How can we convince the govnerment they cannot beat covid?

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uncommondenominator
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27 Mar 2021, 1:43 pm

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, I felt that the government was trying to go up against impossible odds. I guess it's also hard for me to believe that the government is doing this out of the desperation of their good heart. Normally they don't do something unless there is something in it for them, and what piece of the action are they getting as a result? They are not just doing this just to be Dudley Do-Right as you say, are they?

But if they are, they had a chance to not let covid into country way back and they chose not to listen and blew it. And if it's a result of people not listening, well if the government cannot control people's free will, then give up. So I think they should just accept the consequences and accept that the blew it and accept defeat, rather than desperately and incompetently trying to save face.

I also feel that the scientist are not frank enough about it. Isn't it a scientists job to tell everyone they are all screwed when it comes to not getting covid, and that we all might as well just accept it, if that's the truth?


There are soooo many assumptions tangled together in here, I'm not sure where to start...

Just cos you THINK that the government only acts when there's something to gain doesn't mean that's the truth. There are those who would love you to believe that, but that doesn't make it true. Being cynical and believing that everyone is purely self-interested doesn't mean that's actually how all of the world works.

Covid is not like a bomb. It's not something you can see coming, with predictable results, and once it's gone off there's nothing you can do. That is absolutely not how any of this works.

A scientist's job is to find the truth, whatever it is. This includes things like "we don't know yet". It is NOT a scientist's job to tell you "GAME OVER, MAN!" just cos YOU think it's "game over".

What exactly makes you think you have a better understanding of the covid pandemic than even a single professional scientist, let alone the combined mental might of an entity such as the World Health Organization? What makes you think the scientists don't know what they're doing? Cos the GOVERNMENT responded badly? Scientists are not the government. They cannot enforce or control. If I, as a mechanic, know that your car needs a new starter motor, and I go and order a starter motor, and they accidentally ship me a window regulator, does that make me a bad mechanic cos someone ELSE failed at THEIR end of the job? Science shared their insights, people didn't listen. The government encouraged them to not listen. Now we have a government that says to listen to the science.

Listen to the science.

These things take TIME. Problems take longer to fix than they do to create. Just cos you want it to happen fast doesn't mean it CAN happen fast, or that it ISN'T happening at all. A simple bachelors degree takes 4 years to complete. But you want an entire pandemic fixed in a year, after it was already mishandled for a year? C'mon, now...

The world is a far more complex place than that.



ironpony
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27 Mar 2021, 2:02 pm

I guess I am just being more pessimistic about it. I feel that scientists know that it's game over but they do not have the guts to say so. I don't have proof over the scientists no, but the scientists haven't seem to prove that we are beating it either, as things still seem the same with lockdowns and people still getting it. So I feel that the burden of proof is on them to put their money where their mouths are so to speak.



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27 Mar 2021, 2:03 pm

Well for one not sure it is 'the' government anymore seems there are two different governments now the sane one and the insane one...lol I find the blue side to be more sane than the red side personally. Anyways the reason cases keep rising is because places keep trying to just throw off the covid restrictions and be 'back to normal' the Presidential administration is doing their job as best they can....but not all the state governments are listening or people. Like did you see all that crap of people carelessly partying in Florida? They had to declare a state of emergency over it.

If anything we need to convince more of the government that covid is real and we need to take more precautions until this thing is dealt with and everyone has their vaccine. The reason the restrictions keep failing is because so many aren't actually following them...if followed this thing may have already been dealt with already, but thanks to the republikkkans encouraging anti-science and carelessness in regards to it there is likely to be another huge spike...like I wonder the effect that giant 'spring break' party in Florida might have as those people go home and spread it around to their families in different states.

The reason covid hasn't been defeated is because too many people are refusing to listen to science and Dr. fauci...not because there is nothing the government can do about it. Too many people think 'muh freedom' is more important than defeating covid.


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ironpony
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27 Mar 2021, 2:09 pm

Oh okay, I thought that the people who were not listening have accepted the fact that it's unbeatable, and the government should just accept it too, and stop trying to play hero to people who have accepted fate already. But maybe I am looking at it wrong?

But people are going to want to live life, to prevent themselves from going crazy, so can we really stop them really?



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27 Mar 2021, 2:16 pm

ironpony wrote:
I guess I am just being more pessimistic about it. I feel that scientists know that it's game over but they do not have the guts to say so. I don't have proof over the scientists no, but the scientists haven't seem to prove that we are beating it either, as things still seem the same with lockdowns and people still getting it. So I feel that the burden of proof is on them to put their money where their mouths are so to speak.


Scientists do not think Covid is game over...I have been contributing to The Union of Concerned Scientists here and there when I got 20 bucks to spare and send them supporting a good cause is worth it to me otherwise thet 20 bucks will probably just turn into a bottle of liquor or something else I don't actually need. And well there are a lot of scientists involved with that organization and I get the impression as dire as things are they still have hope. That said they do acknowledge if society as a whole doesn't start listening to them it could very well end up being game over.

But covid would be just the start...it is pretty horrific what they predict if society does not start doing a better job of acknowledging science. But there is hope it just requires embracing science and acknowledging that your stereotypical science nerds or whatever may end up doing more to save humanity than any military operation with all their fire power ever did.


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ironpony
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27 Mar 2021, 2:21 pm

Oh okay. It's just that when covid first started we started doing what they said and the government had even more strict lockdowns then, and things got worse, when they said that if we did what they would have said, it would have gotten better. So I thought the scientists, were proven wrong, more than once when it first started unless people were not listening then? But how could they not have been when lockdowns were too strict back then for people to even go anywhere?



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27 Mar 2021, 2:55 pm

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, I thought that the people who were not listening have accepted the fact that it's unbeatable, and the government should just accept it too, and stop trying to play hero to people who have accepted fate already. But maybe I am looking at it wrong?

But people are going to want to live life, to prevent themselves from going crazy, so can we really stop them really?


No, people are just losing morale about it I think...it's not unbeatable, but seems the likes of Fox News and such are doing there best to convince people that it is and that we should just submit to the virus...just treat as lucky if you don't get it, if you do get it sucks for you.

I mean there is the presidential administration and they are taking covid seriously...but with all the trump drama many republican politicians and leaders are just outright refusing to follow regulations set out by them. We should all still be wearing masks....well the Texas government decided No and yeah realistically Biden cannot do anything about it, like aside from sending in the military but I mean even trump never went as far as declaring martial law and that would be a very slippery slope so I can see President Bidens hesitation to do anything like that.

Of course people need to stay sane, but stopping wearing masks and not following covid restrictions is not a good way to do it.


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27 Mar 2021, 6:13 pm

Okay I guess I am just of that Fox news mentality, where I feel we have lost and just accept it, but maybe I am just being jaded by it all. It's just I want to get back to work and feel if we all accept it, then we can do that, and jobs are important too.



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28 Mar 2021, 2:45 pm

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, I thought that the people who were not listening have accepted the fact that it's unbeatable, and the government should just accept it too, and stop trying to play hero to people who have accepted fate already. But maybe I am looking at it wrong?

But people are going to want to live life, to prevent themselves from going crazy, so can we really stop them really?


Yeah, totally not what's going on. That just sounds like you ASSUMING that's why people were doing it, since it corresponds with what YOU already believe in the first place.

They haven't "accepted the fact that it's here to stay", they never took it seriously to begin with, thought it wasn't real, or if it was, wasn't a big deal and would be gone soon by itself. That's the opposite of thinking it's here to stay. Thinking it's already over, if it was even here to begin with. Some people still think it's a hoax.

Besides, even if people did think that, they're not scientists. People think dumb wrong stuff all the time, without the slightest clue that it's dumb or wrong. There is no magical higher power that prevents people from saying and believing things which are not true.

Life is hard. Get used to it. Sometimes we have to do things we don't like for reasons bigger than out own petty creature comforts. If having to wear a mask and socially distance are your biggest problems in life, I daresay you have a pretty comfortable life. If your concerns are things like income, business and the economy, there's other ways to remedy that without the need to "accept covid is here to stay". The government is doing some of those things now. Things got bad cos for some reason, prior to january of this year, the american government wasn't doing much at all to try to help things. Seemed like they were mostly acting like covid wasn't real and would go away in it's own. Many states were prevented from taking action. Funny how things don't get better when you do NOTHING to prevent them from getting worse.



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28 Mar 2021, 4:34 pm

Oh okay, and that is why I felt like we should all just accept that we lost, because we didn't take it seriously in the first place. But now we are trying to win when we already lost, and are in complete denial in accepting loosing and being sore loosers about it.

We accept that we have other diseases that we couldn't beat such as the flu, and other diseases, etc. So why can't we accept this one. What makes covid the one we will not accept we lost too compared to others? You know some people refuse to believe that Trump lost the election so they stormed the capital building and had bombs...

The government is like those people times hundred when it comeso to refusing to believe they have lost to covid.



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28 Mar 2021, 6:01 pm

Governments CAN beat covid, as shown in Vietnam whose handling of the pandemic was exemplary. They went hard into a serious lockdown and provided for the citizens in the meantime. After a while the virus was under control, even after another wave that was also beaten. It isn't that the government can't beat covid, it's that they chose not to.



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28 Mar 2021, 7:05 pm

Just letting the virus go wild will create a bunch of different mutated strains, that it might become incredibly harder to get a handle of. It is the people who keep pushing the idea that it is a fruitless fight that have made Covid as prevalent as it has been, if people just listened instead of saying lockdowns were pointless, we might not even have much of active cases. I say this from a country that had states that were covid free, with the ones that had people not taking it seriously led to times where it did break into other states.


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28 Mar 2021, 7:15 pm

But people are still going out anyway. Even if they do not go to social gatherings, they are still going to work and serving the public in a lot of jobs, so how does that help though, if they are still going to do that, since that will spread the virus just as much, won't it?



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28 Mar 2021, 7:33 pm

ironpony wrote:
But people are still going out anyway. Even if they do not go to social gatherings, they are still going to work and serving the public in a lot of jobs, so how does that help though, if they are still going to do that, since that will spread the virus just as much, won't it?


Wearing masks and social distancing helps some, along with tracking where outbreaks are and people isolate themselves if they think they might have it. These things can get under control, while people who keep saying there is no point are the ones responsible for it still in circulation, along with the people that have died and the long lasting side effects such as lung damage.

I have heard that my state is having a three day lockdown because people still can't do what they are told in bringing it to this state, and the lockdown is the only thing that will work.


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28 Mar 2021, 7:46 pm

Oh okay. I thought the only way to keep diseases from spreading was hasmat suits or something along those lines, when these massk are made of breathable materials, breathable, meaning the disease can just go right through it or so I thought. Plus social distancing I didn't think helped much. Like if you go through a drivethrough and a person hands you your food, well that food was closer to that person than you, etc.

I feel like the masks and social distancing are people telling themelves it will help where as scientists probably truly know that hasmat suits are the only effective way, or so it crossed my mind that they may think that.



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28 Mar 2021, 8:05 pm

The virus itself might be small enough to fit through the holes, but it actually needs to hitch a ride on water droplets, which the mask stops. This is basic stuff, and is honestly surprising that this far on people don't understand this basic science and think they know better than the scientists.


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