Is classic autism worse than Aspergers?

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Dbz33
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18 May 2020, 2:32 pm

Are people with classic autism more impaired then those with Aspergers?
I have a diagnosis of classic autism.


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naturalplastic
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18 May 2020, 2:46 pm

The short answer is....yes.

Classic autism is pretty much the same thing as "low functioning autism" which is now officially called "level 3 autism" (autism requiring a lot of support).

Aspergers is no longer recognized in the DSM. Its now lumped under "high functioning autism", or to put it into more official terms: level one autism with no speech delay.

Minimal support, and you learned to talk at the normal time babies learn to talk.



Jon81
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18 May 2020, 3:30 pm

Dbz33 wrote:
Are people with classic autism more impaired then those with Aspergers?
I have a diagnosis of classic autism.


Would you mind giving some details about your diagnosis? What age were you when you were diagnosed and what difficulties did you have as a toddler? Late talker? obliviousness?

I have two boys with classic autism and I am very much interested in hearing from all you classic autistic what the world is like from your point of view.


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18 May 2020, 4:39 pm

Jon81 wrote:
I have two boys with classic autism and I am very much interested in hearing from all you classic autistic what the world is like from your point of view.

I think Ido in Autismland is a good book for this. Non-speaking teenager with classic autism.



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18 May 2020, 7:02 pm

I guess the only answer to the original question is that it depends on the individual.

A large component of the distinction between classic autism and asperger's is based on the ability to speak, or lack thereof.

Yet in many cases sensory issues can be far more debilitating than the lack of ability to speak.

I, along with many others, am not entirely sure how useful functioning labels are. An individuals functioning can change so much throughout life that giving them a functioning label may do more harm than good.

This is especially true when diagnosing young children. Sure, it's possible to diagnose an 18-month old with autism... but how reliably can you extrapolate how much support that individual is going to need as an adult? Not very.

Finally, I'll leave you with this: An article describing childhood diagnosis in Psychology Today.


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18 May 2020, 7:29 pm

Dbz33 wrote:
Are people with classic autism more impaired then those with Aspergers?
I have a diagnosis of classic autism.


Every child is different and there is a constellation of comorbidities and environmental factors that influence outcomes. The labels can change as the child diagnosed with "classic autism" (level 3) can grow/develop to be level 2 or even 1 with normal speech. Conversely children can regress as adults.

I am assuming you aren't cognitively challenged?



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18 May 2020, 7:52 pm

One can have “high-functioning” classic autism without having Asperger’s.

Many people with “classic” autism speak and have normal intelligence. It would be evident to an observer that they don’t have Asperger’s.



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18 May 2020, 8:04 pm

The only difference between "high functioning" autism and Aspergers was in Aspergers "There is no clinically significant general delay in language e.g., single words used by age two years, communicative phrases used by age three years".


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18 May 2020, 8:56 pm

I have seen both Asperger’s and HFA.

There were some “high-functioning” people with autism who have no signs of being Aspergian, whatsoever. One of them is a student at a college where I work.



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18 May 2020, 9:03 pm

Well, I can say that I was officially diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome, and a lot of people who have high-functioning autism seem to function far better than I do. Granted, I was diagnosed when I was in fourth grade and I believe my autism has gotten significantly more severe, or at least more apparent, since then. If re-assessed today, I would probably be put in the category of "level 2 autism."


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Archmage Arcane
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18 May 2020, 10:42 pm

I don't agree with the reclassification in DSM-5 and no therapist or neuropsych I've ever met does either.

I still consider Asperger's and classic autism as different conditions. There are various drawbacks common to both. There seem to be more advantages to Asperger's, but being sufficiently 'high-functioning' so 'you don't look autistic' is a major drawback in and of itself.



Dbz33
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19 May 2020, 12:55 am

Jon81 wrote:
Dbz33 wrote:
Are people with classic autism more impaired then those with Aspergers?
I have a diagnosis of classic autism.


Would you mind giving some details about your diagnosis? What age were you when you were diagnosed and what difficulties did you have as a toddler? Late talker? obliviousness?

I have two boys with classic autism and I am very much interested in hearing from all you classic autistic what the world is like from your point of view.

Speech delay until 4, as well as motor skills.
Learning disability.


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kraftiekortie
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19 May 2020, 6:10 am

Myself: no speech till age 5.

After age 5: Aspergian presentation, not “classically autistic” presentation.



Jon81
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19 May 2020, 7:42 am

starkid wrote:
Jon81 wrote:
I have two boys with classic autism and I am very much interested in hearing from all you classic autistic what the world is like from your point of view.

I think Ido in Autismland is a good book for this. Non-speaking teenager with classic autism.


That's just crazy. What an incredible feeling for everyone involved to be able to reach him and also for him being able to communicate in such a direct way.

It only makes me wonder even more if there really is such a thing as mental retardation or if there's just a problem with the learning. Something in the brain is not connecting or the connections are not leading to the places where they should. If I am woken up during sleep and get a direct question like -"where is the car key", my brain sometimes just can't recollect what is being said and I'm left looking like a question mark, but then it kind of uploads and I'm able to tell what's going on. If life is like that with a learning disability then I'm really sorry for you. Must be so frustrating to not be able gather information.

Regarding the spectrum and the levels. This is only what I've learned from my psychologist, also a close friend of Ivar Lövåås, which I've already mentioned in a different thread. He has come to the conclusion autism and asperger is not the same thing (Lövåås agrees on this). However, IQ and autism level is not a static thing and you're able to move on the spectrum as time goes by.

Just forwarding that reply.


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19 May 2020, 10:57 am

Archmage Arcane wrote:
I don't agree with the reclassification in DSM-5 and no therapist or neuropsych I've ever met does either.

I still consider Asperger's and classic autism as different conditions. There are various drawbacks common to both. There seem to be more advantages to Asperger's, but being sufficiently 'high-functioning' so 'you don't look autistic' is a major drawback in and of itself.

I don’t agree with the DSM but for different reasons then you. I think Aspergers is autism but a subtype. Having dealt with both cancer and Autism I understand any analogy between the two is flawed but stage 4 cancer and stage 1 cancer present in many ways as different conditions but they are still cancer. Same with tongue cancer and brain cancer. This is true of many conditions in life.

Where the DSM erred is making Aspergers a separate diagnosis not an Autism subtype diagnosis. Then they doubled down on the original error by making all Autism one diagnosis. The stated reason was that Aspergers had turned in such a broad category as to be meaningless. While there is an element of truth to this they did not fix the problem but made it worse by making everything just autism. If we should use the term Aspergers because of Hans Aspergers
controversial life is another question.

I hope subcategories come back and that they are based on strongest traits/impairments of the individual being diagnosed.


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Jon81
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19 May 2020, 1:31 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Myself: no speech till age 5.

After age 5: Aspergian presentation, not “classically autistic” presentation.


You were diagnosed as a kid with a condition that at the time was the same thing as being put away in a mental institution without any hope? Did they doctors and people around think the change was quite remarkable at 5?


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