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OliveOilMom
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17 Jun 2012, 10:06 am

I don't know if they are channeling Michael Vick or what, but my dogs are at it again. It's only outside that they are like this. Inside, they are chilled and do things like bite fleas off of each other and lay in the middle of the floor. When I let them in the backyard it turns into a National Geographic Special. Thats when they remember that they have that high content of wolf in them and they just go at it. I let them out this morning, rather I let the white one out, I had to push the grey one out while he was laying on his back and I was on my hands and knees because he won't go out. As soon as they got out, BAM the fight started. I had to get the broom and hit them with it and that almost didn't stop them. I was about to go get the dust buster and point it at them and turn it on. They are terrified of the dust buster. But I'm not sure how well it would work outside, because outside they are completely different dogs, behaviorwise. It's like inside the house we are the alphas but outside we lose all status and they don't mind anymore. Not that they mind all that well inside.

So, any thoughts or suggestions? Other wolfdog owners, please tell me what you do about this.


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Kjas
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17 Jun 2012, 10:46 am

OliveOilMom wrote:
I don't know if they are channeling Michael Vick or what, but my dogs are at it again. It's only outside that they are like this. Inside, they are chilled and do things like bite fleas off of each other and lay in the middle of the floor. When I let them in the backyard it turns into a National Geographic Special. Thats when they remember that they have that high content of wolf in them and they just go at it. I let them out this morning, rather I let the white one out, I had to push the grey one out while he was laying on his back and I was on my hands and knees because he won't go out. As soon as they got out, BAM the fight started. I had to get the broom and hit them with it and that almost didn't stop them. I was about to go get the dust buster and point it at them and turn it on. They are terrified of the dust buster. But I'm not sure how well it would work outside, because outside they are completely different dogs, behaviorwise. It's like inside the house we are the alphas but outside we lose all status and they don't mind anymore. Not that they mind all that well inside.

So, any thoughts or suggestions? Other wolfdog owners, please tell me what you do about this.


Things that have worked for me before:

1) Citronella spray - mix citronella oil and water, put it in a spray bottle. They hate this, spray as needed. Even me picking up a spray bottle these days means my two go instantly to their beds and lie down without me saying a word. Works extra well if you spray it on their nose if they are really misbehaving.
(warning: never spray a cat with this)

2) Let them outside at separate times - usually they will rather stay together than be separated. If you make it clear every time they fight, it's a separate timetable, they get the idea pretty quickly. Combined with the spray above - it seems to be a very effective tactic. Also, feed them at separate ends of the backyard if possible - preferably where they can't see each other.

3) Find out why they are fighting in the first place - there's no use just punishing them without addressing the root cause of the behaviour. Is one more dominant than the other, and likes to remind the other of that at inappropriate times (e.g. feeding time, stealing the warm spots and refusing the other near etc)? Watch closely and see who is instigating it. You have to remember the instincts are much stronger, so things like dominance, territoriality and pecking order are much more important to them, thus they are much more likely to be aggressive over these things.


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Last edited by Kjas on 17 Jun 2012, 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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17 Jun 2012, 10:49 am

It may be a territorial thing. I remember my friend had (and still has) a dog who would bark and bark and bark whenever I saw him, I'd known it since the fourth grade and it always terrified me. Once I managed to touch it, but it was because my friend's brother was in town, the true owner of the dog, and whenever it showed a little hint of aggressiveness it was scolded promptly, and nothing happened. The other time I could touch it was when my friend took it to the park outside the house, there it was quite docile, very cute actually.

My friend's explanation was, the dog saw the house as his territory, and protected it fiercely from outsiders. My friend could pet it just fine, but he wasn't his owner so when he was around I'd still get barked at and stuff. But when my friend's brother came, it saw him as the alpha and did as he said. And outside his territory, he didn't saw the need to protect it and lost it's aggressiveness.

I'd say, maybe they see inside the house as your territory, while outside it's so far undecided so they fight to assert their alphaness over the other. Solutions... maaaaaybe let them fight until they get it sorted out, my friend had also another dog and he let them fight until there was a winner, and no lasting damage was done. He says they fought a lot at first, but after a while one of the dogs started winning most of the fights, and then the other just stopped bothering him. It's a bit risky so I won't push that option on you. The other option could be being more authoritative outside, to make it "your territory" too, but I just don't know how can anyone do that.


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OliveOilMom
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17 Jun 2012, 11:24 am

Wolfdogs will fight until the other one is dead if you let them. We usually have to get some seriously painful intervention when they fight. Imagine this ok, this isn't terriors fighting or something. Two hundred pound plus dogs are snarling, foaming at the mouth, standing up on back legs and biting hard at each others throats. We had had some injuries. I got a pretty good bite last year from breaking them up by grabbing them. Oddly enough, once I was bit they seperated, put their tails and ears down and laid down. My husband and I are the undisputed alphas with them and we have to be or else risk injury. That does not mean I don't pet them and talk baby talk to them, because I do. But when they get like this, it's not two dogs fighting, it's two wild ass animals fighting over something they would die for. Apparantly that's permission to be on the deck, because it's the highest spot in the yard. You have to actually hit them hard with things to stop it and seperate them.

I'll try the spray that the other poster suggested, but does it work on wolfdogs? They aren't like actual dogs in a lot of ways.


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Kjas
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17 Jun 2012, 11:30 am

OliveOilMom wrote:
Wolfdogs will fight until the other one is dead if you let them. We usually have to get some seriously painful intervention when they fight. Imagine this ok, this isn't terriors fighting or something. Two hundred pound plus dogs are snarling, foaming at the mouth, standing up on back legs and biting hard at each others throats. We had had some injuries. I got a pretty good bite last year from breaking them up by grabbing them. Oddly enough, once I was bit they seperated, put their tails and ears down and laid down. My husband and I are the undisputed alphas with them and we have to be or else risk injury. That does not mean I don't pet them and talk baby talk to them, because I do. But when they get like this, it's not two dogs fighting, it's two wild ass animals fighting over something they would die for. Apparantly that's permission to be on the deck, because it's the highest spot in the yard. You have to actually hit them hard with things to stop it and seperate them.

I'll try the spray that the other poster suggested, but does it work on wolfdogs? They aren't like actual dogs in a lot of ways.


I know the fights you're on about - I know they're not normal dogs. Normal dogs are childs play in comparison! :lol:

I have one wolf, and one wolfdog. The spray works on them even better than normal because they have an even better sense of smell, but always take something else heavy (baseball bat or somewhat, something that isn't your arms) to separate them just in case it doesn't work. If they're going at it like that, I really think you need to separate them when it comes to going outside, let one out first, then call him back in, then let the other out. At least until you figure out why they are going at it.


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OliveOilMom
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17 Jun 2012, 11:47 am

Kjas wrote:
OliveOilMom wrote:
Wolfdogs will fight until the other one is dead if you let them. We usually have to get some seriously painful intervention when they fight. Imagine this ok, this isn't terriors fighting or something. Two hundred pound plus dogs are snarling, foaming at the mouth, standing up on back legs and biting hard at each others throats. We had had some injuries. I got a pretty good bite last year from breaking them up by grabbing them. Oddly enough, once I was bit they seperated, put their tails and ears down and laid down. My husband and I are the undisputed alphas with them and we have to be or else risk injury. That does not mean I don't pet them and talk baby talk to them, because I do. But when they get like this, it's not two dogs fighting, it's two wild ass animals fighting over something they would die for. Apparantly that's permission to be on the deck, because it's the highest spot in the yard. You have to actually hit them hard with things to stop it and seperate them.

I'll try the spray that the other poster suggested, but does it work on wolfdogs? They aren't like actual dogs in a lot of ways.


I know the fights you're on about - I know they're not normal dogs. Normal dogs are childs play in comparison! :lol:

I have one wolf, and one wolfdog. The spray works on them even better than normal because they have an even better sense of smell, but always take something else heavy (baseball bat or somewhat, something that isn't your arms) to separate them just in case it doesn't work. If they're going at it like that, I really think you need to separate them when it comes to going outside, let one out first, then call him back in, then let the other out. At least until you figure out why they are going at it.


I'll try it Kjas, ty. This usually happens in the winter, not the summer. They are normally such good pets but sometimes they are such as*holes, aren't they? I have to push the grey one out the door because he wont go out. I mean I am literally on my hands and knees, pushing a dog laying on his back across the floor and out the door, then I have to slam it before he gets back in. Otherwise he poo's in the house.

Oddly enough he is afraid of the huge rabbit my daughter has. He goes to my room when she lets it out and I shut the door and he's happy. I don't know if he just wants to kill it and knows he cant so he goes in the other room or what. The white one ignores it completely and just growls at it when it hops near him, so he gets on the furniture.

They can be so doggy like one minute and so damn wild animal scary like the next that it's not funny. But, you have to get used to that and not be scared by it or they win. Mine ate the siding off the back of my house and also ate some barbed wire we had on the old fence. Now we have an electric fence, so they don't go near it now. Yeah it'll hurt. We should get signs for it but so far we haven't needed them. I figure if somebody comes on my property and puts their hands on my fence, well, they deserve what they get.

Do you have play sessions with yours? I do sometimes with mine. The white one will bite more than he means to sometimes though so I don't play with him as much.

Let me tell you a story that you will appreciate. People think wolfdogs will protect you. No, they won't. Not at all. Not too long ago, a friend of my son's came over. It was during a school day and I was the only one here. He was home sick but came over to see the new xbox. He just walked in like normal, but he hadn't been over since we had the dogs. He was one of my sons younger childhood friends.

Now, Rashad is a very tall and very big black boy. The dogs haven't seen black people before and you know how some black people are about dogs. Rashad was one of those. He walked in and before the door was shut behind him the dogs were there smelling. He freaked. I was in the front bathroom cleaning it and he ran in there, leaving the door open. He grabbed me screaming "Miss Frances, them dogs, Miss Frances!" and threw me in front of him and wouldn't let go. I was struggeling to get away because I hadn't heard the front door shut.

My big wolfdogs, which scare the crap out of most people, were not at all concerned that I was grabbed up and not let go by this yelling, big black stranger. They went and laid down in my room.

I finally got away and shut the front door and my bedroom door and read Rashad the riot act of "what if they had got out!" Then I let him go play with my son's xbox.

So no, they don't protect sh*t except their own stuff and you nor I are it.


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Kjas
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17 Jun 2012, 12:28 pm

OliveOilMom wrote:
This usually happens in the winter, not the summer. They are normally such good pets but sometimes they are such as*holes, aren't they?


:lmao: In my house, animals who would anywhere else be considered "as*holes" are the norm.

It usually happens in winter with my two as well, and they usually fight over who gets to have the den for the night if they get locked out of the house by my housemate and I'm not home. In fact, they just had their first one last week, since winter started here.

Mine are okay with the cats, but it took them a while when the newest two were introduced. They are scared of turtles though. :lol:

Oh, you can't leave anything even remotely edible around or accessible. Rubber mats? Gone. Socks left on the line after dark? Gone. Leave the gate open to the vegetable garden? A good assortment of butternut squash, carrots and beetroot - gone. They even chewed through the wires on the TV - I had to reinforce the new ones in steel covering.

I think that's a key point though, they're not really pets, are they? And treating them like pets is downright dangerous. They are companions, and you have to respect them for what they are, a wild animal, or at least not a domesticated animal. My housemate has trouble with the male one in particular because he insists on treating them like pets - I've told him and told him, but he's just not good with animals unless they are the domesticated type.

We do have play sessions, but they don't bite. They will "hold" (pressure, but nothing more) but never bite. They both weigh more than me, so they need to be extremely well trained. I usually take them fishing or occasionally hunting instead of playing, so they can get me dinner and get theirs too. 5 fish later and we are done for the afternoon. It works better because it gets rid of a lot more energy, they have to be fast to catch them and it takes all of their concentration.

:lmao: Well in that situation I do feel bad for the poor kid. Mine will and do (and it scares the hell out of people), but you are correct, not all of them do. I think it depends on the individual, some seem to have the protection thing stronger than others.


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17 Jun 2012, 1:29 pm

They're probably agitated by all those fleas biting them every day. Get some flea collars. That should help.



OliveOilMom
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17 Jun 2012, 1:34 pm

Flea collers only help if the flea trips over the coller and breaks its neck. We use topspot type stuff. They still get fleas though because they have that very thick coat.


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17 Jun 2012, 1:44 pm

OliveOilMom wrote:
Flea collers only help if the flea trips over the coller and breaks its neck.


Ain't that the truth.

Though it is true. My dog's very snippy and grumpy when he's itchy... understandably.