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SabbraCadabra
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01 Mar 2022, 11:17 pm

Kerch wrote:
I've looked around online and I'm not the only person confused by this. People say there's multiple ways of fingering the same chord that sound somewhat different but the name remains the same. Which is nice and confusing if you don't know about it.

Oh yeah, there are TONS of different ways to play different chords. I mean look at any note, and you'll find that same note, in the same octave, all over the neck. It's not like a piano where it's only in one place, and then the octaves.
And I'm not even going to get into alternate tunings. That just adds another entire planet full of fingerings.
The way I play is, if I can find a fingering that's the easiest one to do, I usually stick with that.

Kerch wrote:
And I was talking about 320033, which apparently is just a common variation. The interwebs says G5 is something different.

Yeah, it's not super common, but I see it from time to time. It's a pinky workout, for sure.

The tab I was looking at called it "G5", Idunno. But whether you play a B on that string or a D, both notes are part of the G Major chord, so technically it doesn't make a difference.
It'll just sound a little different, because you'll have two Ds in your chord instead of two Bs.

Kerch wrote:
As for the second thing I meant that some strings aren't played, and that's the difference between what is the commonly listed chords and what I've just been told.

Oh, right. I've seen chords written out that way before, but I'm too sloppy of a layer to pay it any mind.
I'm not sure why you're supposed to omit the A string from the D chord anyway, or the E from the C and A chords, etc. because those notes are already in those chords.


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PhosphorusDecree
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05 Mar 2022, 7:00 pm

SabbraCadabra wrote:
Kerch wrote:
As for the second thing I meant that some strings aren't played, and that's the difference between what is the commonly listed chords and what I've just been told.

Oh, right. I've seen chords written out that way before, but I'm too sloppy of a layer to pay it any mind.
I'm not sure why you're supposed to omit the A string from the D chord anyway, or the E from the C and A chords, etc. because those notes are already in those chords.


It's so you get the root of the chord in the bassline - if you omit the low E string from the C chord, the lowest note is a C, for example. Helps create a strong bassline with just a single guitar. Of course, there are times when you want another note in the bass: C/g or C/e. I'm fond of the progression G D/f# Em.


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SabbraCadabra
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06 Mar 2022, 12:53 am

PhosphorusDecree wrote:
It's so you get the root of the chord in the bassline...

Yeah, I suppose that makes sense. You wouldn't notice it next to a bass guitar, though.

PhosphorusDecree wrote:
I'm fond of the progression G D/f# Em.

Same here. I learned Van Morrison's Cul De Sac a few months ago, and I'm pretty sure those are the chords he uses (the Internet disagrees, but they also think "eiderdown" is spelled "I look down"...).
I also really like what Paul Simon does in America, it's like C C/B Am Am/G F


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elbowgrease
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10 Mar 2022, 2:25 am

Kerch wrote:
SabbraCadabra wrote:
Kerch wrote:
For instance he wrote down the G so the B string is played also. His D leaves the A open and his C and Am leave the E open and all. I'm completely new to all this so I don't know what to make of it.

Are you talking about open chords, or barre chords (moveable shapes)? And standard EADGBE tuning?

G, where on the B string? First fret (320013) would be a Gadd11.
Third fret (320033) is G5 I think?

Regular D major chord always has the A open (000232).
Am always has E open (002210)
Same with C (032010), but sometimes I'll add the G on the E string (332010) to liven things up, or alternate the chord a little. Sometimes I do that to the Am as well, especially if I mix it with an Am7 (302010), it makes a good transition.

BTW, if they haven't shown you this already, when you play G open chord, fret the root note with your ring finger instead of your middle. It's so much easier that way, makes it super fast to switch between G and C, G and D, etc. and leaves your pointer finger open to add extra notes in.
So like ring finger is E string, 3rd fret; middle finger is A string 2nd fret; pinky finger is high E string, 3rd fret.


I've looked around online and I'm not the only person confused by this. People say there's multiple ways of fingering the same chord that sound somewhat different but the name remains the same. Which is nice and confusing if you don't know about it.

And I was talking about 320033, which apparently is just a common variation. The interwebs says G5 is something different.

As for the second thing I meant that some strings aren't played, and that's the difference between what is the commonly listed chords and what I've just been told. IDFK maybe I'm stumbling over the language here.

Your fingering advice just broke my little hand but I'll try practising it.


So, any chord is a moveable chord. (think shapes, at least until you start to grasp intervals, keys and how chords are formed from keys, etc.). Any of your open chords (chords using open strings) can be slid up and down the neck pretty much anywhere on the same strings and they will produce the same type of chord ( maj, min, etc). You might have to mute the open strings so the chord doesn't sound sour, and there are only so many major chords that will sound like they fit into key together, but you can move all of them all over.
The way to derive chords from keys is to use every other note of whatever key you're in starting from the root of whatever chord you want to play, you can think of each note of a key as a degree of a scale and apply a number to it. In natural diatonic scales/keys, there are seven notes. So C natural major is C D E F G A B C. So the notes of a C major chord from the C natural major scale would be C E G B D F A. As long as you're playing a C and an E and a G somewhere on the neck at the same time (or arpeggiated), you're playing a C major. If you happen to include a B in there, then you have a Cmaj7. It helps to focus on just the first three notes of a chord (C E G) at first. Getting into extensions gets weird (but fun).
Degrees, degrees can be relative to the chord or relative to the scale. If you start with the natural major scale and give each of those notes a number, those are the degrees. So, C is 1 D is 2, etc. There is a method that uses upper and lowercase roman numerals to denote the degrees (which is really useful). Uppercase is used for major chords, lowercase for minors so the C major scale would be: C I, D ii, E iii, F IV, G V, A vi, B vii. Maybe it's confusing at first, but it really helped me start to make sense of keys and chords, and I still use it all the time. It's handy because any major key will follow the same pattern, a ii chord is always going to be minor, a V chord is always going to be major, etc. So if you want to play a I, IV, V blues song (or a vi, ii, iii) in a key you don't know, you can write out the notes of that key and assign them roman numerals and you'll know what chords to play and what notes are in the chords.
So degrees relative to chords. to be a chord it needs to have at least three notes (if there are only two then it's an interval, or maybe a double stop). The first three notes of the chord are going to be a one a three and a five (because you play every other note of the scale to build chords). The distance between the one and the three will determine whether it is a major chord or a minor chord. In terms of shape on the fret board, when you're playing an open c or an open g, with a finger on the third fret of one string and the second fret of the next string, that's a major third, and the part of that chord that makes it sound major. You could make that shape anywhere on the lower four strings and have a major third. With either of those two open chords (G or C major), the first open string you hit if you strum away from you will be the fifth (the open D string in the G major chord, which is: G, B, D. The open G string in the C major chord, which is: C, E, G.). So you could take that shape and move it anywhere (until you get to the B string) and you will have a major chord, the lowest note of which is the root of the chord. You might also notice at this point that those two chords are exactly the same shape, just on different strings.
So those are major shapes. If you were to take either of those two shapes and lower the third by a half step, it wouldn't be a major third anymore, it would be a minor third (and would most likely become a minor chord). So you could take your open C chord and instead of fingering the second fret of the D string to produce an E (which is the major third of C), you could finger the first fret of the D string to get an E flat (which is the minor third of C). You could do the same thing with your open G chord and get a G minor instead of a G major. And slide it up or down the neck and make minor chords wherever. It's not the most convenient shape, though.
So, look at the A minor chord that you probably know. It would be the second fret of the D, the second fret of the G, and the first fret of the B strings. Those notes would be E, A, C, in that order. There are a number of things to consider with this one. The first is that those notes aren't in order, an A minor should be A, C, E. Well, it doesn't actually matter what order the notes are arranged in, necessarily, only that the notes are played together. It isn't always convenient to build chords in strict numerical or alphabetical order (you end up with giant, sprawled out chords that require six fingers spanning eighteen inches of fretboard or something). Sometimes they sound different with the notes arranged in a different order. Anyway, they're usually called voicings or inversions when notes get rearranged within a chord for whatever reason. Any chord that can be played as a 1, 3, 5 can be played as a 3, 5, 1 or (as is the case with this A minor chord) a 5, 1, 3. It's a minor shape that can be moved up and down those strings to make minor chords, but, it's also common to see it as part of a bar chord.
So, make that chord with your middle, ring, and pinky fingers, and then slide the shape up one fret and use your index finger to bar the neck at the first fret. Now you should have a B flat minor (if I'm seeing this correctly in my head right now). You don't need to fret the low E string (but you can if you want, that would be an F, which fits nicely in B or B flat). So that's a bar chord.
Now if you go back to the original A minor chord but include the open high E string, you would have E, A, C, E. So if you drop the lowest note you're fretting, and now just use the three highest strings, that's another way to play a minor chord. Anywhere up or down the three high strings.

I'm running out of energy now, and I can get stuck talking about music theory and the guitar for a long time (maybe because I'm an aspie and it's a primary special interest of mine?). Hopefully I wasn't too overwhelming or incomprehensible.
You might try to find a guitar grimoire. I don't remember which one I had, it had bits and pieces of the different variations of the guitar grimoire and made a lot of sense to me in the beginning. Honestly just figuring out how things are derived from the natural major scale(s) opened the instrument (and music theory) up to me, though. That and an insane amount of practice.
If you decide to stick with it get lessons, a good teacher can show you stuff in a short amount of time that it might take you years to figure out on your own.



PhosphorusDecree
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14 Mar 2022, 2:42 pm

^ Also, sliding open chords to different positions WITHOUT damping the open strings can result in all kinds of interesting modified chords that are heavily used by acoustic guitar players.


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Erewhon
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01 Aug 2022, 12:23 am

8)

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PhosphorusDecree
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01 Aug 2022, 7:24 am

Erewhon wrote:
8)

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.000 light tensions! Nice!


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01 Aug 2022, 11:29 pm

PhosphorusDecree wrote:

.000 light tensions! Nice!


The string is called the Miles-Davis-String :)

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SabbraCadabra
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02 Aug 2022, 12:21 pm

Miles Davis could certainly use new strings.


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