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salad
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29 Apr 2021, 5:27 pm

cberg wrote:
The mods are gravely complicit in allowing these disgusting threads to carry on as if it's "just politics".

FFS find your backbones & put at least a word in for the people whose lives are being marginalized. You claim to support people with ASD but I just see you supporting white people with ASD. It's confirmation bias, you let righties say all the nasty s**t they want because it's their "platform".

Whereas calling them out on it is a personal attack. You're basically moderating an imaginary little snow globe. Put one in for the people who don't want to see racial bias on your weak little site.


I mean, I'm Palestinian and come from one of the most hated groups in America, Muslim Palestinians, yet I see nothing wrong with this thread. Mr Reynholm, while I disagree with a lot of what he says and his sources like Breitbart are crazy, nonetheless there is nothing about his positions or what he's said that would warrant actions from the mods


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cberg
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29 Apr 2021, 5:35 pm

:shrug: Denying the causes of violence = asking for more violence. We just saw the inventors of "Q Anon" "set the record straight" about why so many diverse people are dying here. It's revisionist history 101 & you're looking at a racially motivated fascist OP.

Seeing 50-something white dudes insisting they're not part of the problem in this way is just ridiculous. They invented this type of problem & perpetuate it with nothing more than bluster & stereotypes.

America is beyond racist, America is a hateful place towards differences of any kind lately.


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29 Apr 2021, 5:47 pm

TheRobotLives wrote:

Trump: 'I'm the least racist person anybody is going to meet'
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-42830165


A very contradictive statement from a man who had no clue what he did as president.


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salad
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29 Apr 2021, 6:02 pm

cberg wrote:
:shrug: Denying the causes of violence = asking for more violence. We just saw the inventors of "Q Anon" "set the record straight" about why so many diverse people are dying here. It's revisionist history 101 & you're looking at a racially motivated fascist OP.

Seeing 50-something white dudes insisting they're not part of the problem in this way is just ridiculous. They invented this type of problem & perpetuate it with nothing more than bluster & stereotypes.

America is beyond racist, America is a hateful place towards differences of any kind lately.


America isn't beyond racist as you think, it's just that the racists in America while being a minority are very militarized, organized, many have infiltrated the police and government, they all own guns, and many are well funded. By actual proportion of the population America is no where near as racist as India, Serbia, Israel, China and Japan.

However unfortunately our racists arent just some passive fringe elements but an active and aggressive force. Even our former president, Donald Trump, had active supporters from the far right and courted the blessings of active white supremacists.


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funeralxempire
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29 Apr 2021, 6:12 pm

cberg wrote:
The mods are gravely complicit in allowing these disgusting threads to carry on as if it's "just politics".

FFS find your backbones & put at least a word in for the people whose lives are being marginalized. You claim to support people with ASD but I just see you supporting white people with ASD. It's confirmation bias, you let righties say all the nasty s**t they want because it's their "platform".

Whereas calling them out on it is a personal attack. You're basically moderating an imaginary little snow globe. Put one in for the people who don't want to see racial bias on your weak little site.


I'm not certain that a support site should actively strive to drive-out people who hold those views but I do believe it's perfectly fine to both call out bigotry and for moderators to intervene if need be.

A year ago a poster tried to use me calling out their racism to insist I was being insulting. Alex came in and clarified explicitly that calling a poster who is consistently posting racist opinions racist was acceptable and not actionable. They'll scream that it's a personal attack but it's protected speech and not actionable. So no, it actually isn't a personal attack in any official context.

I don't particularly blame the mods for allowing the threads to go on because often the OP gets their argument refuted three or four different ways and so they serve to demonstrate that the community rejects the position. Especially because driving out posters who cling to different ideologies that many of us find disagreeable is likely to push them further into those ideologies, not away from them.

I don't think stifling discussion would be positive because it would end up shutting down worthwhile conversations debunking the soft racism that often goes unquestioned in some circles. We can't have a discussion of how ingrained racism is into western society if we can't shoot down the idea that it's not a problem. Letting one of the posters who actually believes OP's premise bring that line of reasoning up for scrutiny without anyone claiming oh, well no one really believes that.

It's not a strawman once someone seriously argues it. 8)


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Last edited by funeralxempire on 29 Apr 2021, 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

funeralxempire
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29 Apr 2021, 6:22 pm

salad wrote:
cberg wrote:
:shrug: Denying the causes of violence = asking for more violence. We just saw the inventors of "Q Anon" "set the record straight" about why so many diverse people are dying here. It's revisionist history 101 & you're looking at a racially motivated fascist OP.

Seeing 50-something white dudes insisting they're not part of the problem in this way is just ridiculous. They invented this type of problem & perpetuate it with nothing more than bluster & stereotypes.

America is beyond racist, America is a hateful place towards differences of any kind lately.


America isn't beyond racist as you think, it's just that the racists in America while being a minority are very militarized, organized, many have infiltrated the police and government, they all own guns, and many are well funded. By actual proportion of the population America is no where near as racist as India, Serbia, Israel, China and Japan.

However unfortunately our racists arent just some passive fringe elements but an active and aggressive force. Even our former president, Donald Trump, had active supporters from the far right and courted the blessings of active white supremacists.


Racists are a spectrum. The worst of them are as you describe, but they're enabled by people who share many of the same views but not the underlying willingness to normalize violence. White supremacists aren't just the ones who are willing to do the violence themselves, they're also the people who just constantly pretend like it's always excusable and peddle nonsense to distract away from the incident. Further out from the core you have people who don't actively push those opinions but insist those opinions should be heard and defended and that they shouldn't be called racist.

Tucker Carlson ain't gonna kill anyone, he's not bloodthirsty. That doesn't mean he doesn't work to downplay the acts of bloodthirsty people and spread talking points that benefit those people and their movement.

My buddy Daniel from one of my toy car forums isn't a monster and I don't believe he's bloodthirsty but when he peddles talking points from Tucker or Lauren Southern or whoever he's spreading their influence even if he's also friendly with the black couple who live next door in their retirement community. He can be friendly to his neighbours and be part of the problem of white supremacy, apparently racism isn't as binary as many people try to reduce it down to.


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29 Apr 2021, 6:59 pm

The vast majority of racism in the West is hidden, now. It's putting certain CVs in the bin without telling anyone, refusing permissions, licences or loans to people with certain surnames without saying why, making assumptions, being unhelpful (without mentioning skin colour), not offering help or advice as one would to a different person, not listening, not caring.

Unfortunately that means it's harder to spot and easier to ignore. Which is, of course, the whole idea.

What that also means is, when you DO see Police abusing their power (for example) or Klansmen out on the streets, or politicians spitting bile, they're just the tip of the iceberg. The 5% that are too arrogant or too stupid to be sneaky about it.



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29 Apr 2021, 7:08 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

Tucker Carlson ain't gonna kill anyone, he's not bloodthirsty. That doesn't mean he doesn't work to downplay the acts of bloodthirsty people and spread talking points that benefit those people and their movement.

My buddy Daniel from one of my toy car forums isn't a monster and I don't believe he's bloodthirsty but when he peddles talking points from Tucker or Lauren Southern or whoever he's spreading their influence even if he's also friendly with the black couple who live next door in their retirement community. He can be friendly to his neighbours and be part of the problem of white supremacy, apparently racism isn't as binary as many people try to reduce it down to.


I second this, I ostensibly have this friend also & he's actually a great guy with a lot of worthwhile things to say otherwise. All I have to do to steer our conversations back on course is to point out when he's parroting someone else's batshit generalizations & remind him we're only talking about people in the first place.


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29 Apr 2021, 7:20 pm

Sorry, got to this thread late.
Ignoring a problem to the point of denying it even exists won't make it go away. On the contrary, racists will be encouraged to spread their hate.


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29 Apr 2021, 7:28 pm

cberg wrote:
The mods are gravely complicit in allowing these disgusting threads to carry on as if it's "just politics".

FFS find your backbones & put at least a word in for the people whose lives are being marginalized. You claim to support people with ASD but I just see you supporting white people with ASD. It's confirmation bias, you let righties say all the nasty s**t they want because it's their "platform".

Whereas calling them out on it is a personal attack. You're basically moderating an imaginary little snow globe. Put one in for the people who don't want to see racial bias on your weak little site.


Shutting down discourse is not the solution. I'm not sure what exactly you find disgusting about the subject but you are welcome to disagree and your view will be respected. I am sorry you consider yourself marginalized but it isn't others who are the greatest influence in your life but you yourself. Don't let others get in your head and convince you that you are helpless. You can do whatever you want to in life but you have believe you can. Its not about what color, religion, sex, height, weight, ect you may be.
Creating monsters that prohibit you from your fullest potential in life will only hurt you. You have to free your mind from the prison that the popular culture has created.
Being a person of color does not make one helpless. And it may come as a surprise white people don't secretly hate people of color. I have known many successful, educated and even affluent black and Latinos. Some even close friends. What I have never met is a successful person of any color who has considered themselves a victim. The chains are in the mind.
I have no animus toward you, I just believe that your worldview (from what I read in your comment) is such that it is keeping you in a state of continual victim hood
I wish you the best.



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29 Apr 2021, 7:30 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Sorry, got to this thread late.
Ignoring a problem to the point of denying it even exists won't make it go away. On the contrary, racists will be encouraged to spread their hate.

Yes Racism does exist. But no the United States is not a racist country.
There is a great deal of nuance that you are missing.



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29 Apr 2021, 7:32 pm

To be clear, I never said anyone should lock your thread, I only said to check yourself. This is BS more than it is discourse, titularly.


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29 Apr 2021, 7:33 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
cberg wrote:
The mods are gravely complicit in allowing these disgusting threads to carry on as if it's "just politics".

FFS find your backbones & put at least a word in for the people whose lives are being marginalized. You claim to support people with ASD but I just see you supporting white people with ASD. It's confirmation bias, you let righties say all the nasty s**t they want because it's their "platform".

Whereas calling them out on it is a personal attack. You're basically moderating an imaginary little snow globe. Put one in for the people who don't want to see racial bias on your weak little site.


Shutting down discourse is not the solution. I'm not sure what exactly you find disgusting about the subject but you are welcome to disagree and your view will be respected. I am sorry you consider yourself marginalized but it isn't others who are the greatest influence in your life but you yourself. Don't let others get in your head and convince you that you are helpless. You can do whatever you want to in life but you have believe you can. Its not about what color, religion, sex, height, weight, ect you may be.
Creating monsters that prohibit you from your fullest potential in life will only hurt you. You have to free your mind from the prison that the popular culture has created.
Being a person of color does not make one helpless. And it may come as a surprise white people don't secretly hate people of color. I have known many successful, educated and even affluent black and Latinos. Some even close friends. What I have never met is a successful person of any color who has considered themselves a victim. The chains are in the mind.
I have no animus toward you, I just believe that your worldview (from what I read in your comment) is such that it is keeping you in a state of continual victim hood
I wish you the best.


Marginalized? I'm a white guy! I'm simply making an effort not to be a dick.


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-Gem Tos :mrgreen:


funeralxempire
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29 Apr 2021, 7:34 pm

cberg wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:

Tucker Carlson ain't gonna kill anyone, he's not bloodthirsty. That doesn't mean he doesn't work to downplay the acts of bloodthirsty people and spread talking points that benefit those people and their movement.

My buddy Daniel from one of my toy car forums isn't a monster and I don't believe he's bloodthirsty but when he peddles talking points from Tucker or Lauren Southern or whoever he's spreading their influence even if he's also friendly with the black couple who live next door in their retirement community. He can be friendly to his neighbours and be part of the problem of white supremacy, apparently racism isn't as binary as many people try to reduce it down to.


I second this, I ostensibly have this friend also & he's actually a great guy with a lot of worthwhile things to say otherwise. All I have to do to steer our conversations back on course is to point out when he's parroting someone else's batshit generalizations & remind him we're only talking about people in the first place.



That's why I really get uncomfortable with the notion of actively excluding members who occasionally sound racist or at least deeply insensitive on those matters. I don't think anyone can accuse me of having excessive tolerance for those views but at the end of the day I'm sure we all know people that if our first big interaction with them was them posting on here in a thread related to racism we'd think they're terrible but also know that they're more than just those views.

I'd rather have racist posters occasionally ragequit because they're frustrated that their opinions get torn to shreds than have them get banned because as a group we refuse to tolerate their mere presence. I'd hate the idea of a parallel WhiteWrongPlanet coming into existence because think of what a toxic s**thole it would become, ideologically speaking. Keeping people grounded within some sort of mainstream helps reduce the likelihood of them falling down an extremist rabbit hole.


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salad
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29 Apr 2021, 7:37 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
cberg wrote:
The mods are gravely complicit in allowing these disgusting threads to carry on as if it's "just politics".

FFS find your backbones & put at least a word in for the people whose lives are being marginalized. You claim to support people with ASD but I just see you supporting white people with ASD. It's confirmation bias, you let righties say all the nasty s**t they want because it's their "platform".

Whereas calling them out on it is a personal attack. You're basically moderating an imaginary little snow globe. Put one in for the people who don't want to see racial bias on your weak little site.


Shutting down discourse is not the solution. I'm not sure what exactly you find disgusting about the subject but you are welcome to disagree and your view will be respected. I am sorry you consider yourself marginalized but it isn't others who are the greatest influence in your life but you yourself. Don't let others get in your head and convince you that you are helpless. You can do whatever you want to in life but you have believe you can. Its not about what color, religion, sex, height, weight, ect you may be.
Creating monsters that prohibit you from your fullest potential in life will only hurt you. You have to free your mind from the prison that the popular culture has created.
Being a person of color does not make one helpless. And it may come as a surprise white people don't secretly hate people of color. I have known many successful, educated and even affluent black and Latinos. Some even close friends. What I have never met is a successful person of any color who has considered themselves a victim. The chains are in the mind.
I have no animus toward you, I just believe that your worldview (from what I read in your comment) is such that it is keeping you in a state of continual victim hood
I wish you the best.


There is certainly truth to your idea that a strong and determined mindset with a goal focus and grit can make miracles happen and is the single best predictor of success over other variables, including race, sex and background. Navy SEAL David Goggins set world records in pull ups, ran hundreds of 100 mile ultramarathons and triathlons, completed 3 hell weeks in the Navy SEAL, completed 1st in his class in Army Ranger school, as well as being one of the most successful and motivational human beings of all time, all while starting out as a decrepitly poor, abused and ADD and PTSD ridden obese black man who grew up being called the N word his whole life, having the KKK threaten him, being abused and tortured by his father, as well living in a $7 a month apartment. His story is actually really inspirational and reading his book was the greatest experience in my life:

https://www.amazon.com/Cant-Hurt-Me-Mas ... 1544512287

Granted while David Goggins did show that the power of a calloused and strong mind trumps all else, that doesn't invalidate the negative impediments and detriments that racism, sexism and other isms have on curtailing someone from doing better in life; a strong mind can definitely overcome such obstacles, but that still doesn't negate the existence of the obstacles in the 1st place.


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funeralxempire
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29 Apr 2021, 7:37 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Sorry, got to this thread late.
Ignoring a problem to the point of denying it even exists won't make it go away. On the contrary, racists will be encouraged to spread their hate.

Yes Racism does exist. But no the United States is not a racist country.
There is a great deal of nuance that you are missing.


How deep and how broad would racism have to be before you were willing to say the United States is a racist country?

Was the US a racist country in WWII when black soldiers were fighting overseas to secure rights for foreigners they knew they would be denied back home?


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