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everybody_i5
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29 Mar 2021, 9:49 am

Neurotypical people tend to be extremely intellectually uncurious, they cannot retain details, and they tend to think generally and symbolically. They cannot be talked out of their feelings or their first impressions. When speaking to them, the tone of voice and word order matters more than details or facts. If a neurotypical person feels like they already know the answer to something, they will not look it up on the phones to double-check. If I say something that they do not understand, rather than asking for clarification, they will instead assume the absolute worst (based on their own understanding of the world) and then spread a rumor. They don't use their words to communicate. Instead, they expect me to read their minds.

People on the autism spectrum tend to lack empathy and ignore my feelings, preferences, and boundaries. They are intellectually curious only about things that interest them. They do not have two-way conversations. Though they will often use words, gestures, and pictures to communicate, many of them are terrible at it. Others have a limited ability to communicate well, and we end up missing each other or misunderstanding.

If I could have the entire human population gathered together and jettisoned into the sun, while retaining all of their collective resources, this wouldn't be a problem. As it is though, I need to be able to interact with people in order to have a job and earn money. Friends and social support networks are also useful or necessary for many other reasons. I cannot maintain my friendships or relationships, and to be honest, I am barely motivated to maintain them. Why would I want a relationship with someone I can't communicate with, and who doesn't give a s**t what I have to say?

I don't really know what I'm asking here. I came on this site to try to reach out to people, but to be honest I don't really know why. I get lonely just like everyone, but when I socially interact, I find myself hating the experience.



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29 Mar 2021, 10:39 am

You seem to have a lot of prejudicial ideas regarding people -- NTs and NDs alike.


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everybody_i5
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29 Mar 2021, 10:52 am

Fnord wrote:
You seem to have a lot of prejudicial ideas regarding people -- NTs and NDs alike.


These ideas are based on my experiences and on diagnostic criteria I have read.



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29 Mar 2021, 10:55 am

everybody_i5 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
You seem to have a lot of prejudicial ideas regarding people -- NTs and NDs alike.
These ideas are based on my experiences and on diagnostic criteria I have read.
So ... subjective opinions, then.


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29 Mar 2021, 11:06 am

It's a pretty skewed way of looking at people. I suppose if you don't hear what you want to hear on WP you put it down to people "lacking empathy", which isn't the way empathy works.
And you think NTs are idiots that don't care about anything except mindless gossip.

Autistics are not unempathetic and NTs are not dimwits.


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everybody_i5
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29 Mar 2021, 11:09 am

Joe90 wrote:
Autistics are not unempathetic and NTs are not dimwits.


So far, no one here has shown me any empathy. In fact, it seems like you're trying really hard to confirm the beliefs you say you're trying to disprove.



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29 Mar 2021, 11:15 am

everybody_i5 wrote:
Neurotypical people tend to be ...

everybody_i5 wrote:
People on the autism spectrum tend to ...

Fortunately these are not true of everyone in the named categories.

everybody_i5 wrote:
As it is though, I need to be able to interact with people in order to have a job and earn money. Friends and social support networks are also useful or necessary for many other reasons. I cannot maintain my friendships or relationships, and to be honest, I am barely motivated to maintain them. Why would I want a relationship with someone I can't communicate with, and who doesn't give a s**t what I have to say?

I don't really know what I'm asking here. I came on this site to try to reach out to people, but to be honest I don't really know why. I get lonely just like everyone, but when I socially interact, I find myself hating the experience.

Try to find -- or, if necessary, help create -- a group of autistic people who are committed to trying to get along with other autistic people. Yes we do exist. Getting along with each other requires a commitment to learning what I call autistic-friendly social skills -- which overlap with, but are a bit different from and less arduous than, the kinds of "social skills" that are needed in order to blend with NT's.

If enough of us get together in enough of the different kinds of groups I describe in Longterm visions for the autistic community, and if enough of our groups can get the right kind help from those NT's who care about us (e.g. family members of some of us), then we can have much better lives, e.g. there will be many more autistic-friendly workplaces.

Are you currently attending any kind of local support group or social group for autistic people?


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29 Mar 2021, 11:16 am

everybody_i5 wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
Autistics are not unempathetic and NTs are not dimwits.
So far, no one here has shown me any empathy. In fact, it seems like you're trying really hard to confirm the beliefs you say you're trying to disprove.
You post attacks AND want empathy?

That is not how it works.


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29 Mar 2021, 11:18 am

everybody_i5 wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
Autistics are not unempathetic and NTs are not dimwits.


So far, no one here has shown me any empathy. In fact, it seems like you're trying really hard to confirm the beliefs you say you're trying to disprove.


Kafkatrap.
So if we agree with you, it would be empathy? Everybody has their own definition of empathy, I'd like to know what your's is.


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Mona Pereth
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29 Mar 2021, 11:23 am

everybody_i5 wrote:
So far, no one here has shown me any empathy. In fact, it seems like you're trying really hard to confirm the beliefs you say you're trying to disprove.

The "empathy" question is complicated and a sore point for many of us. More about that later.

For now I'll just say that I can certainly relate to your frustration! Many of us have had experiences similar to yours.

Yet, at the same time, most of us really dislike over-generalizations about other people, and the wording of your post pushed that button for many of us. I hope you can understand why.


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29 Mar 2021, 11:27 am

Joe90 wrote:
everybody_i5 wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
Autistics are not unempathetic and NTs are not dimwits.
So far, no one here has shown me any empathy. In fact, it seems like you're trying really hard to confirm the beliefs you say you're trying to disprove.
Kafkatrap.  So if we agree with you, it would be empathy? Everybody has their own definition of empathy, I'd like to know what yours is.
Merriam-Webster: "Empathy is the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner."

Psychology Today: "Empathy is the ability to recognize, understand, and share the thoughts and feelings of another person, animal, or fictional character."

Wikipedia: "Empathy is the capacity to understand or feel what another person is experiencing from within their frame of reference, that is, the capacity to place oneself in another's position."

None of these definitions claim that empathy has anything to do with blindly agreeing with what someone else says.


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Mona Pereth
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29 Mar 2021, 11:31 am

Joe90 wrote:
So if we agree with you, it would be empathy? Everybody has their own definition of empathy, I'd like to know what your's is.

No need to agree with everybody_i5's over-generalizations. But, at the same time, most of us have had the same kinds of frustrating experiences that evidently gave rise to everybody_i5's generalizations. We've all encountered plenty of dimwit NT's who do behave as everybody_i5 described, and those of us who know lots of autistic people have encountered plenty of inconsiderate ones too. So why can't we all show some sympathy for everybody_i5's frustrations, even while also rejecting his over-generalizations? I think what everybody_i5 is complaining about is the failure of most of us to show any sympathy for his obvious frustrations.


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Last edited by Mona Pereth on 29 Mar 2021, 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

everybody_i5
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29 Mar 2021, 11:33 am

Fnord wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
everybody_i5 wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
Autistics are not unempathetic and NTs are not dimwits.
So far, no one here has shown me any empathy. In fact, it seems like you're trying really hard to confirm the beliefs you say you're trying to disprove.
Kafkatrap.  So if we agree with you, it would be empathy? Everybody has their own definition of empathy, I'd like to know what yours is.
Merriam-Webster: "Empathy is the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner."

Psychology Today: "Empathy is the ability to recognize, understand, and share the thoughts and feelings of another person, animal, or fictional character."

Wikipedia: "Empathy is the capacity to understand or feel what another person is experiencing from within their frame of reference, that is, the capacity to place oneself in another's position."

None of these definitions claim that empathy has anything to do with blindly agreeing with what someone else says.


Do you know what empathy also isn't? Empathy isn't jumping down someone's throat, micromanaging them, or criticizing them unhelpfully and for the purpose of admonishment. That isn't empathy. You're not saying these things to help me. You're saying these things to establish dominance and to puff up your chest.

So...socializing ISN'T worth it? Is that what you're trying to tell me?



everybody_i5
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29 Mar 2021, 11:34 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
So if we agree with you, it would be empathy? Everybody has their own definition of empathy, I'd like to know what your's is.

I think what everybody_i5 is complaining about is the failure of most of us to show any sympathy for his obvious frustrations.


Thank you for being the only person on this forum not to immediately jump down my throat. Not really a great advertisement for social interaction to be honest.



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29 Mar 2021, 11:47 am

Quote:
Do you know what empathy also isn't? Empathy isn't jumping down someone's throat, micromanaging them, or criticizing them unhelpfully and for the purpose of admonishment. That isn't empathy. You're not saying these things to help me. You're saying these things to establish dominance and to puff up your chest.

So...socializing ISN'T worth it? Is that what you're trying to tell me?


Ah, but if an NT responded how I did, would you still say they lack empathy?


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29 Mar 2021, 11:49 am

everybody_i5 wrote:
Do you know what empathy also isn't? Empathy isn't jumping down someone's throat, micromanaging them, or criticizing them unhelpfully and for the purpose of admonishment. That isn't empathy. You're not saying these things to help me. You're saying these things to establish dominance and to puff up your chest. So...socializing ISN'T worth it? Is that what you're trying to tell me?
No one jumped down your throat, whether figuratively or literally.  You made some sweeping generalizations and incorrect statements.  I pointed them out.  You became hostile.

People will disagree with you.  People will correct you.  People will say things to you that you do not like.

I do not seek dominance, only the truth.  I do not need to "puff out my chest".

As for your last two questions, I believe that socializing IS worth it, even when other people may feel angry defensive.


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