Page 3 of 3 [ 47 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

Mona Pereth
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Sep 2018
Age: 63
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,254
Location: New York City (Queens)

02 Jun 2021, 8:10 am

starkid wrote:
The online questionnaires and symptom lists for autism focus heavily on psychological and social traits (such as theory of mind and understanding of sarcasm). When people come to WP wondering whether they have autism, they usually have lists of vague symptoms like anxiety and "never fitting in."

Autism is not a mental disorder. I don't know why but it seems like many people overlook the associated medical issues, such as

lack of manual dexterity
chronic sleep problems
IBS
weak or absent sensations of pain, hunger, or need to use the bathroom
headaches associated with noise or visual stimulation
nausea caused by certain odors or food textures
Irlen syndrome
superhuman hearing

and so on. These kinds of experiences are easier than psychological and social traits for a person to self-identify, so it's curious that they rarely seem to come up.

Probably because most of them aren't part of the diagnostic criteria for ASD? They aren't defining traits of autism, and they are not found among all autistic people, although they indeed are much more common among autistic people than among allistic people. Most autistic people have some but not all of the traits you listed above.

Some of the traits you listed are among the many possible forms of the diagnostic criteria's B.4, "Hyper- or hyporeactivity to sensory input" -- but that's an optional criterion (the DSM requires only "at least two of four" of B.1, B.2, B.3, and B.4).

Anyhow, until someone has actually taken the time to read up on autism, it might not occur to them that whatever miscellaneous neurological oddities they might have are even relevant. That's probably the main reason why people -- even those who actually do have some of the traits you listed -- don't mention them when they first start wondering if they might be autistic.

Until I started reading in-depth about autism a few years ago, it simply did not occur to me that my sleep issues and my assorted sensory quirks (e.g. the left side of my body being more sensitive to heat than the right side of my body) had anything whatsoever to do with my social difficulties -- although I did see a strong connection between my attention issues (e.g. extreme difficulty with multi-tasking) and my social difficulties (e.g. difficulties with eye contact and unfocused chitchat in with multiple people). Until I started reading in-depth about autism, I just thought of myself as a person with a lot of odds and ends of mostly unrelated neurological quirks. It never occurred to me to think of them as a single unified whole, of any kind.

(Indeed, I still don't think of them all as a unified whole. "Autism" is an extremely broad and heterogeneous category.)

starkid wrote:
Similarly, whether a person had (or still has) any developmental delays is a crucial question to ask. Do you still have trouble tying your shoes as an adult? Have trouble swallowing?

What used to be called "Asperger's disorder" didn't necessarily involve developmental delays except in the social realm.

starkid wrote:
To be honest, I'm getting tired of the "I was a weird kid so maybe I'm autistic" stuff online. Autism, a neurological condition, creates notably different core experiences in sensory perception and biological functions as well as thinking processes, not just a life as a misunderstood outsider.

But "life as a misunderstood outsider" is a necessary consequence of items A.1, A.2, and A.3 of the diagnostic criteria, although not every "misunderstood outsider" is autistic.


_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.
- My Twitter (new as of 2021)


Last edited by Mona Pereth on 02 Jun 2021, 8:38 am, edited 4 times in total.

Mona Pereth
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Sep 2018
Age: 63
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,254
Location: New York City (Queens)

02 Jun 2021, 8:30 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
I agree with you starkid. Although those specific traits aren't listed in the diagnostic criteria they are certainly applicable and relevant. I feel like a lot of people focus on social aspects and don't even discuss sensory disorders or physical problems like misophonia, photophobia, poor interoception etc. In fact I feel quite alienated sometimes because I try to discuss those topics and it seems others can't relate to my work with Occupational Therapy. It sometimes makes me wonder how other people got diagnosed if they don't have sensory issues or physical and perceptual problems, since that was such a big part of my assessment.

Because, in the diagnostic criteria, B.4 ("Hyper- or hyporeactivity to sensory input") is one of four categories of triats (listed as B.1, B.2, B.3, and B.4), of which a person must have only "at least two of four" in order to be diagnosed with ASD. Thus, a person without any sensory issues at all can fit the diagnostic criteria.


_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.
- My Twitter (new as of 2021)


Mona Pereth
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Sep 2018
Age: 63
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,254
Location: New York City (Queens)

02 Jun 2021, 8:43 am

Edna3362 wrote:
Nevermind why socialization is hard because of countless interferences, willing or not, compatibility and sociability or not.

I think the underlying neurological causes of our social issues vary from one autistic person to another.

For example, for some of us, our social difficulties are caused, to a large degree, by distractions due to extreme sensory issues.

For others, including myself, our social difficulties are caused primarily by attention issues (though not the kinds of attention difficulties that are typical of ADHD). Like many autistic people, I have much more-than-normal difficulty with multi-tasking.


_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.
- My Twitter (new as of 2021)


Edna3362
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 29 Oct 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,227
Location: ᜆᜄᜎᜓᜄ᜔

02 Jun 2021, 9:38 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
Edna3362 wrote:
Nevermind why socialization is hard because of countless interferences, willing or not, compatibility and sociability or not.

I think the underlying neurological causes of our social issues vary from one autistic person to another.

For example, for some of us, our social difficulties are caused, to a large degree, by distractions due to extreme sensory issues.

For others, including myself, our social difficulties are caused primarily by attention issues (though not the kinds of attention difficulties that are typical of ADHD). Like many autistic people, I have much more-than-normal difficulty with multi-tasking.

If one reads my whole posts, that's mostly my point.


The quoted quote above is one of my main complaints. :lol:
Of informal tests prioritizing socialization difficulties as opposed to why socialization is hard instead.


Many tests do not say AS's social difficulties reasons came from sheer executive dysfunction via dysregulation or the overall ADHD or more physical oriented states like chronic exhaustion.
As opposed to, uhh, 'geekiness' or 'being awkward'. :|


_________________
Gained Number Post Count (1).
Lose Time (n).


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 50,737
Location: Stendec

02 Jun 2021, 9:45 am

Why do some people assume that the results of an on-line test make their ASD "diagnosis" somehow official?

On-line tests seem to have an inherent bias toward a positive diagnosis, yet most of them also seem to have been written by people who are not appropriately-trained and licensed mental-health professionals -- it seems more likely that the people who write those on-line tests only read the Wikipedia entry on autism.


_________________
 Link to Official List of Trump's Atrocities 

45OFFICE = TRE45ON
Lock Him Up!


dragonsanddemons
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Mar 2011
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 6,271
Location: The Labyrinth of Leviathan

02 Jun 2021, 9:10 pm

Based on physical things, I would probably be disqualified. Yes, I have hypersensitive hearing, auditory processing problems, and life-long insomnia, but that’s really it. No food allergies or intolerances, no gut issues at any point in my life (it’s rare for me to even get a stomach bug, though that may be in large part because I’m paranoid about food safety), not significantly more clumsy or less dexterous than most people, no hypermobility (unless one double-jointed thumb counts), no light sensitivity, no medication sensitivity, no hypo sensitivities (actually I am hypersensitive to pain, and also vestibularly hypersensitive, I’d get a headache just by using a swing as a kid and could not handle anything involving spinning)...

Yet I seem more affected by the things that are a part of the diagnostic criteria than the majority of people I encounter with official diagnoses (if re-assessed under DSM V criteria, I would almost certainly be diagnosed with ASD level 2, not level 1) and was professionally diagnosed as a kid before I’d ever even heard the word “autism” before. Somehow I manage to be a “textbook” case while simultaneously displaying almost none of the stereotypes or physical things that are common.


_________________
Yet in my new wildness and freedom I almost welcome the bitterness of alienage. For although nepenthe has calmed me, I know always that I am an outsider; a stranger in this century and among those who are still men.
-H. P. Lovecraft, "The Outsider"

When you assume, it makes an a** out of u and me.


Mountain Goat
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 13 May 2019
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,313

02 Jun 2021, 9:51 pm

starkid wrote:
The online questionnaires and symptom lists for autism focus heavily on psychological and social traits (such as theory of mind and understanding of sarcasm). When people come to WP wondering whether they have autism, they usually have lists of vague symptoms like anxiety and "never fitting in."

Autism is not a mental disorder. I don't know why but it seems like many people overlook the associated medical issues, such as

lack of manual dexterity
chronic sleep problems
IBS
weak or absent sensations of pain, hunger, or need to use the bathroom
headaches associated with noise or visual stimulation
nausea caused by certain odors or food textures
Irlen syndrome
superhuman hearing

and so on. These kinds of experiences are easier than psychological and social traits for a person to self-identify, so it's curious that they rarely seem to come up.

Similarly, whether a person had (or still has) any developmental delays is a crucial question to ask. Do you still have trouble tying your shoes as an adult? Have trouble swallowing?

To be honest, I'm getting tired of the "I was a weird kid so maybe I'm autistic" stuff online. Autism, a neurological condition, creates notably different core experiences in sensory perception and biological functions as well as thinking processes, not just a life as a misunderstood outsider.


Some of those things I have difficulty with or have. Not all, but some... And a few come and go at certain stress periods of my life and during and after burnout.

At least one I am looking at I did not know was associated with autism and I have in the last few years been back and fore to the doctors about and once in hospital (A&E) about. It is something I only started to have about two or three burnouts ago over about a period of five years, but it has on occasions made me struggle for my life and one stand in doctor who is not from our surgery did not see it as a problem (She assumed I was naturally like that which I am not).
Not one has suggested a link to autism and to be honest, I don't think it is known with local doctors there is a link between the two?

I feel a bit on my own in regards to this. It is nothing sexual or bad.



Glflegolas
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 20 Dec 2016
Age: 23
Gender: Male
Posts: 479
Location: NS, Canada

03 Jun 2021, 6:14 pm

As someone with NLD (not AS), I'm not entirely sure how qualified I am to speak on this, but I'll try.

I think most of the issues that the OP has identified are related to sensory processing differences.* I really don't have any of my own, aside from not liking very loud sounds (such as train horns, gunshots, fireworks, flares, etc) when I was younger.

I am not 100% sure whether the social issues in those with ASD's are intrinsic or related to sensory processing differences. I'm inclined to think the latter, but could be wrong.

*Aside from those associated with NLD, which is a spatial-perceptual disorder at its core.


_________________
~Glflegolas, B.Sc.
The Colourblind Country Chemist & Tropical Tracker

Myers-Briggs personality: The Commander
Asperger's Quiz: 79/111, both neurodiverse and neurotypical traits present. AQ score: 23 Raads-r score: here


HeroOfHyrule
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 May 2020
Age: 19
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 5,842
Location: Pacific Northwest

04 Jun 2021, 11:21 am

Like other people have said, most of those things fall under sensory issues which are a part of the diagnostic criteria now (but aren't really required). Sensory issues are also not "medical" issues. Autism is a neurological/developmental disorder that may or may not be associated with a select few medical issues.

What should or should not be diagnostic criteria also gets complicated when you have a disorder that is a "spectrum", and currently has an upwards of 100+ genes that are being looked at as possible causes of it. There's going to be a lot of people who wont have the sensory issues or medical issues you mentioned.

Also, the being an "outsider" thing is true for a lot of people, and like others have mentioned a lot of people figuring out their autism later in life don't even notice that their sensory/medical issues are a part of their disorder. Some people don't even recognize they have issues like that afterwards, because that sensory experience is just "normal" to them.


_________________
I use he/him pronouns.

I like playing video games, watching cartoons and anime, reading, and cooking.

I have two cats, a rabbit, and a dog. I also enjoy learning + cataloguing information about different types of animals and plants.

Empathy Quotient: 34/80
Systemizing Quotient: 104/150
Friendship Quotient: 56/140
Autism Quotient: 36/80

RAADS-R: 169

CAT-Q: 153
Compensation: 57
Masking: 47
Assimilation: 49

Your broader autism cluster (Aspie) score: 144 of 200.
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 63 of 200.
You are very likely on the broader autism cluster (Aspie).


ToughDiamond
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Age: 68
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,282

06 Jun 2021, 3:45 pm

I don't know how it could be proved or disproved without a laborious search through the tons of informal descriptions and tests that are out there, but for a long time I've felt that I'd prefer to see more focus on the physical manifestations of ASD. Not necessarily less material on the social impacts, just more about the physical stuff.



naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 26,938
Location: temperate zone

06 Jun 2021, 6:20 pm

From my pov the OP is total ass-backward crap.

I dont have any sensory issues that i can think of. The issues that the OP is "sick of" are the very, and the only issues, that apply to me (social, not fitting in, executive issues).



Udinaas
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Sep 2020
Age: 25
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,185

08 Jun 2021, 7:36 pm

starkid wrote:
Udinaas wrote:
I'm not trying to dismiss the medical issues but I don't want to gatekeep the community against people that might need help.

It took me forever to figure out how to respond to this comment of yours because the comment doesn't seem on-topic.

You do not have the power to gatekeep the entire autism community (assuming that's the community you meant).

It was poorly worded. I meant that I don't want the physical issues to be a requirement for diagnosis or for being accepted as autistic by the autistic community.



CockneyRebel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 104,943
Location: Canada in person, Germany in spirit

08 Jun 2021, 9:24 pm

I'm surprised that the things that Starkid brought up aren't included in the list of indicators.


_________________
Peabody

Om Nom 2024

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26&start=645


ronglxy
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

Joined: 7 Apr 2021
Age: 77
Posts: 33

09 Jun 2021, 6:50 am

This was great stuff for me. I recognized lots that I othewise I would not ever have Thanks.

Has anyone done anything similar for just the thinking styles of it all??

Im not sure at all what exactly it is Im trying to ask here, but my maybe not aspie cuz I cant seem to get "diagnosed". But mine is super spockish??



ToughDiamond
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Age: 68
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,282

09 Jun 2021, 11:48 am

To me it's quite an intriguing thing because, having retired, I no longer have any urgent need to interact socially, apart from occasionally with service providers, much of which can be done via the written word where there's less chance of trouble arising from my autism. I'm not saying I don't "need" friends, just that my life and livelihood is a lot less dependent on my social skills now. So since retiring I've had this idea rattling around my head - "ok, now you don't need to keep NTs sweet any more and you've got control over practically your whole existence, what is still wrong?" And I've not found much help on the Web for that. It's mostly about the problems of fitting into society, keeping a job, flirting, winning friends, etc.

I also note that it's a common argument that the only thing wrong with Aspies is that society sees them as having something the matter with them, that we just do some things differently, neither better nor worse. So, eliminate society and we have a better chance of studying the absolute side of the disability, the side we can't blame on NT prejudice.