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funeralxempire
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15 Jun 2021, 10:39 pm

cyberdad wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Someone who has a lot of spats and even the minor ones escalate to dming people that they should kill themselves... makes me wonder how many people got messages like that. Even DJTJ doesn't deserve that (as a hypothetical example).


Curiously QAnon have been targeting her for some years
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/cu ... n-1143259/

It doesn't excuse her behaviour but I wonder if this isn't another Aruna Khilanani where Chrissy Teigan might have been sent over the edge by having to deal with right wing trolls.


That's interesting, I had always suspected/assumed it was the other way around, they fixated on her because she's outspoken against people they supported and has been for ages.


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15 Jun 2021, 11:18 pm

cyberdad wrote:
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But now it's seen as the cool thing to do, especially in the celebrity world. Why did that change? For example, I work in the independent film business from time to time and I worked recently on a film project where the director was advised to only hire actors who were homosexual to play homosexual parts, to remain politically correct..


If you work in the industry then how is this a surprise??

For example do you think a film project is set as a period piece in 17th century America or medieval Europe the movie producers would not be hiring many POC actors?

Why is that ok but hiring homosexual actors a problem when the script asks for a homosexual character??


Well it's with people of color you can usually tell without having to ask personal questions, where as I think with someone's sexual orientation for example, it's not appropriate to ask and you should just go with the actor who gives the best acting in the audition I find.



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16 Jun 2021, 1:58 am

funeralxempire wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Someone who has a lot of spats and even the minor ones escalate to dming people that they should kill themselves... makes me wonder how many people got messages like that. Even DJTJ doesn't deserve that (as a hypothetical example).


Curiously QAnon have been targeting her for some years
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/cu ... n-1143259/

It doesn't excuse her behaviour but I wonder if this isn't another Aruna Khilanani where Chrissy Teigan might have been sent over the edge by having to deal with right wing trolls.


That's interesting, I had always suspected/assumed it was the other way around, they fixated on her because she's outspoken against people they supported and has been for ages.


Yes. I think they baited her for some years, especially when she was pregnant and probably not in her right mind. Piers Morgan (another right wing scumbag) used that tactic against Meghan Markle, reserving his most ferocious vitriol for when she lost a baby and again when she was pregnant.

The rightwing have had more time over many centuries to practice the art of war compared to the left.



cyberdad
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16 Jun 2021, 2:00 am

ironpony wrote:
Well it's with people of color you can usually tell without having to ask personal questions, where as I think with someone's sexual orientation for example, it's not appropriate to ask and you should just go with the actor who gives the best acting in the audition I find.


I'm curious how many heterosexual male actors would be willing to do a love-scene with another man? even if they did it (for the money or role) would it be authentic?



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16 Jun 2021, 2:29 am

cyberdad wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Well it's with people of color you can usually tell without having to ask personal questions, where as I think with someone's sexual orientation for example, it's not appropriate to ask and you should just go with the actor who gives the best acting in the audition I find.


I'm curious how many heterosexual male actors would be willing to do a love-scene with another man? even if they did it (for the money or role) would it be authentic?


Oh well Heath Ledger did such a love scene for Brokeback Mountain even though he married one of his female co-starts from the movie at the time so I assume he was straight, and so many people praised his performance for example. So I didn't think it would be a problem but I still thought it was best to hire based on performance rather than personal beliefs.



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16 Jun 2021, 4:47 am

ironpony wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Well it's with people of color you can usually tell without having to ask personal questions, where as I think with someone's sexual orientation for example, it's not appropriate to ask and you should just go with the actor who gives the best acting in the audition I find.


I'm curious how many heterosexual male actors would be willing to do a love-scene with another man? even if they did it (for the money or role) would it be authentic?


Oh well Heath Ledger did such a love scene for Brokeback Mountain even though he married one of his female co-starts from the movie at the time so I assume he was straight, and so many people praised his performance for example. So I didn't think it would be a problem but I still thought it was best to hire based on performance rather than personal beliefs.


Heath Ledger was an exception actor and willing to take risks. I am not sure most other actors would. Can you imagine Jason Statham and the Dwayne the rock Johnson doing a love scene?

If you want authentic performance then a gay or bisexual actor would be preferable.



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16 Jun 2021, 11:09 am

Oh well I still don't feel it's professional of me to ask that of an actor. I feel if an actor wants a role, they will audition, we do the auditions and then see if I feel they are best for it. But I will go by the auditions and them wanting the role, rather than asking personal innapropriate questions like that.



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16 Jun 2021, 12:01 pm

cyberdad wrote:
If you want authentic performance then a gay or bisexual actor would be preferable.


It's not just that, it's also a matter of representation. If queer actors struggle to get roles compared to more heteronormative actors it's unfair to also deny queer actors access to queer roles.

This criticism wouldn't be raised in a John Waters movie, just like if ironpony cast an NT actor to play an autistic character he likely wouldn't face too much criticism because he has ASD and provides both representation as well as perspective as a director.


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16 Jun 2021, 12:18 pm

but there have been gay actors who have played straight roles though in the past. So I feel that if a gay actor can play a straight role, why can't a straight after play a gay role?

for one of my film projects, I hired an actor to play a straight character. I just gave him the roll and didn't ask what his sexual orientation was.

But I found out later the actor was gay because of someone he is was dating, from a conversation at the wrap party, where he brought it up. but I didn't think anything of it, and didn't think I made a wrong casting choice therefore. Was it a big deal?



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16 Jun 2021, 12:50 pm

ironpony wrote:
but there have been gay actors who have played straight roles though in the past. So I feel that if a gay actor can play a straight role, why can't a straight after play a gay role?

for one of my film projects, I hired an actor to play a straight character. I just gave him the roll and didn't ask what his sexual orientation was.

But I found out later the actor was gay because of someone he is was dating, from a conversation at the wrap party, where he brought it up. but I didn't think anything of it, and didn't think I made a wrong casting choice therefore. Was it a big deal?


Indeed, but often those were closeted gay actors and even when they weren't it's because there were practically no gay roles, certainly very few that weren't limited and stereotypical.

Again, I haven't said a straight person can't play a queer character (I've said the opposite in case you missed it earlier). What I've said is that the issue is that when queer actors struggle to get even these roles it contributes to erasure and a lack of representation and that's what angers people.

All of your arguments around that miss the point because they fail to address that element. At some point the approach you're describing will normalize and hopefully eliminate erasure and make that concern a non-issue, or at least less of an issue.


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16 Jun 2021, 1:36 pm

Oh well I hired the gay actor before for the one project, and I would have no problem hiring one for sure. I guess I just feel it's unprofessional of me to ask because it feels like I would be 'token-izing' an actor then if that makes sense?



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16 Jun 2021, 1:46 pm

ironpony wrote:
Oh well I hired the gay actor before for the one project, and I would have no problem hiring one for sure. I guess I just feel it's unprofessional of me to ask because it feels like I would be 'token-izing' an actor then if that makes sense?


That's not an unreasonable concern, it's probably not relevant for casting an actor who can pass as straight for a straight role.

A character who isn't might be more debatable, although that might vary too. If the character is in fantasy and their identity is difficult to relate to because of the context you might get a lot more leeway than something that's set in the real world.

Different people will get worked up over different shades of this issue but not all of them.


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16 Jun 2021, 3:09 pm

That makes sense. Actually for a script I want to make into a movie now, I am having an issue with political correctness on it. It's a revenge thriller, where the protagonist wants revenge on a group of criminals, and I was told to make the group of criminals all white, that way there are no misunderstandings about it being racist against non-white criminals, as it may be percieved as racist, if I have non-white criminal characters being revenged upon.

I didn't have a race for the criminal characters in mind, and was just to see who would be best to cast at casting, regardless of race.

Plus the more actors I include, the more I have to choose from. And there is this desire for a lot of diverse casting nowadays which is a good thing. But I am told to make the criminal characters all white to be safe. This means if I do that, I can only choose the white actors who audition, which limits my options as well.

So I have to either choose, to have all the criminal characters be white, to rule out any percieved misunderstood racism, or I can choose to do the diverse casting. But I cannot do both. Which one I should choose, in terms of political correctness?



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16 Jun 2021, 3:22 pm

ironpony wrote:
That makes sense. Actually for a script I want to make into a movie now, I am having an issue with political correctness on it. It's a revenge thriller, where the protagonist wants revenge on a group of criminals, and I was told to make the group of criminals all white, that way there are no misunderstandings about it being racist against non-white criminals, as it may be percieved as racist, if I have non-white criminal characters being revenged upon.

I didn't have a race for the criminal characters in mind, and was just to see who would be best to cast at casting, regardless of race.

Plus the more actors I include, the more I have to choose from. And there is this desire for a lot of diverse casting nowadays which is a good thing. But I am told to make the criminal characters all white to be safe. This means if I do that, I can only choose the white actors who audition, which limits my options as well.

So I have to either choose, to have all the criminal characters be white, to rule out any percieved misunderstood racism, or I can choose to do the diverse casting. But I cannot do both. Which one I should choose, in terms of political correctness?



If you do diverse casting you can make the criminals diverse. If the criminals are the only or primary source of non-white representation it will look bad, but if they're not it's a lot harder to make that argument.


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16 Jun 2021, 3:26 pm

This is what I thought as well but I was told that even if the non criminals are also diverse that people will still see it being racist if I make any one of the criminals non-white, because that's just how people are nowadays, or so I was advised.

but maybe it's because the actor I had in mind for the main character who gets revenge on them is a white actor so maybe that's why. I didn't have him in mind because he was white I just thought he was a good actor on previous projects to work with.



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16 Jun 2021, 4:37 pm

ironpony wrote:
but maybe it's because the actor I had in mind for the main character who gets revenge on them is a white actor so maybe that's why. I didn't have him in mind because he was white I just thought he was a good actor on previous projects to work with.


What was your opinion about Liam Neeson disclosing the time he was "looking for a black guy to kill", Did he get roles after that?