspie wiring + ADD impulsivity in the "ASD level 1" category, and everyone with minor reality-perception problems or paranoia into the "schizotypal" category, there really isn't anybody left to describe as "schizoid".

Officially, SPD doesn't include things like perseverative special interests or stereotyped movements... but apparently, just about everyone already classified as "SPD" has them anyway (even if they aren't quite as severe as you'd normally find in most Aspies)... or would, if they didn't have comorbid depression.

Put another way, SPD's definition came first, but as the definition of "ASD" (specifically, Asperger Syndrome) extended "rightward" towards less-disabled individuals with Aspie wiring & comorbid ADHD-PI, SPD started to look more and more vestigial & pointless as a discrete diagnosis. In theory, somebody whose symptoms genuinely began as an adult would still fit the SPD definition... now try to FIND an actual person who fits it.


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Deinonychus
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09 Feb 2012, 6:44 pm

dr01dguy wrote:
Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it. SPD is basically going away in DSM-5, mainly because they realized that if you put everyone with Aspie wiring + ADD impulsivity in the "ASD level 1" category, and everyone with minor reality-perception problems or paranoia into the "schizotypal" category, there really isn't anybody left to describe as "schizoid".

Officially, SPD doesn't include things like perseverative special interests or stereotyped movements... but apparently, just about everyone already classified as "SPD" has them anyway (even if they aren't quite as severe as you'd normally find in most Aspies)... or would, if they didn't have comorbid depression.

Put another way, SPD's definition came first, but as the definition of "ASD" (specifically, Asperger Syndrome) extended "rightward" towards less-disabled individuals with Aspie wiring & comorbid ADHD-PI, SPD started to look more and more vestigial & pointless as a discrete diagnosis. In theory, somebody whose symptoms genuinely began as an adult would still fit the SPD definition... now try to FIND an actual person who fits it.


Thanks, but I'm not sure I understand 8O .

Anyway, my problem with the SPD diagnosis is (among other things) that it doesn't square with a lifetime of (highly enjoyable and absolutely necessary) visual stimming and an (equally enjoyable and necessary) lifetime of really cool focus on my special interest., so it is interesting to learn that people classified as SPD don't lack these traits :) . When I read about SPD it just seems so gray and lifeless and dead and I don't feel like that at all :( .

I thought that SPD was on the schizophrenia spectrum and aspergers was on the autism spectrum 8O .



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09 Feb 2012, 9:01 pm

SPD is on the schizophrenia spectrum as a historical accident. Basically, when they wrote the first DSM, they started with disorganized paranoid schizophrenia and worked backwards (attempting to define just about everything else in terms of it). SPD was always the awkward category for "people who kind of display the 'negative' symptoms of schizophrenia (which are more or less identical to the symptoms of AS), but aren't paranoid, and don't have delusions or hallucinate."

If you look at the symptoms for SPD and the symptoms for Asperger Syndrome (including the symptoms of inattentive ADHD), it basically comes down to "SPD begins spontaneously as an adult, AS begins in childhood". That's pretty much the only hard, objective, meaningful difference left.

Where things get sticky is the fact that most people diagnosed with SPD were diagnosed as adults, but if you really dig into their pasts (and look at their middle school and high school yearbooks), it quickly becomes obvious that almost all of them were blatant aspies (by the contemporary definition) as kids... and the few stragglers who weren't are almost always "odd" enough to sweep into the "schizotypal" category without anybody noticing.

A simultaneous diagnosis for AS and ADHD-PI is valuable, because it makes it clear that you're in the half of Aspies who benefit from stim meds. It also protects you in case some messed up state legislature passes a law preventing anyone without an official diagnosis of "AD(H)D" from purchasing CII stim meds, because you officially have IT, too.

A simultaneous diagnosis for AS and SPD is meaningless, because the only thing that distinguishes SPD from AS is childhood onset.

In other words, the doctor either diagnosed you first as SPD, and just left the diagnosis after figuring out you're an Aspie, or for some inane reason he decided to throw it in as a meaningless additional diagnosis for no apparent reason.


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09 Feb 2012, 9:44 pm

Wow, you seem really well-informed about these things! I always thought that SPD and AS were different things and was puzzled that I seem to have half of each, although actually some of the features of SPD could easily be part of what makes up the AS symptoms in a person (namely me for example). I was diagnosed with SPD decades ago, before AS was even heard of (in 1979 to be precise) and received a retrospective AS diagnosis in October of last year, which has confused me and I really do feel as though I should be thinking of myself as schizoid as I always have, but the AS features are there too and go back to earliest infancy (especially withdrawing to my room to do my visual stimming for hours - somehow I managed to do that for years without anyone noticing that that was going on 8O ) It would make a lot of sense if the SPD symptoms were part of some sort of "mild" AS, although I have to say that my SPD doesn't feel that mild and has had a really strong influence on my social functioning (for example incredible difficulties in holding down a full-time job or a live-in relationship, let alone both at once, which has been utterly impossible.)

I scour the internet for threads on SPD vs AS and they always list and discuss the differences, but that doesn't help at all because the differences are clear enough , but the problem is when you apparently have both although that is not supposed to be possible. I have to say that my SPD doesn't FEEL like the result of drawing some false conclusion from childhood trauma but more like something innate like AS, but on the other hand I can't really agree with my AS diagnosis because I think the evaluator jumped to too hasty conclusions based on what I was saying.



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10 Feb 2012, 2:01 am

Sorry but I have to totally disagree with dr10dguy, I think you're both pretty missinformed about AS.

Some backround: I've read several books on the schizo spectrum and I've read forums for schizoids, and I know some of the theory behind it, but what i really know about are the negative symptoms of schizophrenia and the symptoms of aspergers.

So let me break down the symptoms, because both of you are making stereotypical errors in your idea on Aspergers, and to be clear: I have a schizophrenic spectrum disorder myself, but I don't have Aspergers.

Schizoids are extreme in their expression of asociality - which is one negative symptoms of schizophrenia and only one of two negative symptoms that schizoids usually have, th eother being Alogia - poverty of speech (short answers to complex questions, rarely speaking unless spoken to etc). Negative symptons of schizophrenia usually not present (though they might appear present) are avolition - loss of motivation, catatonia, disorganization (some people consider this a positive symptom, I don't), cognitive issues and some stuff I'm probably forgetting.

So that's SPD's first defining feature: asociality, the other main one is the richness of their fantasy life, they often have complex, intricate and lively fantasies that they believe to be far superior to real life encounters.
So they hate to be around people and they love to daydream - to a huge extent.

What of ASD? the main symptoms are social deficits, repetitive behavior, sensory problems and executive dysfuntion, none of which are in SPD - asociality is not a social deficit, it is a choice to not be around people, it doesn't mean schizoids miss social cues, body language or metaphor, they often don't.

The one symptoms that supposedly makes SPD appear very similar to ASD is asociality, but really: I've met dozens of autistics on this website who quite enjoy socialising, they like to chat about interesting things and have fun, they're just quite introverted about it, the ones who don't socialise are often quite shy and anxious about it. I've found that asociality is actually fairly uncommon in high functioning autisms.

In short: ASP contains not core symptoms of ASD, ASD only sometimes contains a core SPD symptoms, and even then, it isn't a core ASD one. Another point I make is that Schizoid personality disorder isn't basically schizophrenia without positive symptoms, it doesn't even have half the negative symptoms. The schizophrenia which only presents with negative symptoms is "simple schizophrenia" or sometimes "prodromal/attenuated psychosis", the latter inplying that positive symptoms will eventually arrive, something I was diagosed with recently, though I disagree with the diagnosis.

A pretty simple way to decide which applies to you: ASD or SPD is this; do you have repetitive interests and were you asocial and repetitive as a child? If yes to both then go with ASD, it's arguably a more beneficial diagnosis since it's far more treatable then any personality disorder (notoriously hard to treat due to their egosyntonicicity - the sufferer sees nothing wrong) and it's more well known, even to laymen.

Regards
Phonic.


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dr01dguy
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10 Feb 2012, 10:16 am

Hmmm. You have a point. But admit it. When you look at people posting to SPD forums, tell me you don't feel like someone standing in a room and just going around pointing to everyone one by one: aspie... aspie... aspie... aspie... aspie... aspie... er, questionable... aspie... aspie... aspie... good god, BLATANT aspie... aspie... aspie... er, maybe non-aspie... aspie... aspie... aspie...

Maybe it's just the fact that there are so many egregiously misdiagnosed Aspies who ended up in the SPD category by virtue of having been born before ~1990 (or having a doctor who only recognizes the symptoms of "classic" 1994 AS, and thinks anybody who's ever daydreamed or gotten the point of a joke has to be SPD), but it really does seem like if you went into a crowded room full of people who were officially diagnosed with SPD & threw a baseball while blindfolded, the poor guy you hit would almost certainly end up being an Aspie after all if you re-evaluated him by modern criteria and examined his childhood for evidence that he'd always been that way.

I can easily see how an unmedicated highly-functioning Aspie could develop SPD as an adult coping mechanism over time. I have a very hard time seeing how somebody with no evidence of having Aspie neurochemical wiring or behavior during childhood could spontaneously become SPD out of the blue as an adult. Remember, there are plenty of aspies who daydream... they just tend to be at the "AS + AD(H)D(-PI)" end of the spectrum. And in the highest-functioning Aspies, the symptoms might be "there", but not necessarily obvious to a casual observer (or even the individual himself, if he doesn't know what to look for). It might not even be obvious that they're debilitating.

Here's an example: I have a major sensory-integration problem with taste & smell. Specifically, I'm incredibly picky about what I'll eat, and if you try to force me to eat something that's outside of my comfort zone, I'm likely to throw up. I get unbelievably stressed out by the thought of getting invited to dinner at somebody's house (or social dining events in general), and my ability to travel to any foreign country that doesn't have McDonalds, Taco Bell, and Pizza Hut is extremely constrained.

If I were forced to choose between spending a year in Bangalore or quitting my job, I'd have to quit, because ground beef accounts for ~90% of my food intake. If I spent a year eating nothing but cheese pizza and grilled cheese sandwiches (beef is illegal, or at least difficult to find, in India), I'm pretty sure I'd have major nutritional deficiencies within a few months. Yet, you wouldn't necessarily notice this problem by casually observing my life, because I'm good at avoiding social events involving a meal & can think of other excuses for avoiding international travel. But at the core, it's a sensory-integration problem that's pretty much insurmountable, and if I were forced into a situation where I couldn't control my environment, would be positively debilitating.


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10 Feb 2012, 12:31 pm

As a person DXed with Aspergers, but who was almost DXed as "schizoid"........

I'm largely asocial and have a vivid imagination. I'm still Aspie, though. I had very little interest in people as a kid, and still don't. Lorna Wing identified three Aspie "styles" in her research: active but odd, aloof, and passive. I fit the passive profile, but I was aloof as a child. Introverted Aspies exist as well as Aspies with alexithymia (which I suspect I have). The idea that a person with Aspergers is necessarily super-interested in interacting with people, and one can distinguish SPD from ASD on that basis, is a bit silly.

What can distinguish them? I not 100% sure, but here are a few observations:

1. I avoid people mainly because they don't interest me and we have nothing in common AND they also are unpredictable and cause me sensory overload. When I remember to interact with others, it's often a painful experience, although I can derive pleasure from social interactions on occasion.

2. I stim. SPDers don't. In fact, I stim even more than the typical Aspie. My psychologist declared that this was one of the primary features that pushed him towards ASD.

3. IMHO, SPDers seem to have an active hatred of humanity and evince extreme paranoia. I have no opinion about "humanity" either way except that they don't interest me.

4. My symptoms manifested in childhood as opposed to late teens/early twenties.

5. My lack of body language, facial expression, and gestures reminded my shrink of his patients with Aspergers.

That's just a few things. Make of them what you will. There are many "ands, ifs, and buts" to consider.


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10 Feb 2012, 6:29 pm

Quote:
Anyway, my problem with the SPD diagnosis is (among other things) that it doesn't square with a lifetime of (highly enjoyable and absolutely necessary) visual stimming and an (equally enjoyable and necessary) lifetime of really cool focus on my special interest., so it is interesting to learn that people classified as SPD don't lack these traits Smile . When I read about SPD it just seems so gray and lifeless and dead and I don't feel like that at all Sad .


I've also be diagnosed SPD starting at 19, the early symptoms starting at 15. That condition was originally triggered by a heavy use of drugs (starting at 17) and momentous stress that found it's origins inside my family's story.

However since childhood I was seen by my classmates and teachers as an "ambulant dictionnary" and a "little teacher" (my native language is French) and I was really hoping as a kid to become a journalist or to work in an economic field. Yet the atmosphere at home was rotten since the divorce of my parents and my results dropped from very good to just better than average.

Back in the mid 90's in my country, the teachers went on a strike for almost a whole year. I was in my third grade (sci-math option) and hoping to pass the following year to change to the litterature option. Since the strike lasted almost for 8 months, our governement decided to let pass all students of our dear country to the next year with a minimal examination.

There's usually in any ASD to SPD disorder a break point that you are not aware of when you reach it.

That's when I started not to trust my teachers and the whole "adult" community in general.

I got along with a bunch of bad guys and party crashers as on another side I was cultivating my strong interests into anime, Japanese culture in particular and East Asian cultures in general.

Other things I also liked were sci-fi novels (namely Asimov's, K.Dick's, Bradbury), dark-fantasy (Lovecraft) and physics (essentially classical physics). I wouldn't say I was a genius on any of these matters but sure I had a creative mind on my own and where at parties, when people were drunk high and jumping, I remember sitting and doing awkward things for which I was also seen as weirdo (counting number of flashing light, trying to determine their frequency and counting and observing people in the rooms which basically are not the best kind of social interactions you can have @ a party).

You'll be jumping for two hours but you'll want to do something else for the next 6 hours.

Sex in the toilets is not an option :)

The reason why I liked partying so much was that I've always been a huge music fan. It started very early with my father's passion for music. We used to listen a lot to Bob Marley (and we all know where it ends) and Donna Summer amongst other things.

Electronic music scene in the Europe was bringing us sounds like we had never heard before (Japan and Germany brought us a lot of good things along with US (ahh Detroit!).

Parties and music were not the main point of focus tought and I became more and more avid of drugs and the delusions they induced. I've tried almost everything that I could get back then: PCP, E, LSD, shrooms, speed, benzo and many others.

Back then, also, I wanted to leave for my one love: Japan, to become a male prostitute. I've read recently that the movement had expanded a lot since then, that was, maybe, an idea.

The particularity of ASD is the mind can focus on things and let the body act on it's own in an automated way for a time, at least... sometimes. That time lasted a little too long for me and while I was exploring some kind of other realms, while on drugs, my physical condition depracated and it ended in a total mind crash.

That's when my crisis started.

I dropped the books,started to watch TV all day long and locked myself in my room for months. All that happened in a matter of one year and a half. It still makes me feel weird when I think of my life back then. I will spare you the details that you will find watching "The Aviator", "A beautiful Mind", "Identity" or "American Psycho" for the delirium and the hygiene.

Suffering is a daily condition when you're into a crisis. The sun raising in the morning and the birds singing can be a real delight, tough.

Bad things are: the voices, when they are agressive and the "day"mares (you're not always daydreaming: you'll rather be scared by your delusions most of the time).

The cops broke into my home and and took me by force to the hospital on the advice of a doctor when I was starting to draw mountains on my wooden floor with a stylus.

From that period, I still have over a hundred pages of writings and drawings. It's not so bad after all, I think I still could throw some s**t @ the world if I wanted to.

I finished the saga of Dune by F. Herbert during the first months at hospital and I started to read C.G. Jung in order to try to have a better understanding of what I was heading to (on this I must say that LSD+Dune is a bad idea ^_^).

My crisis as one of my doctors told me, years later (I spent more 7 years in psychiatry) was not to be lifetime crisis. It had reached a peak at some point and it was just going to fade away slowly with time and meds (at least I hang on that hope and that's what helped me most since then).

Just a parenthesis, here, to say that my mental hospital times were both the most awesome and high times in my life except for all the problems that my mother caused: I had the wildest dreams of my life, I met the most insane and the coolest people over there and I have learned things about life that I will try not to forget.

I have also seen some of the most horrendous things in their walls, and still now, because of that I tend to believe that the society itself in constantly in a kind of muted war. Mental Hospitals are in a way the first line of that social muted war and I worship some of my doctors for the help they gave me.

I went out once and for all at 27.

What is most interesting to notice with this ASD+PSD (mainly paranoïa) is that it was in the end considered by doctors as a bipolar disorder.

Also, I finally have the same points of interests as when I was a kid and a teenager but I don't read novels anymore: I consider them as a waste of time and a threat for my internal balance.

All is not dark in SPD especially if you have most of the positive traits, some optimism for brighter tomorrows and if you learn manage it with some help. It's bad when you become obsessional and extreme in some ways.

All is neither totally bright or dark in ASD for other reasons.

Both helped me in some cases but both are difficult to manage in harder times of life (e.g: the recent death, two weeks ago of

my grand-father which was the only man left of the family).

For both you need to take care of some things.

Drugs can influe greatly on my mental condition.

I've also found myself in awkward position when I drank too much and, more than 3 cigarettes a day destroy my mood.

I'm an isoflavine addict since I'm a kid and that's the only thing that has no side effects.

PSD tends to push you to the extreme in many ways, you'll need some help sometimes.

For anything else writing helps also.

Drink a lot of water is really good for me as well as living in a quiet place.

If sometimes you feel you want to get "bad", read Bukowsky. No one will ever reach again the size that man had. It should make you want to give up.

The internet is slippy.

I don't watch horror movies and I try to avoid anything that could activate my Dark Side.

I keep my mind clean except for shrooms, less than once a year and lulz on 4chan.

I have to bear my cross.

I don't post on the internet usually cos it's a waste of time and I think just like above humanity can not be helped.

I care for the people I love, like my grandma, my wife and son.

The rest is up to yourself...



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10 Feb 2012, 9:02 pm

@Phonic: I'm intrigued, because you're literally the first person I've seen who was *adamant* about being 100% SPD and totally non-Aspie.

I have a question... are you also saying that you didn't exhibit similar symptoms as a child, and that if push came to shove, you couldn't come up with enough examples of symptoms *now* to satisfy the criteria for AS (even if the examples were fairly minor and barely noticeable, let alone *debilitating*)?

Remember, my central theory is that at the end of the day, "SPD" is *still* "Aspie neurochemical wiring", even if it's a very, very mild instance of it.

Also, have you ever taken Ritalin, Concerta, Adderall, Dexedrine, Desoxyn/methamphetamine, Cylert, TCAs, etc? What effect did they have on you?


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10 Feb 2012, 11:43 pm

(argh. site lacks protection from twice-submitted forms, and Android browsers resubmit http POST requests without warning)


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Last edited by dr01dguy on 11 Feb 2012, 9:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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11 Feb 2012, 2:03 am

I kind of know of lot of this theoritical garbage. If you ask me SPD, Aspergers and APD have the same building blocks but the result is different. In the way they present socially:
SPD people generally can't be bothered.
APD people just say " you" "I get what I want"
And Aspergers people just don't understand.
But I know this is just another generalisation and pretty meaningless.



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11 Feb 2012, 7:32 am

dr01dguy wrote:
@Phonic: I'm intrigued, because you're literally the first person I've seen who was *adamant* about being 100% SPD and totally non-Aspie.


I didn't say I had SPD in particular, I said I was on the schizophrenia spectrum, it's sort of muddy beyond that, my psychiatrist in the the process of deciding whether or not I have Schizoaffective Disorder, Bipolar type.

Quote:
I have a question... are you also saying that you didn't exhibit similar symptoms as a child,


Not in any clinically significant amount, though my personality would have had a professional say I was at risk of developing mental illness later in life. That sort of shy,, sensetive insulur, intelligent personality - the sort whose destined to have Major Depression at some point,
but I had friends , I played imaginatively, was mildly popular and known for my good sense of humor and cheerfulness, all my teachers loved me, though that changed after puberty and I entered middle school, where I became known as the kid who constantly argues with teachers.

Quote:
and that if push came to shove, you couldn't come up with enough examples of symptoms *now* to satisfy the criteria for AS (even if the examples were fairly minor and barely noticeable, let alone *debilitating*)?


In a very superficial above the surface way I might come off as an aspie, indeed I have to some people, but for very different reasons, I could name a bunch of things I do that would convince anyone I'm autistic, but there's a lot more to it then that.
I come out above average in my ability to understand social situations, I'm good at body language, I'm very expressive in my use of language, and quite capable of friendly chit chat and free flowing conversation, but I'm also introverted and gifted, a combination that gives a superficial appearence of autism due to great articulatness, I preference to being alone, unusual hobbies and interests, unusual topics in conversation, I speak quite quickly etc.

In some ways I'm actually more socially perceptive then most, despite not actually being an NT (if you believe ADD and schizophrenias mean you're not an NT), I say very odd things and ask odd questions at are inappropriate - but I'm fully aware of how inappropriate it is, I often just don't care and I'm curious as to their reactions. My favoured question is "What's your favourite color for a sock", the correct answer is light grey.

In some areas I'm very anti aspie, I'm really erratic, moody, messy, attention seeking, sometimes even manipulative, I care about my appearence greatly (to a degree that is clinically significant), wearing formal clothing most days regardless of weather.
Admittedly there are two things about me that are pretty aspie: I have sensory issues and I'm fairly clumsy, but neither are central or even official criteria to AS

Well I hope you've enjoyed this forae into the mind of an uncommon specimen.

Quote:
Remember, my central theory is that at the end of the day, "SPD" is *still* "Aspie neurochemical wiring", even if it's a very, very mild instance of it.


I don't think SPD is part of the autism spectrum or the schizophrenia spectrum, I don't think it's a disorder at all, and I'm not one of those "aspies for freedom" types, I think AS is a disorder, but I don't really know enough about SPD to say. AS is more my field

[/quote]Also, have you ever taken Ritalin, Concerta, Adderall, Dexedrine, Desoxyn/methamphetamine, Cylert, TCAs, etc? What effect did they have on you?[/quote]

No, none of them, I've taken Prozac, Epilum (It's like Lithium) and Respirdal, I'm still on the last two, I was taken off Prozac when I became manic.


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11 Feb 2012, 9:40 am

Phonic wrote:
"I don't think SPD is part of the autism spectrum or the schizophrenia spectrum, I don't think it's a disorder at all."

That has always been my view, too. I'm supposed to be schizoid. Whether schizoid equals SPD or not depends more on the social circumstances of the affected individual than on anything else. If a person is a really, really extreme introvert with minimal social contacts or needs they seem to qualify for a schizoid diagnosis (as in my case). But as long as society leaves them in peace to do whatever it is they like doing (ie in that they have a private income, for example, which I don't have, or they're a writer or something) there is no reason why the condition should present itself as a disorder. The problem is if you want/need some things which require being social and can't meet those needs because you are too unsocial to do so (ie your relationships collapse because no-one can cope with your solitary ways or you keep getting burnt out at work because you can't deal with being around people so much). As a monk such a person would probably do fine and not present as disturbed at all. Probably very different things get lumped together in the schizoid diagnosis, including both extreme introverts and also people who actually ARE on the schizophrenic spectrum and whose withdrawal comes from being seriously cut off from their feelings or body or whatever and who are at real risk of developing schizophrenia.

My motive for starting this thread was really a sense of frustration at diagnoses in general, because it is clear enough to me what being schizoid is supposed to mean and also what AS is supposed to be and while I have at different times been diagnosed with both neither fits me correctly. If you have strong emotions at times or feel really lonely for want of a girlfriend (as I usually did when I was young) you can't really have SPD because they are supposed to be cold and have little interest in such things. If you stim that is suppposed to show you don't have SPD but AS, and if you have strongly focussed interests that you really enjoy you also don't have SPD. So I'm not schizoid. Then I look at the AS diagnosis and I'm not really that either; I just have some strange autistic-looking habits as far as I can see and that doesn't make me AS. So I'm left with throwing out both diagnoses, which isn't very satisfactory because I'm not very normal. I suppose a person can just be "a bit strange" with schizoid and autistic-looking traits which make them rather badly adjusted to normal life.

I have read that most people with SPD don't present for treatment because they don't realise that there is anything wrong with them. I have also read that many specialists don't think there is such a thing as SPD and that it's just a normal human variation. So you have people who don't think they have a problem failing to visit specialists who don't think they have a problem. Which is only a problem if you are one of the specialists who think they do have a problem and that the other group of specialists are wrong.

On the other hand AS is very real and it seems regrettable if the concept is now so watered down to include people who only exhibit a few autistic-looking traits.



XFilesGeek
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11 Feb 2012, 11:35 am

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In some areas I'm very anti aspie, I'm really erratic, moody, messy, attention seeking, sometimes even manipulative, I care about my appearence greatly (to a degree that is clinically significant), wearing formal clothing most days regardless of weather.
Admittedly there are two things about me that are pretty aspie: I have sensory issues and I'm fairly clumsy, but neither are central or even official criteria to AS.


Being messy isn't "anti-Aspie," neither is playing imaginatively, or caring about how you look. Being erratic and moody seems fairly common in many members here who were DX with Aspergers.

None of these things are central or official criteria for AS. Then again, the desire, or lack of desire, for friends doesn't have much to do with AS either.

I've never understood the process by which some will attempt to determine what is "definitely AS" or "definitely not AS" based on traits that don't really have much to do with the central deficits of AS, especially when co-morbids are taken into account. Researchers are still scrambling to determine what EXACTLY AS/autism are; therefore, I don't see much of a point of over-analyzing AS v. Everything Else when it comes to conditions with fuzzy borders. At least, not until we have the actual brain science to back-up our speculation.

I have many schizoid traits, including being highly imaginative and messy, but I was DX Aspergers by the mental health professional who is trained to know these things. I don't stress over it.


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Deinonychus
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13 Feb 2012, 7:54 am

XFilesGeek wrote:

I have many schizoid traits, including being highly imaginative and messy, but I was DX Aspergers by the mental health professional who is trained to know these things. I don't stress over it.


Cool that you don't stress over it. I'm still trying to get to that point but I hope to be able to drop the issue before too long. I've decided the schizoid diagnosis fits me better and just think of myself as schizoid with a few aspie traits, ie the other way round to you. I don't know why some of us obsess so much over our labels, but I certainly do and would do better not to because it leads nowhere.