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xxZeromancerlovexx
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13 May 2021, 7:11 am

I tried being vegan and not only was I tired all the time and fake meat was nasty it really took a toll on me mentally.

I started eating meat and dairy again and feel much healthier. Is it normal for the vegan diet to not work for some people?


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magz
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13 May 2021, 7:26 am

Yes, humans are naturally omnivorous and vegan diet needs much more careful balancing to be healthy.
Though, some people benefit from vegan diet exactly because of this - they make the effort to plan and balance their diet and it forces them to change their dietary habits for the better.


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13 May 2021, 7:31 am

Some effort required to make vegan diet healthy. On average plant based food is deficient in many essential amino acids and fats and contains antinutrients that can trigger autoimmune issues and make microelements and vitamins less bioavailable.



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13 May 2021, 8:06 am

Our oldest ancestors, great apes and monkeys, did not eat meat. They ate only fruit and nuts.

The first homosapien who ate meat turned against natures cosmic and natural harmony when he killed an animal to eat it.

There is no difference between a human and an animal. Just appearance and genetics, we share the same red blood, heart, soul, consciousness and life and most importantly - animals deserve too belong with nature peacefully as animals were meant too through infinite possibilities of creation in the universe without human disturbance.

We have more power over the animals we eat. "All animals are equal / but some animals are more equal than others.” - George Orwell. The animal does not deserve to die. Human's are selfish.


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13 May 2021, 8:41 am

nadroJ wrote:
Our oldest ancestors, great apes and monkeys, did not eat meat. They ate only fruit and nuts...
This is a common misconception.  When the only images that get published show apes and monkeys peacefully grooming each other, sleeping, or eating leaves and fruit, it is easy to be fooled into thinking that the are passive herbivores.

In reality, apes and monkey are omnivores, and will eat insects, small animals, and even each other's babies in addition to whatever vegetable matter they may find nearby.


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13 May 2021, 8:50 am

nadroJ wrote:
Our oldest ancestors, great apes and monkeys, did not eat meat. They ate only fruit and nuts.

The first homosapien who ate meat turned against natures cosmic and natural harmony when he killed an animal to eat it.

.



Chimps hunt and kill their smaller primate cousins, the colobus monkeys, in the wild, and eat them. All monkeys and apes supplement their mostly plant diet by eating insects. Chimps in the wild are famous for "termite fishing" ( sticking sticks into the holes of termite mounds to lure the termites into biting the sticks - and then removing the sticks with the bugs latched onto the stick by thier mouths- so the chimps can lick the termites off of the sticks like theyre meat popsicles). The common ancestor of chimps and humans probably did that too, and that was how tool use got started.

After our ancestors branched off from the chimps and ventured onto the African grasslands they probably scavanged the game of the extant professional carnivores of the time. Mobbed cheetahs to steal the cat's fresh kill. Or the troop would find a leopard's lair - a tree festooned with dead gazelles hanging from branches, and would steal the dead gazelles. We would take rocks to smash the bones of discovered carcasses to get at that marrow ( from there we developed stone technology). Though it was a long time before our ancestors evolved into being proficient big game hunters in our own right- our ancestors probably already had had a long history of supplementing their diets with both white and red meat even before we had become fully human.



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13 May 2021, 8:54 am

nadroJ wrote:
Our oldest ancestors, great apes and monkeys, did not eat meat. They ate only fruit and nuts.

The first homosapien who ate meat turned against natures cosmic and natural harmony when he killed an animal to eat it.

There is no difference between a human and an animal. Just appearance and genetics, we share the same red blood, heart, soul, consciousness and life and most importantly - animals deserve too belong with nature peacefully as animals were meant too through infinite possibilities of creation in the universe without human disturbance.

We have more power over the animals we eat. "All animals are equal / but some animals are more equal than others.” - George Orwell. The animal does not deserve to die. Human's are selfish.


Humans, chimps and bonobos all eat meat and kill to procure it. It's unlikely that our last common ancestor with them also didn't eat meat.

You're right, humans are no different from any other animal, including when we kill and eat other animals. It's what we do as an apex predator.


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13 May 2021, 9:00 am

I never tried vegan (I hate most beans and can’t live on tofu), but I was vegetarian for several years. Eventually I noticed that I was really tired and weak all the time despite getting plenty of protein and taking a multivitamin and several additional supplements. I tried adding meat back into my diet and felt so much better. Don’t know what exactly I was missing, but I have now accepted that some meat is necessary for my nutrition (just as it is for non-human predators).


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13 May 2021, 9:28 am

I tried veganism/vegetarianism for about a year, and was nagged by almost constant hunger that could not be relieved with only a handful of nuts and a carrot stick.  The high I felt from first Big Mac after a year of fruits, nuts, and veggies was almost as good as the high from my first joint!


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xxZeromancerlovexx
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13 May 2021, 8:30 pm

Fnord wrote:
I tried veganism/vegetarianism for about a year, and was nagged by almost constant hunger that could not be relieved with only a handful of nuts and a carrot stick.  The high I felt from first Big Mac after a year of fruits, nuts, and veggies was almost as good as the high from my first joint!


I was hungry all of the time. For some reason beans and tofu don’t fill me up like steak and fish.


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13 May 2021, 9:36 pm

xxZeromancerlovexx wrote:
I tried being vegan and not only was I tired all the time and fake meat was nasty it really took a toll on me mentally.

I started eating meat and dairy again and feel much healthier. Is it normal for the vegan diet to not work for some people?


I don't think it would work for me, I don't mind trying to reduce meat and have been avoiding beef as much as possible since that seems to be the most problematic one environmentally. IDK I am really looking forward to laboratory meat becoming mainstream I think that is really the way forward, it would probably have a smaller environmental impact and they can like perfect the meat and prevent contamination.

But yeah I do not think I could make a vegan diet work, but that doesn't mean I am totally ignorant as to the problems of farming meat and some of the cruelty to animals involved but I have tried going without meat or using some of those meat replacements and it does not feel good. I already sometimes have problem getting my digestive stuff backed up and entirely avoiding meat if anything makes that worse.


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xxZeromancerlovexx
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19 May 2021, 6:43 pm

dragonsanddemons wrote:
I never tried vegan (I hate most beans and can’t live on tofu), but I was vegetarian for several years. Eventually I noticed that I was really tired and weak all the time despite getting plenty of protein and taking a multivitamin and several additional supplements. I tried adding meat back into my diet and felt so much better. Don’t know what exactly I was missing, but I have now accepted that some meat is necessary for my nutrition (just as it is for non-human predators).


I know I’ve thought about the Mediterranean diet. It has a lot of veggies and fruit but I’d get to eat lots of fish, too. I could not give up fish because fish and seafood are part of the cuisine I grew up with.


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tensordyne
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16 Jun 2021, 10:28 am

:D As a 10 year Vegan, I am highly incredulous of claims about a Vegan diet not working for you. Coming off of meat is like coming off of any addiction, there are withdrawal symptoms. Those symptoms do not mean the addiction is good for you though.

The next video provides solid medical reasoning for why some people have a hard time transitioning:



I never had a nagging hunger. I was quite the average meat-heavy diet type of guy before that. I had more energy, and felt better, than I had felt in decades after going Vegan.

If you do not do your homework and eat just salads and veggies all the time (the mental image average people have of what makes up a Vegan diet), yeah, you are going to starve. That is why you have to make sure and get your Carbs. Comfort food, potatoes, beans, lentils, rice, etc...

I mean, when Vegans see the kinds of posts already given on this channel, they must shake their head at how ignorant it all seems.

As a person who believes in Science, I do not care to hear about anecdotes and the quaint reasoning of internet denizens; I want the best expert on the subject to give me the skinny on what is really going on.

A Dartmouth Prof. who specializes in the biological anthropology of hominid nutrition, with an emphasis on humans, suggests humans are Starchivores, not Ominvores, like dogs are, or Carnivores, like cats, or either Frugivores or Folivores, although we descended from species who were fruit and leaf eaters. Other monkeys and Apes are not Omnivores either, btw, they are Herbivores, as that makes up a significant portion of their diets. The little meat they eat is for group cohesion, an occasional insect or from undigested meat in poop.

Cats also occasionally eat plants, so by this thread's logic, I am sure I should classify them as Herbivores. Btw, we lost our ability to synthesize Ascorbic Acid, and thus it is a Vitamin for us (C). That is because we ate plants so abundantly in the past that the gene that allowed for synthesis became turned off (atavistic) because of evolution. A similar thing happened to cats for Carnatine. That is because cats are Carnivores and humans are Herbivores.

Feed an herbivore meat, and they develop a common set of diseases: heart disease (and other ischemia related diseases, stroke, etc...), diabetes, auto-immune diseases, etc... Cats and Dogs don't get those diseases like we do, because they have adaptations to eating meat, which we do not have, because we are not the same as them.

Sorry big men out there, you are not a predator, biologically you are plantar step non-predated plant eater (like Elephants). I know this all must conflict with MEAT = MANLY mentality. Erectile dysfunction is so manly!


Explain that? Explain any of this from the Omnivore point of view, especially the stuff in the video below. :skull:


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16 Jun 2021, 10:30 am

Never let YouTube videos do your thinking for you.


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16 Jun 2021, 11:20 am

Quote:
Never let YouTube videos do your thinking for you.


I feel it is more like you don't want to think about it at all so you are using the above to avoid further discussion.

The second video has points an omnivore could use against the Vegan charge, for instance, but you did not bring those up, and hence, as far as I can tell, you do not want to engage in an honest discussion about the various claims.

This is your right! So be it!! !


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17 Jun 2021, 4:40 pm

xxZeromancerlovexx wrote:
I know I’ve thought about the Mediterranean diet. It has a lot of veggies and fruit but I’d get to eat lots of fish, too. I could not give up fish because fish and seafood are part of the cuisine I grew up with.

Mediterranean diet is supposed to be very healthy, and is also recommended for brain health and preventing dementia.

My main issue with a vegetarian or vegan diet is the mental effort it would take to do it healthfully. And that's more true now, than when I was younger and healthier.


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Last edited by BeaArthur on 17 Jun 2021, 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.