What did the western intervention in Afghanistan achieve ?

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weirdperson75000
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02 May 2021, 3:01 am

The longest, most pointless and unsuccessful war that Britain has fought in the past 70 years – its intervention in Afghanistan – is to end in September. I doubt anyone will notice. Nations celebrate victories, not defeats.

Twenty years ago the United States decided to relieve its 9/11 agony not just by blasting Osama bin Laden’s base in the Afghan mountains, but by toppling the entire Afghan regime. This was despite young Taliban moderates declaring Bin Laden an “unwelcome guest” and the regime demanding he leave. The US then decided not just to blast Kabul but invited Nato to launder its action as a matter of global security. Britain had no dog in this fight and only joined because Tony Blair liked George W Bush.


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... tan-terror



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02 May 2021, 3:24 am

Well, it achieved about as much as the Western intervention in Iraq in 2003. Nothing.


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funeralxempire
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02 May 2021, 1:08 pm

It transferred large amounts of tax money to the DoD and to private defence contractors. It was grand-scale theft, nothing more.


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02 May 2021, 1:12 pm

weirdperson75000 wrote:
What Did The Western Intervention In Afghanistan Achieve ?

Other than giving my brother and nephew PTSD, and via other veterans advancing artificial limb technology, I'm not sure.


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02 May 2021, 3:01 pm

The US military track record since WW2:

Korea War: Tie
Vietnam War: Defeat
Gulf War: Victory
Afghanistan War: Defeat
Iraq War: Defeat

So, for a for $ 714 Billion annual budget.... you get a 60 % failure rate against impoverished third rate armies.

And yes, I know the US technically hasn't decided to pull out of Iraq yet, but if anyone wants to call the FUBAR that literally created ISIS a victory (or even a tie), then be my guest...


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DoniiMann
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02 May 2021, 3:53 pm

What has it achieved? It's succeeded in waking China and Russia up to the fact that the West 'ain't all that', where military matters are concerned.


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02 May 2021, 3:53 pm

Hopefully its achievements will include causing Americans to realize that starting wars and toppling regimes overseas for vague or false reasons is a bad idea.
Then again, the older generation didn't learn that lesson from 'Nam. Lol the Gulf War gave them enough confidence in reckless American interventionism to start two concurrent disaster wars within 3 years of each other.
I will be damn glad when we're out of Afghanistan. America has been at war since I was in 3rd grade and I'm damn tired of it. Maybe we'll find something better to spend money on.


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02 May 2021, 4:43 pm

Hasn't America been at war for the vast majority of its existence?

A lot of money is made out of it, presumably.



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02 May 2021, 4:48 pm

No need to worry, though.

Being unable - with the combined sophisticated military might of all US service branches - to defeat enemies who resort to such technologically advanced tactics as crawling in tunnels and riding on donkeys, the US will surely think twice about flexing its (evidently unimpressive) military muscles again anytime soon...

The US most certainly wouldn't be so foolish as to withdraw from Afghanistan with the purpose of starting a new military stand-off more than 7,000 miles from its own shores against the largest economy in the world.. would it?


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02 May 2021, 6:29 pm

Redd_Kross wrote:
Hasn't America been at war for the vast majority of its existence?

A lot of money is made out of it, presumably.


Exactly. The 60% failure ratementioned above ... That's not how you measure success. A war doesn't need to be won, it's enough if the right people can extract billions from it - the loss is covered by the taxpayer, the gains from cheap access to natural resources is privatized.
The republic bleeds for a few to gain from expansion of the empire.
That's how the Roman empire fell.


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Tim_Tex
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02 May 2021, 8:24 pm

What I would like to see is for Afghanistan to be as prosperous as it was under the monarchy and Daoud Khan.

(Basically, pre-1978)


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03 May 2021, 8:33 am

GGPViper wrote:
The US military track record since WW2:

Korea War: Tie
Vietnam War: Defeat
Gulf War: Victory
Afghanistan War: Defeat
Iraq War: Defeat

So, for a for $ 714 Billion annual budget.... you get a 60 % failure rate against impoverished third rate armies.

And yes, I know the US technically hasn't decided to pull out of Iraq yet, but if anyone wants to call the FUBAR that literally created ISIS a victory (or even a tie), then be my guest...

Gulf War was a victory? The Iraq War was in many ways a continuation of the Gulf War but we named it something else but we could not admit we failed in our unstated objective of removing Saddam Hussain. While we succeeded in that objective in the Iraq War it caused so many other problems one can not in any way call it a victory.


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05 May 2021, 4:57 pm

GGPViper wrote:
The US military track record since WW2:

Korea War: Tie
Vietnam War: Defeat
Gulf War: Victory
Afghanistan War: Defeat
Iraq War: Defeat

So, for a for $ 714 Billion annual budget.... you get a 60 % failure rate against impoverished third rate armies.

And yes, I know the US technically hasn't decided to pull out of Iraq yet, but if anyone wants to call the FUBAR that literally created ISIS a victory (or even a tie), then be my guest...

Korea... correct, a tie (actually a US victory, but you could call it a tie).
Vietnam, correct. A defeat.
Gulf War, correct, victory.
Iraq War, false. It was a victory. It was a mistake, but it WAS a victory.
Afghanistan War. hasnt ended yet. It will likely end much like Vietnam (The US withdrew in '73, and Saigon collapsed in '75). So it likely WILL be a defeat.



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05 May 2021, 5:36 pm

Trouble with answering the question is...that its hard to imagine the US NOT invading Afghanistan, because the country was where Ben Laden launched the 9-11 attacks. No POTUS would have responded to 9-11 by not invading Afghanistan. And once the place was invaded mission creep and failed nation building would have inevitably followed.

An alternative 21st Century in which Bush did NOT...ALSO...invade Iraq is easy to imagine, for the obvious reason that Bush had no good reason for invading Iraq.

We would have had the one war in Afganistan, but left Iraq in peace, but in the hands of Saddam Hussien, and not spilled American blood there in that second war theater.

One of two things would have happened- the US would be BETTER off, and there would be LESS influence in the middle east from Iran because Saddam Hussien would be still being ruling Iraq, and would be a staunch bulwark against Iran.

Or...Iraq (being a jury-rigged country much like Lebanon) would have eventually destablized itself with out US help- to DEstablize it- as we did. Saddam would have kicked the bucket of old age, his depraved sons would fight for succession, and the whole country would have unraveled into civil war between ethnic and religous groups. The result would be much like it is now. A Shiite regime would have taken over, and would be friendly to Teheran. Iraq didnt need the US to "restore disorder" ( to quote what W said in his unintentionally truthful slip of the tongue). They were capable of destablizing themselves without our help. But for exactly that reason we didnt have to expend American blood and treasure to help them to destablize themselves. :lol:



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05 May 2021, 5:40 pm

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06 May 2021, 1:08 am

Do people think it was worth going after the organization that caused 9/11 or not really?