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Orwell
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30 Nov 2012, 1:33 pm

Just thought Inuyasha and other doomsayers would like to know. Where's your hyperinflation now?


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1000Knives
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30 Nov 2012, 1:55 pm

Bread went up from 79c to 85c here.



Trencher93
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30 Nov 2012, 2:12 pm

How much does real bread cost? A lot of bread is cheap because it has filler in it. I've seen this happening in recent years. Food items have filler - juice suddenly has a "blend" of cheap filler juices besides whatever the main juice is. Stores will mark up an item double its price and then have "50% off" but the actual price is still more than it was a year or two ago. They try every trick they can to keep people from knowing the actual price. Inflation is happening, it's just harder than ever to measure it. Every time a product changes its packaging or logo, the first thing I look at is the quantity to see if it is reduced. Over the past few years, Kleenex's 300-count box has been reduced to 240.

Products are getting more and more shoddy. I've also noticed the middle has disappeared. You either see completely low-end junk, or high-end ultraexpensive stuff, but the solid, reliable middle products are disappearing. So there may not be price inflation, but the same product 10-15 years ago was better made and more durable. I bought a reference copy of the original HCSB Bible translation a few years ago. They came out with a new edition in 2011, and I picked up a copy. The two are the same basic large-print, hand-size editions, comparable in every way, but the quality of the 2011 is remarkably lower.

Even Apple laptops are more expensive, and you get a lot less. The 17" screen laptop with a DVD drive and an ethernet port is now a 15" screen with a lot of features missing. They try to spin this so it's some sort of "cool" or "hip" design, but it's less computer for more money.

Now we're not having Weimar Germany style hyperinflation, but inflation is real and is happening. The slow, stead erosion of buying power and savings by a society loaded by debt is still not healthy.



AngelRho
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30 Nov 2012, 2:17 pm

I recently started a vegetarian diet--was going to be temporary, but now seriously considering going veg or semi-veg (fish, and maybe a steak once or twice a year) permanently--so I've been keenly aware of bread and produce prices. If I were to go back to eating meat, sure, I could probably eat 3 squares at McDonald's cheaper than I can get produce at the grocery. If you have a good line on some cheaper whole-grain, I'd like to know which communist nation you're smuggling it from, because bread ain't cheap where I live!

What would really be nice is if I could get some cheap whole rye and make my own pumpernickel, but cost of bread-making supplies outweighs the benefit for me at this time.



Orwell
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30 Nov 2012, 2:26 pm

Trencher93 wrote:
How much does real bread cost? A lot of bread is cheap because it has filler in it.

I bought a loaf of the fancy premium bread (with no artificial ingredients, HFCS, etc) earlier this week for roughly the same price I spent on bread a year or two ago. Another poster on here and I had a large disagreement a while ago when he was predicting something ridiculous like $10/loaf bread.

Quote:
Products are getting more and more shoddy. I've also noticed the middle has disappeared. You either see completely low-end junk, or high-end ultraexpensive stuff, but the solid, reliable middle products are disappearing. So there may not be price inflation, but the same product 10-15 years ago was better made and more durable. I bought a reference copy of the original HCSB Bible translation a few years ago. They came out with a new edition in 2011, and I picked up a copy. The two are the same basic large-print, hand-size editions, comparable in every way, but the quality of the 2011 is remarkably lower.

Availability heuristic. You remember the well-made product you bought a decade or two ago that is still chugging along faithfully, but you've long since forgotten the cheap crap you bought and replaced from the same time period.

Declining quality of printed materials might actually be real. That particular industry has been struggling to compete in the digital age, so maybe they really are cutting corners more than they used to. But that's an effect of new technology that the market still has not fully adjusted to.

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Now we're not having Weimar Germany style hyperinflation, but inflation is real and is happening. The slow, stead erosion of buying power and savings by a society loaded by debt is still not healthy.

Household debt in the United States is actually down rather dramatically in the last few years. Since the last crash, Americans have grown much more conservative in managing their finances. Inflation in the US has historically been low and continues to be quite low. We were even seeing some deflation shortly after the last big crash.

Let me pre-empt here and say that I'm aware there are big problems; the middle class in America has been shrinking for decades and I'm not minimizing that. But some people (notably Inuyasha on this board) were prophesying the collapse of civilization under Obama and that clearly has not happened.


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Orwell
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30 Nov 2012, 2:31 pm

AngelRho wrote:
I recently started a vegetarian diet--was going to be temporary, but now seriously considering going veg or semi-veg (fish, and maybe a steak once or twice a year) permanently--so I've been keenly aware of bread and produce prices. If I were to go back to eating meat, sure, I could probably eat 3 squares at McDonald's cheaper than I can get produce at the grocery. If you have a good line on some cheaper whole-grain, I'd like to know which communist nation you're smuggling it from, because bread ain't cheap where I live!

What would really be nice is if I could get some cheap whole rye and make my own pumpernickel, but cost of bread-making supplies outweighs the benefit for me at this time.

Buy a bread machine. It's a relatively large up-front investment ($100-$200 for a good one) but the raw ingredients for bread are cheaper than a finished loaf and you'll make up the cost fairly quickly, plus a bread machine does nearly all the work for you (just dump in the ingredients, press a few buttons, and wait). Even someone like me can figure out how to use one. Grain isn't too expensive. Fresh produce might be, depending on the time of year and where you are in the country. Remember that only a generation ago fresh produce simply was not available at certain times of the year, at any price. We have it pretty good, all things considered.


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SpiritBlooms
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30 Nov 2012, 2:33 pm

..



Last edited by SpiritBlooms on 04 Dec 2012, 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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30 Nov 2012, 2:45 pm

..



Last edited by SpiritBlooms on 04 Dec 2012, 1:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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30 Nov 2012, 3:03 pm

Orwell wrote:
Let me pre-empt here and say that I'm aware there are big problems; the middle class in America has been shrinking for decades and I'm not minimizing that. But some people (notably Inuyasha on this board) were prophesying the collapse of civilization under Obama and that clearly has not happened.


The problem is that a lot of these austerian, hyper-inflation fear-mongerers have been advocating policies that'd make matters worse. While the economy's teetered with disinflation and deflation at various points, high official unemployment and high numbers of discouraged workers, these austerians have advocated fiscal & monetary contraction. Those policies are devastating the UK and the European Central Bank's tight monetary policy is tearing the EU apart.


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Last edited by Master_Pedant on 30 Nov 2012, 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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30 Nov 2012, 3:04 pm

Orwell wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
I recently started a vegetarian diet--was going to be temporary, but now seriously considering going veg or semi-veg (fish, and maybe a steak once or twice a year) permanently--so I've been keenly aware of bread and produce prices. If I were to go back to eating meat, sure, I could probably eat 3 squares at McDonald's cheaper than I can get produce at the grocery. If you have a good line on some cheaper whole-grain, I'd like to know which communist nation you're smuggling it from, because bread ain't cheap where I live!

What would really be nice is if I could get some cheap whole rye and make my own pumpernickel, but cost of bread-making supplies outweighs the benefit for me at this time.

Buy a bread machine. It's a relatively large up-front investment ($100-$200 for a good one) but the raw ingredients for bread are cheaper than a finished loaf and you'll make up the cost fairly quickly, plus a bread machine does nearly all the work for you (just dump in the ingredients, press a few buttons, and wait). Even someone like me can figure out how to use one. Grain isn't too expensive. Fresh produce might be, depending on the time of year and where you are in the country. Remember that only a generation ago fresh produce simply was not available at certain times of the year, at any price. We have it pretty good, all things considered.


Do bread machines work for rice flower?


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30 Nov 2012, 3:10 pm

i have one that does, it is a husqvarna brand one my parents gave me when i moved out, works wonders for spelt as well.

we used it for making rice bread,


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30 Nov 2012, 3:56 pm

Inflation is certainly happening, food prices have definitely gone up over the last few years.

Part of the reason there isn't more inflation now is because all this "new money" is being sat on by the banks, they're not lending. There isn't that much more money in circulation right now.

With the recession people have less money and are becoming more conservative with the money they do have so there is less competition for goods, the may also be more efficiency and cost cutting measures going on to offset inflation as well. Official numbers that measure inflation are manipulated and can't really be trusted.



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30 Nov 2012, 4:14 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Inflation is certainly happening, food prices have definitely gone up over the last few years.


Food prices have risen due to a few supply shocks from droughts (nothing that public policy really drives - unless you count the lack of climate change mitigation - which is a policy decision to not act that only takes effect in the really long run) and due to increased demand from the emerging Sino-Indian middle class.


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bigwheel
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30 Nov 2012, 4:19 pm

We have a cheap bread maker..Black and Decker I think. Works greats. Also nice to use on the dough setting for making Flour Tortillas or most other kinds of flat bread. Havent got around to using it in a few years. Thanks for the reminder. I best make some bread around here.



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30 Nov 2012, 6:16 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Official numbers that measure inflation are manipulated and can't really be trusted.

Evidence, please?


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30 Nov 2012, 7:01 pm

Bread prices have more than doubled in the UK in the last 7 years. Average price for an 800g loaf is now £1.26 ($2.02).
Food prices have risen by 32% in the UK over the last 5 years.
Maybe not the end of the world, but people notice it.