Page 5 of 19 [ 291 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 ... 19  Next

cberg
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Dec 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,183
Location: A swiftly tilting planet

29 Apr 2021, 7:39 pm

There's a difference between actively excluding OP (we're not) & deleting toxic nonsense that would put off ASD people from different backgrounds. I think inclusion on this site has gone down the tubes as a result of callousness like this & I'm amazed so many people manage to put up with this, FxE included.


_________________
"Standing on a well-chilled cinder, we see the fading of the suns, and try to recall the vanished brilliance of the origin of the worlds."
-Georges Lemaitre
"I fly through hyperspace, in my green computer interface"
-Gem Tos :mrgreen:


salad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Jul 2011
Age: 25
Gender: Male
Posts: 996

29 Apr 2021, 7:45 pm

cberg wrote:
There's a difference between actively excluding OP (we're not) & deleting toxic nonsense that would put off ASD people from different backgrounds. I think inclusion on this site has gone down the tubes as a result of callousness like this & I'm amazed so many people manage to put up with this, FxE included.


Trust me when I say as a minority myself who was around this forum 10 years when this forum was ACTUALLY racist, what you're reading here is perfectly tame and isn't even offensive. Trust me, the forums today are no where near as racist as they were 10 years, not even close.

If you want to know how racist this forum used to be, know that the following are a subset of the things I used to hear COMMONLY on the PPR section 5-10 years ago:

"Slavery was a great thing for blacks because now modern blacks are living in America instead of Africa" (spoken by a certain Trump supporter who I will not name lest I get banned)

"Arabs are all bloodthirsty savages" (spoken by a certain female member)

"We need to shoot and kill the savage Iraqis" (Spoken by a racist Brit I would gladly bust a knuckle in his face if I could)

"Be careful your Muslim friends don't give you a vest and detonate you LMAO" (spoken by half this forum when a certain member converted to Islam 10 years ago)

"Arabs are born to hate Jews, its in their blood" (spoken by the same female above)

"The shooting of Turks in Germany was justified" (spoken by a certain bigoted German on this forum I hope gets banned)

and so many wonderful things. trust me WP in 2021 is a PC center compared to how it used to be


_________________
"One often meets his destiny on the road he takes to avoid it."

Master Oogway


Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 42,614
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

29 Apr 2021, 7:47 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Sorry, got to this thread late.
Ignoring a problem to the point of denying it even exists won't make it go away. On the contrary, racists will be encouraged to spread their hate.

Yes Racism does exist. But no the United States is not a racist country.
There is a great deal of nuance that you are missing.


While a great many white Americans aren't racist, far too many in positions of authority - whether they be police, business owners, politicians, etc., - still are, and use the power they have to keep non-white Americans from enjoying the rights of privileges they should be guaranteed. The fact that such racist persons have power over American institutions unfortunately means America does practice racism.
Not every white South African was a racist, but their country still was racist. Same thing.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Mr Reynholm
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2019
Age: 54
Gender: Male
Posts: 737
Location: Tulsa, OK

29 Apr 2021, 8:54 pm

Fnord wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
So to have any disagreement with any person of color reduces one to a racist? I have to agree with everything AOC or any other non-white person says?
It is reasonable to assume that disagreeing with a POC does not prove racist intent.  However, considering the individual making these statements has demonstrated racist intent on numerous other occasions, it is also reasonable to assume that racist intent was behind the specific statements listed above.

How?



funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,893
Location: I'm right here

29 Apr 2021, 8:57 pm

cberg wrote:
There's a difference between actively excluding OP (we're not) & deleting toxic nonsense that would put off ASD people from different backgrounds. I think inclusion on this site has gone down the tubes as a result of callousness like this & I'm amazed so many people manage to put up with this, FxE included.


I recall this place being worse years ago compared to now.

I don't recall the specific things salad refers to, but I remember stuff similar to that being tolerated.


_________________
politics is dumb but very important
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う


Mr Reynholm
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2019
Age: 54
Gender: Male
Posts: 737
Location: Tulsa, OK

29 Apr 2021, 9:01 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Sorry, got to this thread late.
Ignoring a problem to the point of denying it even exists won't make it go away. On the contrary, racists will be encouraged to spread their hate.

Yes Racism does exist. But no the United States is not a racist country.
There is a great deal of nuance that you are missing.


How deep and how broad would racism have to be before you were willing to say the United States is a racist country?

Was the US a racist country in WWII when black soldiers were fighting overseas to secure rights for foreigners they knew they would be denied back home?

You seem determined to believe that it’s a racist country. I’m not going to be able to change that by invoking hypotheticals.



funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,893
Location: I'm right here

29 Apr 2021, 9:34 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Sorry, got to this thread late.
Ignoring a problem to the point of denying it even exists won't make it go away. On the contrary, racists will be encouraged to spread their hate.

Yes Racism does exist. But no the United States is not a racist country.
There is a great deal of nuance that you are missing.


How deep and how broad would racism have to be before you were willing to say the United States is a racist country?

Was the US a racist country in WWII when black soldiers were fighting overseas to secure rights for foreigners they knew they would be denied back home?

You seem determined to believe that it’s a racist country. I’m not going to be able to change that by invoking hypotheticals.


I believe it is still a racist country, I believe it's been worse in earlier eras.

Do you believe America has never been a racist country? If not, when did it cease? I'm not asking you to change my mind, I'm asking you to explain what you believe. Are you worried that what you believe might turn out to be demonstrably false?


_________________
politics is dumb but very important
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う


Mr Reynholm
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2019
Age: 54
Gender: Male
Posts: 737
Location: Tulsa, OK

29 Apr 2021, 9:35 pm

So what does everybody think about Senator Tim Scott? The man who said "America is not a racist country".



salad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Jul 2011
Age: 25
Gender: Male
Posts: 996

29 Apr 2021, 9:49 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
cberg wrote:
There's a difference between actively excluding OP (we're not) & deleting toxic nonsense that would put off ASD people from different backgrounds. I think inclusion on this site has gone down the tubes as a result of callousness like this & I'm amazed so many people manage to put up with this, FxE included.


I recall this place being worse years ago compared to now.

I don't recall the specific things salad refers to, but I remember stuff similar to that being tolerated.


One of the incidents I mentioned you should remember because you were actually arguing with the guy who said such offensive trash. Last year during a shooting in Germany against a Turkish hookah cafe I believe one of the vermin on this site openly defended the shooting and you retaliated by calling him a "chicken sh**".

Because Ive been contacted by the Mods not to use member names I can't say explicitly the names of whoever said that, but you'll remember a German bigot on this forum who has a nasty hatred of foreigners.


_________________
"One often meets his destiny on the road he takes to avoid it."

Master Oogway


Mr Reynholm
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2019
Age: 54
Gender: Male
Posts: 737
Location: Tulsa, OK

29 Apr 2021, 9:49 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Sorry, got to this thread late.
Ignoring a problem to the point of denying it even exists won't make it go away. On the contrary, racists will be encouraged to spread their hate.

Yes Racism does exist. But no the United States is not a racist country.
There is a great deal of nuance that you are missing.


How deep and how broad would racism have to be before you were willing to say the United States is a racist country?

Was the US a racist country in WWII when black soldiers were fighting overseas to secure rights for foreigners they knew they would be denied back home?

You seem determined to believe that it’s a racist country. I’m not going to be able to change that by invoking hypotheticals.


I believe it is still a racist country, I believe it's been worse in earlier eras.

Do you believe America has never been a racist country? If not, when did it cease? I'm not asking you to change my mind, I'm asking you to explain what you believe. Are you worried that what you believe might turn out to be demonstrably false?

OK understand that this is my OPINION based on years of being a student of history and lots of worldwide travel. So I am not demanding that anyone accept it.
So....
I believe that America was founded as a noble country but has made mistakes. I can not think of a country that has not. The age that the USA was founded was a different time, and slavery was just a fact of life. America was among the countries that got to work to END slavery. The USA has liberated more people around the world than any other nation and has abused its power less than any nation in history.
I don't think it has ever been a "racist" country, but racism has existed within the USA in some individuals and certain institutions. Racism is one of the ugly aspects of the human condition. You can choose not to be racist but you can't outlaw it.
America is in a swift decline and I don't believe its replacement will be a better or freer nation. Most of human history is oppression and dictatorships. The foolishness of our people today is that they are indoctrinated into a hatred for America because it doesn't live up to some hypothetical utopia. Only when it is gone (soon) will people for a brief moment realize how good it was.



funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,893
Location: I'm right here

29 Apr 2021, 9:54 pm

salad wrote:
One of the incidents I mentioned you should remember because you were actually arguing with the guy who said such offensive trash. Last year during a shooting in Germany against a Turkish hookah cafe I believe one of the vermin on this site openly defended the shooting and you retaliated by calling him a "chicken sh**".

Because Ive been contacted by the Mods not to use member names I can't say explicitly the names of whoever said that, but you'll remember a German bigot on this forum who has a nasty hatred of foreigners.


Yeah, it faded into the background like most of the specific events do but now that you bring up more detail I remember it.

That's kinda to my general point though, bitter outbursts of racism used to have to be tolerated and if you called them what they were there was a risk of trouble. Part of the reason I'm convinced this place is better than it had been is that I'm a lot less angry when I post here. :oops:


_________________
politics is dumb but very important
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う


salad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Jul 2011
Age: 25
Gender: Male
Posts: 996

29 Apr 2021, 10:07 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Sorry, got to this thread late.
Ignoring a problem to the point of denying it even exists won't make it go away. On the contrary, racists will be encouraged to spread their hate.

Yes Racism does exist. But no the United States is not a racist country.
There is a great deal of nuance that you are missing.


How deep and how broad would racism have to be before you were willing to say the United States is a racist country?

Was the US a racist country in WWII when black soldiers were fighting overseas to secure rights for foreigners they knew they would be denied back home?

You seem determined to believe that it’s a racist country. I’m not going to be able to change that by invoking hypotheticals.


I believe it is still a racist country, I believe it's been worse in earlier eras.

Do you believe America has never been a racist country? If not, when did it cease? I'm not asking you to change my mind, I'm asking you to explain what you believe. Are you worried that what you believe might turn out to be demonstrably false?

OK understand that this is my OPINION based on years of being a student of history and lots of worldwide travel. So I am not demanding that anyone accept it.
So....
I believe that America was founded as a noble country but has made mistakes. I can not think of a country that has not. The age that the USA was founded was a different time, and slavery was just a fact of life. America was among the countries that got to work to END slavery. The USA has liberated more people around the world than any other nation and has abused its power less than any nation in history.
I don't think it has ever been a "racist" country, but racism has existed within the USA in some individuals and certain institutions. Racism is one of the ugly aspects of the human condition. You can choose not to be racist but you can't outlaw it.
America is in a swift decline and I don't believe its replacement will be a better or freer nation. Most of human history is oppression and dictatorships. The foolishness of our people today is that they are indoctrinated into a hatred for America because it doesn't live up to some hypothetical utopia. Only when it is gone (soon) will people for a brief moment realize how good it was.


America was founded on noble principles but it didn't just "make mistakes", it flat out commit genocide against an entire world population, perpetrated one of the most ugly and disgusting forms of racism never ever before seen in world history, America actually didn't work hard to end slavery since it was actually one of the later countries to abolish slavery and only after a brutal civil war that killed more Americans than every other war in American history put together, it was the British Navy that actually worked hard to ban international slavery although it created a de facto system of slavery using its conquered subjects as colonial labor forces, and you saying America was never a racist country even as the founding fathers of this country openly promoted white supremacy and original drafts of the Declaration of Independence talked about freedom only for white men, that's just ignorant.

America didnt make some tiny baby mistakes, America's crimes against the natives, against blacks, against many other groups it conquered, were easily some of the worst in all of world history. And I actually can confidently say all of world history. Hitler himself said he was inspired by America when committing the Holocaust:

https://www.amazon.com/Hitlers-American ... 8&qid=&sr=

The American government was easily one of the most evil throughout all of world history, and that is a fact, and denying it doesnt take away the plight of the millions who have suffered under America's horrible racist legacy.

Sure right now America is no where near as racist as it used to be, but in the past it was up there with Nazi Germany as one of the most evil nations on earth.


_________________
"One often meets his destiny on the road he takes to avoid it."

Master Oogway


funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,893
Location: I'm right here

29 Apr 2021, 10:10 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Sorry, got to this thread late.
Ignoring a problem to the point of denying it even exists won't make it go away. On the contrary, racists will be encouraged to spread their hate.

Yes Racism does exist. But no the United States is not a racist country.
There is a great deal of nuance that you are missing.


How deep and how broad would racism have to be before you were willing to say the United States is a racist country?

Was the US a racist country in WWII when black soldiers were fighting overseas to secure rights for foreigners they knew they would be denied back home?

You seem determined to believe that it’s a racist country. I’m not going to be able to change that by invoking hypotheticals.


I believe it is still a racist country, I believe it's been worse in earlier eras.

Do you believe America has never been a racist country? If not, when did it cease? I'm not asking you to change my mind, I'm asking you to explain what you believe. Are you worried that what you believe might turn out to be demonstrably false?

OK understand that this is my OPINION based on years of being a student of history and lots of worldwide travel. So I am not demanding that anyone accept it.
So....
I believe that America was founded as a noble country but has made mistakes. I can not think of a country that has not. The age that the USA was founded was a different time, and slavery was just a fact of life. America was among the countries that got to work to END slavery. The USA has liberated more people around the world than any other nation and has abused its power less than any nation in history.
I don't think it has ever been a "racist" country, but racism has existed within the USA in some individuals and certain institutions. Racism is one of the ugly aspects of the human condition. You can choose not to be racist but you can't outlaw it.
America is in a swift decline and I don't believe its replacement will be a better or freer nation. Most of human history is oppression and dictatorships. The foolishness of our people today is that they are indoctrinated into a hatred for America because it doesn't live up to some hypothetical utopia. Only when it is gone (soon) will people for a brief moment realize how good it was.


So, this is my opinion based on years of reading about American history, colonial history and from talking to lots of Americans from a range of backgrounds:

I believe some noble attitudes were incorporated into the founding documents, but those documents came long after America had been established and that the system of plantation slavery practiced throughout the colonies infected America as deeply as any of the others.

Those attitudes were foundational, if they weren't America wouldn't have protected them by accepting the slave states or by stealing native land under the belief that they were inherently entitled to it. White supremacy was baked in from day one. Even if lip service has been paid to higher ideals, the fact of the matter is that there's been a long history of failure in this regard. America is probably less racist on an institutional and structural level, but there's still a lot of work to be done.

Those ideals you mention are good and had great impact on the world even if America never actually incorporated them as deeply as they often claim to have. America literally represents the first country founded on liberalism, even if it was very imperfect in execution. Elevating the ideals that America claimed would restore a sense of purpose and, if the decline you speak of is occurring, contribute to preventing it by restoring unity. White supremacists who try to prevent other people's viewpoints from being spoken contribute to that decline even as they point to it as an example that their ideals need to be elevated with no argument better than because back in the good ol' days we ran things.

No one's calling for holding racist attitudes to be outlawed, but reforms that reduce how often racist hold power over others is a positive thing.

Younger generations are often hopeful for the future, it's not as though everyone believes America is in decline, or at the very least that it needs to be. But because their vision for the future is different from that of their grandparents and those caught up by the media machine that disinforms their grandparents they're having to fight against their grandparents (and their allies) who seem perfectly willing to burn everything down in order to prevent a world where progressives and social democrats get their way on some issues and where white people don't hold almost all of the power.

The younger generations will be stuck to deal with the results no matter what, it would be nice to not have to fight against an increasingly militant far-right largely made up of older people who won't be around for the consequences whether they get their way or not while also trying to accommodate the world's other glaring concerns that should be the main priority.


_________________
politics is dumb but very important
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う


salad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Jul 2011
Age: 25
Gender: Male
Posts: 996

29 Apr 2021, 10:15 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
salad wrote:
One of the incidents I mentioned you should remember because you were actually arguing with the guy who said such offensive trash. Last year during a shooting in Germany against a Turkish hookah cafe I believe one of the vermin on this site openly defended the shooting and you retaliated by calling him a "chicken sh**".

Because Ive been contacted by the Mods not to use member names I can't say explicitly the names of whoever said that, but you'll remember a German bigot on this forum who has a nasty hatred of foreigners.


Yeah, it faded into the background like most of the specific events do but now that you bring up more detail I remember it.

That's kinda to my general point though, bitter outbursts of racism used to have to be tolerated and if you called them what they were there was a risk of trouble. Part of the reason I'm convinced this place is better than it had been is that I'm a lot less angry when I post here. :oops:


I had a hard time controlling my tempter when I 1st joined, heck I still struggle with my temper like with that one ignoramus who called me anti-Semitic just for condemning the IDF using facts and logic, however back then my temper was more out of control because I was a lot younger, more emotional, and the racism I faced on this site was so staggering it actually made me think this site is a legitimate white supremacist site. I'm not lying to you when I say that me and many of the other minorities on this site used to talk amongst ourself on PM and say how we hate this site for its racism, and many of us left. Heck for many years I left this site because I couldn't take the racism on this site and the mods back then did little to anything about it.

I'm talking things like saying slavery was the best thing to ever happen to blacks, always justifying Palestinians getting killed, one member on this forum actually said America should send death squads into Latin America to kill Mexicans to stop illegal immigration, and just so many other example of racism and hatred I witnessed on this site towards minorities almost all of the ones I knew became terrified to be here and we wished we could find another site for Aspies that respect minorities

I still remember 6 years ago certain members openly talking about killing Muslims how mad I got. I want on an emotional tirade and started swearing at them, then I got banned. Great times.


_________________
"One often meets his destiny on the road he takes to avoid it."

Master Oogway


funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,893
Location: I'm right here

29 Apr 2021, 10:54 pm

salad wrote:
I'm not lying to you when I say that me and many of the other minorities on this site used to talk amongst ourself on PM and say how we hate this site for its racism, and many of us left. Heck for many years I left this site because I couldn't take the racism on this site and the mods back then did little to anything about it.
...
I still remember 6 years ago certain members openly talking about killing Muslims how mad I got. I want on an emotional tirade and started swearing at them, then I got banned. Great times.


I quit for awhile because of being sick of those things. I never really PM'd people but I've argued before that those attitudes have probably contributed to the demographics of the website. I was close to it a second time but when I saw how Alex weighed in I was absolutely relieved. I was tired of how those attitudes were tolerated and how the previously more moderate appearing conservative posters were now leaning more heavily into alt-right talking points and imagery. When guys started openly posting Klan and Proud Boys stuff and praising them I was livid and called one of them out by saying if he wasn't one of those guys he should stop sympathizing with them, if you lay with dogs you'll end up with fleas. That tried to get spun as me being the bully but in the end Alex weighed in and clarified things and was largely in agreement with what I had been arguing the whole time.

Anyways, dare I speculate about the polecat who banned you? :chin: (but not openly)


_________________
politics is dumb but very important
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う


TwisterUprocker
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

Joined: 24 Nov 2019
Gender: Male
Posts: 75

30 Apr 2021, 12:46 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Anyways, dare I speculate about the polecat who banned you? :chin: (but not openly)


This isn't Mad Max: Fury Road.