Resurrection of Jesus - or not - why does it matter?

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thinkinginpictures
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21 May 2021, 9:56 am

There seems to be a lot of debate over the resurrection of Jesus.
It seems like many Christians won't accept the possibilities of Jesus still being alive when cut down from the cross, or not resurrected at all.

It is said that the resurrection is proof of Jesus' divinity. And that his divinity is ultimately the proof that whatever Jesus taught during his lifetime, is correct.

But why the need for a divine Christ, which originally means The Annointed One (a title for a king)?

A king needs no divinity. He only needs followers to believe he is their leader.

Why the need for a super-human deity, when all you need to fulfill his wishes for humanity, can be achieved by mere actions in daily life, personal responsibilities like caring for the sick, elderly, disabled, poor and generally speaking - just be a good human?

Also, I doubt Jesus would've accepted everyone wearing a cross around their neck, or worshipping a cross in churches.

It would be like having a symbol of a gallow to worship, or wearing a syringe/needle as a symbol for Lethal Injection, around their neck...



Mr Reynholm
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21 May 2021, 10:39 am

The resurrection is the central doctrine of Christianity.
The penalty for disobedience to God is death. Each human is born in sin and therefore their own death will only pay for their own sin.
Jesus who is God came to Earth in human form to pay the penalty for all mankind. As God he was able to lay down his life and pick it back up again. If there is no resurrection the Christian faith is meaningless.

BTW Christians don't worship the cross. It is just a symbol.



Mountain Goat
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21 May 2021, 11:26 am

thinkinginpictures wrote:
There seems to be a lot of debate over the resurrection of Jesus.
It seems like many Christians won't accept the possibilities of Jesus still being alive when cut down from the cross, or not resurrected at all.

It is said that the resurrection is proof of Jesus' divinity. And that his divinity is ultimately the proof that whatever Jesus taught during his lifetime, is correct.

But why the need for a divine Christ, which originally means The Annointed One (a title for a king)?

A king needs no divinity. He only needs followers to believe he is their leader.

Why the need for a super-human deity, when all you need to fulfill his wishes for humanity, can be achieved by mere actions in daily life, personal responsibilities like caring for the sick, elderly, disabled, poor and generally speaking - just be a good human?

Also, I doubt Jesus would've accepted everyone wearing a cross around their neck, or worshipping a cross in churches.

It would be like having a symbol of a gallow to worship, or wearing a syringe/needle as a symbol for Lethal Injection, around their neck...


Do yourself a study. Read the four different accounts (Mathew, Mark, Luke and John) of your Bible, and then go on to read Acts. (Mathew, Mark and Luke were written by those who were there, and John was written by gathering eye witness accounts of those who were there).

There are two possibilities. One is that the Bible is true and is completely true, and the other is that the Bible is false and completely false.

Read and then decide. :)



funeralxempire
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21 May 2021, 12:07 pm

Mountain Goat wrote:
Do yourself a study. Read the four different accounts (Mathew, Mark, Luke and John) of your Bible, and then go on to read Acts. (Mathew, Mark and Luke were written by those who were there, and John was written by gathering eye witness accounts of those who were there).


From what I've read Biblical scholars would disagree. Among things, it's generally accepted that none of the gospels were written contemporaneous to the events they describe but beyond that Mark is often considered to be a source for Mathew and Luke.

There's lots of competing schools of thought but at this point none of them seem to claim what you're saying. I remember being told similar things in Catholic school but I've never found anything to substantiate their claims vs. the competing claims made by scholars.


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aghogday
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21 May 2021, 12:58 pm



Some DayS A Dog Buries A Bone

And Goes Back to Find it to Find God;

True A Bone is God too; You Will Also

Find God When You Cut A Cord of Wood In two

Divided Yet Whole On Both Sides; Like When We Find

Union oF All Our Mind; Not Just the Material Reductionist

Part That Likes to Use
Tools And Solve

The Problems

Humans Co-Create

in All the Abstract Constructed Tools

(In Illusions of Time, Distance, Space, Matter)

They Create Now That Were Supposed to

Make Life Feel More Like Heaven; Yet of

Course Research Shows that in the Great

Depression Actual Human Psychological Maladies

Of Measured Depression Were 5 to 8-Fold Less than

This So-Called World of Instant Gratification We LiVE iN Now

That Hasn't 'Quiet' Figured Out; Better Put, Remembered How to Even Be Human Whole Now Complete;

Yes, Back to the Metaphor of Art in Smart and Heart; Leave That Part Out and All You Are Left With is

P Better :P As 'Indian Kali' Sticks Her Tongue Out at Humans Not Understanding That DarK Creates LiGHT

And DarK

iS Integral

To the Existence

OF LiGHT STiLL NoW Creating ALL;

True it is very Difficult for "Left Brain

Metaphor Restricted Humans" to Understand
All of Cognition, Social Empathic, And Artistic

Spiritual Intelligences As Metaphors Flow Is More

Relegated to the Right Hemisphere Mind Metaphor of Being;

What You Will Find in the Gospel of Thomas Is Not Text Changed

to Suit Material Reducing Minds, Who Do Not Wear The Kind of Mind That Sees

Deeper than Literal Shallows Of Life Now; True, Buried For Most of the Centuries

After the First Few, Escaping Innumerable Edits, Mistakes, and Intentional Changes

By Scribes Copying By Hand Over Scores of Centuries too Until We Got Something

Close to 'Xerox' That Wasn't So Much Like A Round Table of Discussion that changes

Through Oral Tradition; Every Mile on 'The Road to Damascus', All the Roads Where

Folks Said they had a Different Vision of what Might Have Been Said 40 or 100 or 2000

Years Ago by a Little Brown Man, Who May Have Been Crucified for Real Named Something

Like Yeshua; Yet Never Writing one Word As He Was Obviously Illiterate Aramaic Like all the 'Commoners'

Then Who would have been Associated with A Humble Carpenter; Particularly odd, if he wasn't actually

Married In His 30's, as Single Males Were Looked Down on in the Way 'Incels' Feel Today in Someways too...

Got Good News for 'You', i Understand the Meanings of Every Single Word Below; Got Bad News too, If You

Have Not Developed the Metaphor of Right Hemisphere Intelligences to Understand the Metaphors Below

Through Actual Life Experiences, chances are, You May Not Understand A Single Verse; Yet for those Who

Do they actually

Do Find 'The

Kingdom of Heaven

oN EartH; In Short You

Really Never Die Now

As Long As You

Really

LiVE iN Total

Happiness of

LoVE Real Joy Without Fear

in Giving For Giving Thanks Giving
Sharing, Caring, Without Fear Loving

Once Again With Least Harm Possible

to Everyone Including the Rest of NaTuRE ALL

too as it Comes Clear that ALL of Nature Including

Us; Yes that Cord of Wood Cut In Two; Even the Space

Between Both Is Also Moving God in Move And Repose Now...

There are No Myths Needed in the Text Below That is In the

Common Domain And Has No Copyright Now For Sale As Presented

in the Website linked Below, More Fully too, With the Rest of Gnostic

Gospels In the Common Domain Now For Free Perusal too and to be

Clear, i see the Text

Below As No Greater

Than the 'Tao Te Ching'

Which Basically Just Describes

Autotelic Flow As Well In Effortless

Ease Of Increasing Complexities Achieved

In the Sweet Spots Tween Apathy And Anxiety Now;

Yes, 'The Tao' As Related Here And in Many Other Cross Cultural

Metaphors for This Active Meditation Across the Globe too;

Yes, Yes, Left Brain Restricted Folks By

Metaphor

Like

Their

Meal of Mind

All Tightly Saran

Wrapped And 'Black and White'

Yet Guess what; Life is A River;

Life is Water, Wave, Ocean Whole Change Now

And So Are We Now Until We Actually Experience

This, We've Experienced A Lesser God of Nature

Than i for one Surely do now; That Much is Irrefutable

As This Much is My Experience and Not Yours Whoever You Are

As Indeed You

Are Me too

As the

Rest of Nature

Is All that is God too

Again And in The Space

of A Cord of Wood Cut in two...

It Wouldn't Make a Bit of Difference

if the Authors of the Story Below come

BacK Now or Forevermore Without the

Understanding and the Experience Heaven

Will Never Exist for Anyone until they come now...

If you Are Waiting on Some Dead Corpse From the

Middle East; Some Little Brown Man to Come Back to

Life as A Zombie; More Power to the Ones who Teach You this for sure;

And Sure, More Power to You for there is No Way That Anyone Could Convince

Someone

Who

Believes

In Stuff Like

Q-Anon Conspiracies;

Whoever That Person

Might Be or Trump As

Not A Real Father oF All Lies

Who Actually incited An Insurrection

Against Democracy As That's Even on Tape

by McConnell And McCarthy, Both 'Big Mcs' oF Lies,

Where The Story is Always Changing to 'Suit' Empty

Lies of Greed, Power And Status; No Different Than What 'They' Did

to Change the Essence of the Story below; Yet It's true They forgot

to take Out Luke 17:21 and John 14:12 That Cleary Relates the Only

Place You are ever gonna find Heaven is within now and We all Have

The Authority to do Greater Works Than God if You Really Believe God Is Jesus

Alone; Hehe

It doesn't

Take

A Rocket

(Left Brain Restricted)

Scientist to Figure This

Out; Both Liberals and

Conservatives Wrote the Old Bible

And Trump by Metaphor WaS iN

Charge of the More Psychopathic Parts

Like Do what i say or i'll fire you forever;

And God Yes You Better 'Kiss my 'Ring'

And Leave Your Parents and Friends Behind

And Believe in Me like Any Cult will do their

Best to make You Hate Your Loved ones and

Distance You to become Slaves of Most Despicable Cults

Of

Personality

Leaders Still;

Meanwhile, God

Exists in the

Space

of A Cord

Of Wood Cut in two...

And Obviously This Is Just my

Opinion That i Came to Long

Before i Read the Text Below;

Yet Hey i Am Determined Not to Have Any Authority alone...

For It's True the Last Are First And the Meek Inherit the Earth Serving All Others

Now i Have Enough Evidence in a 6 Inch Screen to Prove this Irrefutably in my Life

In Case Study Empirical Way, True You Don't Have to Be Rationally Black And White

to Show Empirical

Evidence

of what

Actually

Frigging Happens

In Form Of Life Creating Essence For Real too...

i Realize This Is Long; Yet Life is Forevernow When One Truly Breathes...

Hey, All the Cats And Dogs i've Met Understand this Without A Damned Human Word

to Speak;

Yet They

Do Hear Our

Emotions and

Feelings For Real

And Even Our Intentions

Coming By The Music of Our Words...

Chances Are if You 'Think In Pictures' There

is a Greater Potential for You to Understand

The Metaphors Below As Non-Verbal Learning

Difficulties Are Common as Studied Among About

50 Percent of Folks 'Higher' on the Autism Spectrum;

Basically That Means They Often Have Trouble Picturing

Something Else in Our Mind's Eye When it Comes to Metaphors;

i surely Understand Why Many People Don't Understand me when

i use this Kind of Intelligence Here, Yet it's True, Even Under Gillberg

Diagnostic Criteria, Hyperlexic Type Speaking Delays Like i experienced

Until age 4 are Included And People Like me Excel Higher in that Other

Area of Mind Naturally From Birth; Input no Problem for me; Yet

Putting what i understand

That Many Other

Folks May

Have no

Experience of

is More Challenging for

Anyone Who Attempts to Put the

Silent Ineffable Part of Mind And Soul In

Words Yes as 'They' Metaphor 'Holy And Creative Spirit'....

It's Just When the Silent More All Knowing, Feeling, Sensing, Right Brain
Metaphor of Creativity Comes Awake And Decides to Speak in How it does....

It's easy to for me to 'See' When it Does Among Other Folks Like the ones who Wrote What's Below...

In Comparison, Trying To Reduce these Teachings to "A Dude Died, Was Buried And Rose Again to Save

You From Your Sins And Make You Rise Again too After Death; Doesn't Even Rate As A Nursery Rhyme

From 'The Grades' i come From Now...

And Actually

It Does

too

as i for

one Truly

Never Die Now

For i Fully BReaTHE WHoLE

Complete God No Different

Than the Space Between

A Cord of Wood Cut in Two...

And to be Clear, i Surely Don't Believe

In Accord And Tone of Many of the Words

Below Yet it is what it is If We Are Gonna Actually

Study Origins And Development of Christianity through the Ages;

The Vatican 2 From the Catholic Church Still Yet no Longer Requires

'The Actual Name of Jesus' For Folks to Be 'Saved' in Other Religions

And Countries As It Says the Essence of the Spirit (Love) Within is Same No

Matter the

Name

True

Coming

Out of Diapers

The Catholic Church

Gradually Does; Yet if they

Don't Put their 'Big Boy PantS on'

Soon; the Church Will Sink Even

Deeper into Abyss of Non-existence Next...

Thing Is, Information is No Longer Censored

The Way It used to Be; Lies Have No Where to

Hide Where And When Folks Drop Veils oF IGNoRaNCE

HAHa, Like Truly Honorable People won't See through Republican Sponsored Lies

At the Top of the Bottom Now; Clue: They will, They Do As 100 Percent of House Democrats
Are Vaccinated; That Empirical Measure Says A Lot when it comes to Saving Life Most Now FOR REAL

Compared

to Less than

50 Percent

on the Republican House

Side of Lies for Power, Status, And 'Stuff'...

In Broad Daylight, A Circus oF Lies for All to See Now Revealed;

Feels A Bit Like A Real Biblical Revelation Come True With SMiLes...

Humans Have Been Self-Fulfilling Prophecies of Their Stories Always Now...

As Yes

Now is

All That Exists

And Life too For
Those Who Truly Fully
BREaTHE Complete Enough Now.


I
Quote:
I: Coptic Gospel of Thomas


P) These are the secret sayings which the living Jesus spoke
and which Didymos Judas Thomas wrote down.

1) And He said, "Whoever finds the interpretation of these
sayings will not experience death."

2) Jesus said, "Let him who seeks continue seeking until he
finds. When he finds, he will become troubled. When he becomes
troubled, he will be astonished, and he will rule over the All."

3) Jesus said, "If those who lead you say, 'See, the Kingdom is
in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they
say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you.
Rather, the Kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and
you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living
Father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty
and it is you who are that poverty."

4) Jesus said, "The man old in days will not hesitate to ask a
small child seven days old about the place of life, and he will
live. For many who are first will become last, and they will
become one and the same."

5) Jesus said, "Recognize what is in your sight, and that which
is hidden from you will become plain to you. For there is nothing
hidden which will not become manifest."

6) His disciples questioned Him and said to Him, "Do you want
us to fast? How shall we pray? Shall we give alms? What diet
shall we observe?"
Jesus said, "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

7) Jesus said, "Blessed is the lion which becomes man when
consumed by man; and cursed is the man whom the lion consumes,
and the lion becomes man."

8) And He said, "The Kingdom is like a wise fisherman who cast
his
net into the sea and drew it up from the sea full of small fish.
Among them the wise fisherman found a fine large fish. He threw
all the small fish back into the sea and chose the large fish
without difficulty. Whoever has ears to hear, let him hear."

9) Jesus said, "Now the sower went out, took a handful (of
seeds), and scattered them. Some fell on the road; the birds came
and gathered them up. Others fell on the rock, did not take root
in the soil, and did not produce ears. And others fell on thorns;
they choked the seed(s) and worms ate them. And others fell on
the good soil and produced good fruit: it bore sixty per measure
and a hundred and twenty per measure."

10) Jesus said, "I have cast fire upon the world, and see, I am
guarding it until it blazes."

11) Jesus said, "This heaven will pass away, and the one above
it will pass away. The dead are not alive, and the living will
not die. In the days when you consumed what is dead, you made it
what is alive. When you come to dwell in the light, what will you
do? On the day when you were one you became two. But when you
become two, what will you do?"

12) The disciples said to Jesus, "We know that You will depart
from us. Who is to be our leader?"
Jesus said to them, "Wherever you are, you are to go to
James the righteous, for whose sake heaven and earth came into
being."

13) Jesus said to His disciples, "Compare me to someone and tell
Me whom I am like."
Simon Peter said to Him, "You are like a righteous angel."
Matthew said to Him, "You are like a wise philosopher."
Thomas said to Him, "Master, my mouth is wholly incapable of
saying whom You are like."
Jesus said, "I am not your master. Because you have drunk,
you have become intoxicated by the bubbling spring which I have
measured out."
And He took him and withdrew and told him three things. When
Thomas returned to his companions, they asked him, "What did
Jesus say to you?"
Thomas said to them, "If I tell you one of the things which
he told me, you will pick up stones and throw them at me; a fire
will come out of the stones and burn you up."

14) Jesus said to them, "If you fast, you will give rise to sin
for yourselves; and if you pray, you will be condemned; and if
you give alms, you will do harm to your spirits. When you go into
any land and walk about in the districts, if they receive you,
eat what they will set before you, and heal the sick among them.
For what goes into your mouth will not defile you, but that which
issues from your mouth - it is that which will defile you."

15) Jesus said, "When you see one who was not born of woman,
prostrate yourselves on your faces and worship him. That one is
your Father."

16) Jesus said, "Men think, perhaps, that it is peace which I
have come to cast upon the world. They do not know that it is
dissension which I have come to cast upon the earth: fire, sword,
and war. For there will be five in a house: three will be against
two, and two against three, the father against the son, and the
son against the father. And they will stand solitary."

17) Jesus said, "I shall give you what no eye has seen and what
no ear has heard and what no hand has touched and what has never
occurred to the human mind."

18) The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us how our end will be."
Jesus said, "Have you discovered, then, the beginning, that
you look for the end? For where the beginning is, there will the
end be. Blessed is he who will take his place in the beginning;
he will know the end and will not experience death."

19) Jesus said, "Blessed is he who came into being before he
came into being. If you become My disciples and listen to My
words, these stones will minister to you. For there are five
trees for you in Paradise which remain undisturbed summer and
winter and whose leaves do not fall. Whoever becomes acquainted
with them will not experience death."

20) The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us what the Kingdom of
Heaven is like."
He said to them, "It is like a mustard seed, the smallest of
all seeds. But when it falls on tilled soil, it produces a great
plant and becomes a shelter for birds of the sky."

21) Mary said to Jesus, "Whom are Your disciples like?"
He said, "They are like children who have settled in a field
which is not theirs. When the owners of the field come, they will
say, 'Let us have back our field.' They (will) undress in their
presence in order to let them have back their field and give it
back to them. Therefore I say to you, if the owner of a house
knows that the thief is coming, he will begin his vigil before he
comes and will not let him into his house of his domain to carry
away his goods. You, then, be on your guard against the world.
Arm yourselves with great strength lest the robbers find a way to
come to you, for the difficulty which you expect will (surely)
materialize. Let there be among you a man of understanding. When
the grain ripened, he came quickly with his sickle in his hand
and reaped it. Whoever has ears to hear, let him hear."

22) Jesus saw infants being suckled. He said to His disciples,
"These infants being suckled are like those who enter the
Kingdom."
They said to Him, "Shall we then, as children, enter the
Kingdom?"
Jesus said to them, "When you make the two one, and when you
make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside,
and the above like the below, and when you make the male and the
female one and the same, so that the male not be male nor the
female female; and when you fashion eyes in the place of an eye,
and a hand in place of a hand, and a foot in place of a foot, and
a likeness in place of a likeness; then will you enter [the
Kingdom]."

23) Jesus said, "I shall choose you, one out of a thousand, and
two out of ten thousand, and they shall stand as a single one."

24) His disciples said to Him, "Show us the place where You are,
since it is necessary for us to seek it."
He said to them, "Whoever has ears, let him hear. There is
light within a man of light, and he (or "it") lights up the whole
world. If he (or "it") does not shine, he (or "it") is darkness."

25) Jesus said, "Love your brother like your soul, guard him
like the pupil of your eye."

26) Jesus said, "You see the mote in your brothers eye, but you
do not see the beam in your own eye. When you cast the beam out
of your own eye, then you will see clearly to cast the mote from
your brother's eye."

27) <Jesus said,> "If you do not fast as regards the world, you
will not find the Kingdom. If you do not observe the Sabbath as a
Sabbath, you will not see the Father."

28) Jesus said, "I took my place in the midst of the world, and
I appeared to them in the flesh. I found all of them intoxicated;
I found none of them thirsty. And My soul became afflicted for
the sons of men, because they are blind in their hearts and do
not have sight; for empty they came into the world, and empty too
they seek to leave the world. But for the moment they are
intoxicated. When they shake off their wine, then they will
repent."

29) Jesus said, "If the flesh came into being because of spirit,
it is a wonder. But if spirit came into being because of the
body, it is a wonder of wonders. Indeed, I am amazed at how this
great wealth has made its home in this poverty."

30) Jesus said, "Where there are three gods, they are gods.
Where there are two or one, I am with him."

31) Jesus said, "No prophet is accepted in his own village; no
physician heals those who know him."
32) Jesus said, "A city being built on a high mountain and
fortified cannot fall, nor can it be hidden."

33) Jesus said, "Preach from your housetops that which you will
hear in your ear {(and) in the other ear}. For no one lights a
lamp and puts it under a bushel, nor does he put it in a hidden
place, but rather he sets it on a lampstand so that everyone who
enters and leaves will see its light."

34) Jesus said, "If a blind man leads a blind man, they will
both fall into a pit."

35) Jesus said, "It is not possible for anyone to enter the
house of a strong man and take it by force unless he binds his
hands; then he will (be able to) ransack his house."

36) Jesus said, "Do not be concerned from morning until evening
and from evening until morning about what you will wear."

37) His disciples said, "When will You become revealed to us and
when shall we see You?"
Jesus said, "When you disrobe without being ashamed and take
up your garments and place them under your feet like little
children and tread on them, then [will you see] the Son of the
Living One, and you will not be afraid"

38) Jesus said, "Many times have you desired to hear these words
which I am saying to you, and you have no one else to hear them
from. There will be days when you look for Me and will not find
Me."

39) Jesus said, "The Pharisees and the scribes have taken the
keys of Knowledge and hidden them. They themselves have not
entered, nor have they allowed to enter those who wish to. You,
however, be as wise as serpents and as innocent as doves."

40) Jesus said, "A grapevine has been planted outside of the
Father, but being unsound, it will be pulled up by its roots and
destroyed."

41) Jesus said, "Whoever has something in his hand will receive
more, and whoever has nothing will be deprived of even the little
he has."

42) Jesus said, "Become passers-by."

43) His disciples said to him, "Who are You, that You should say
these things to us?"
<Jesus said to them,> "You do not realize who I am from what
I say to you, but you have become like the Jews, for they
(either) love the tree and hate its fruit or love the fruit and
hate the tree."

44) Jesus said, "Whoever blasphemes against the Father will be
forgiven, and whoever blasphemes against the Son will be
forgiven, but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not
be forgiven either on earth or in heaven."

45) Jesus said, "Grapes are not harvested from thorns, nor are
figs gathered from thistles, for they do not produce fruit. A
good man brings forth good from his storehouse; an evil man
brings forth evil things from his evil storehouse, which is in
his heart, and says evil things. For out of the abundance of the
heart he brings forth evil things."

46) Jesus said, "Among those born of women, from Adam until John
the Baptist, there is no one so superior to John the Baptist that
his eyes should not be lowered (before him). Yet I have said
whichever one of you comes to be a child will be acquainted with
the Kingdom and will become superior to John."

47) Jesus said, "It is impossible for a man to mount two horses
or to stretch two bows. And it is impossible for a servant to
serve two masters; otherwise he will honor the one and treat the
other contemptuously. No man drinks old wine and immediately
desires to drink new wine. And new wine is not put into old
wineskins, lest they burst; nor is old wine put into a new
wineskin, lest it spoil it. An old patch is not sewn onto a new
garment, because a tear would result."

48) Jesus said, "If two make peace with each other in this one
house, they will say to the mountain, 'Move Away,' and it will
move away."

49) Jesus said, "Blessed are the solitary and elect, for you
will find the Kingdom. For you are from it, and to it you will
return."

50) Jesus said, "If they say to you, 'Where did you come from?',
say to them, 'We came from the light, the place where the light
came into being on its own accord and established [itself] and
became manifest through their image.' If they say to you, 'Is it
you?', say, 'We are its children, we are the elect of the Living
Father.' If they ask you, 'What is the sign of your father in
you?', say to them, 'It is movement and repose.'"

51) His disciples said to Him, "When will the repose of the dead
come about, and when will the new world come?"
He said to them, "What you look forward to has already come,
but you do not recognize it."

52) His disciples said to Him, "Twenty-four prophets spoke in
Israel, and all of them spoke in You."
He said to them, "You have omitted the one living in your
presence and have spoken (only) of the dead."

53) His disciples said to Him, "Is circumcision beneficial or
not?"
He said to them, "If it were beneficial, their father would
beget them already circumcised from their mother. Rather, the
true circumcision in spirit has become completely profitable."

54) Jesus said, "Blessed are the poor, for yours is the Kingdom
of Heaven."

55) Jesus said, "Whoever does not hate his father and his mother
cannot become a disciple to Me. And whoever does not hate his
brothers and sisters and take up his cross in My way will not be
worthy of Me."

56) Jesus said, "Whoever has come to understand the world has
found (only) a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior
to the world."

57) Jesus said, "The Kingdom of the Father is like a man who had
[good] seed. His enemy came by night and sowed weeds among the
good seed. The man did not allow them to pull up the weeds; he
said to them, 'I am afraid that you will go intending to pull up
the weeds and pull up the wheat along with them.' For on the day
of the harvest the weeds will be plainly visible, and they will
be pulled up and burned."

58) Jesus said, "Blessed is the man who has suffered and found
life."

59) Jesus said, "Take heed of the Living One while you are
alive, lest you die and seek to see Him and be unable to do so."

60) <They saw> a Samaritan carrying a lamb on his way to Judea.
He said to his disciples, "(Why does) that man (carry) the lamb
around?"
They said to him, "So that he may kill it and eat it."
He said to them, "While it is alive, he will not eat it, but
only when he has killed it and it has become a corpse."
They said to him, "He cannot do so otherwise."
He said to them, "You too, look for a place for yourself
within the Repose, lest you become a corpse and be eaten."

61) Jesus said, "Two will rest on a bed: the one will die, and
other will live."
Salome said to him, "Who are You, man, that You, as though
from the One, have come up on my couch and eaten from my table?"
Jesus said to her, "I am He who exists from the Undivided. I
was given some of the things of my Father."
<Salome said,> "I am Your disciple."
<Jesus said to her,> "Therefore I say, if he is <undivided>,
he will be filled with light, but if he is divided, he will be
filled with darkness."

62) Jesus said, "It is to those [who are worthy of My] mysteries
that I tell My mysteries. Do not let your left hand know what
your right hand is doing."
63) Jesus said, "There was a rich man who had much money. He
said, 'I shall put my money to use so that I may sow, reap,
plant, and fill my storehouse with produce, with the result that
I shall lack nothing. Such were his intentions, but that same
night he died. Let him who has ears hear."

64) Jesus said, "A man had received visitors. And when he had
prepared the dinner, he sent his servant to invite guests. He
went to the first one and said to him, "My master invites you.'
He said, 'I have claims against some merchants. They are coming
to me this evening. I must go and give them my orders. I ask to
be excused from the dinner.' He went to another and said, 'My
master has invited you.' He said to him, 'I have just bought a
house and am required for the day. I shall not have any spare
time.' He went to another and said to him, 'My master invites
you.' He said to him, 'My friend is going to get married, and I
am to prepare the banquet. I shall not be able to come. I ask to
be excused from the dinner.' He went to another and said to him,
'My master invites you.' He said to him, 'I have just bought a
farm, and I am on my way to collect the rent. I shall not be able
to come. I ask to be excused.' The servant returned and said to
his master, 'Those whom you invited to the dinner have asked to
be excused.' The master said to his servant, 'Go outside to the
streets and bring back those whom you happen to meet, so that
they may dine.' Businessmen and merchants will not enter the
Places of My Father."

65) He said, "There was a good man who owned a vineyard. He
leased it to tenant farmers so that they might work it and he
might collect the produce from them. He sent his servant so that
the tenants might give him the produce of the vineyard. They
seized his servant and beat him, all but killing him. The servant
went back and told his master. The master said, 'Perhaps <they>
did not recognize <him>.' He sent another servant. The tenants
beat this one as well. Then the owner sent his son and said,
'Perhaps they will show respect to my son.' Because the tenants
knew that it was he who was the heir to the vineyard, they seized
him and killed him. Let him who has ears hear."

66) Jesus said, "Show me the stone which the builders have
rejected. That one is the cornerstone."

67) Jesus said, "Whoever believes that the All itself is
deficient is (himself) completely deficient."

68) Jesus said, "Blessed are you when you are hated and
persecuted. Wherever you have been persecuted they will find no
Place."

69) Jesus said, "Blessed are they who have been persecuted
within themselves. It is they who have truly come to know the
Father. Blessed are the hungry, for the belly of him who desires
will be filled."

70) Jesus said, "If you bring forth what is within you, what you
bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is
within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you."

71) Jesus said, "I shall destroy [this] house, and no one will
be able to rebuild it."

72) [A man said] to Him, "Tell my brothers to divide my father's
possessions with me."
He said to him, "O man, who has made Me a divider?"
He turned to His disciples and said to them, "I am not a
divider, am I?"

73) Jesus said, "The harvest is great but the laborers are few.
Beseech the Lord, therefore, to send out laborers to the
harvest."

74) He said, "O Lord, there are many around the drinking trough,
but there is nothing in the cistern."

75) Jesus said, "Many are standing at the door, but it is the
solitary who will enter the bridal chamber."

76) Jesus said, "The kingdom of the Father is like a merchant
who had a consignment of merchandise and who discovered a pearl.
That merchant was shrewd. He sold the merchandise and bought the
pearl alone for himself. You too, seek his unfailing and enduring
treasure where no moth comes near to devour and no worm
destroys."

77) Jesus said, "It is I who am the light which is above them
all. It is I who am the All. From Me did the All come forth, and
unto Me did the All extend. Split a piece of wood, and I am
there. Lift up the stone, and you will find Me there."

78) Jesus said, "Why have you come out into the desert? To see a
reed shaken by the wind? And to see a man clothed in fine
garments like your kings and your great men? Upon them are the
fine [garments], and they are unable to discern the truth."

79) A woman from the crowd said to Him, "Blessed are the womb
which bore You and the breasts which nourished You."
He said to her, "Blessed are those who have heard the word
of the Father and have truly kept it. For there will be days when
you will say, 'Blessed are the womb which has not conceived and
the breasts which have not given milk.'"

80) Jesus said, "He who has recognized the world has found the
body, but he who has found the body is superior to the world."

81) Jesus said, "Let him who has grown rich be king, and let him
who possesses power renounce it."

82) Jesus said, "He who is near Me is near the fire, and he who
is far from Me is far from the Kingdom."

83) Jesus said, "The images are manifest to man, but the light
in them remains concealed in the image of the light of the
Father. He will become manifest, but his image will remain
concealed by his light."

84) Jesus said, "When you see your likeness, you rejoice. But
when you see your images which came into being before you, and
which neither die not become manifest, how much you will have to
bear!"

85) Jesus said, "Adam came into being from a great power and a
great wealth, but he did not become worthy of you. For had he
been worthy, [he would] not [have experienced] death."

86) Jesus said, "[The foxes have their holes] and the birds have
[their] nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head
and rest."

87) Jesus said, "Wretched is the body that is dependant upon a
body, and wretched is the soul that is dependent on these two."

88) Jesus said, "The angels and the prophets will come to you
and give you those things you (already) have. And you too, give
them those things which you have, and say to yourselves, 'When
will they come and take what is theirs?'"

89) Jesus said, "Why do you wash the outside of the cup? Do you
not realize that he who made he inside is the same one who made
the outside?"

90) Jesus said, "Come unto me, for My yoke is easy and My
lordship is mild, and you will find repose for yourselves."

91) They said to Him, "Tell us who You are so that we may
believe in You."
He said to them, "You read the face of the sky and of the
earth, but you have not recognized the one who is before you, and
you do not know how to read this moment."

92) Jesus said, "Seek and you will find. Yet, what you asked Me
about in former times and which I did not tell you then, now I do
desire to tell, but you do not enquire after it."

93) <Jesus said,> "Do not give what is holy to dogs, lest they
throw them on the dung-heap. Do not throw the pearls to swine,
lest they grind it [to bits]."

94) Jesus [said], "He who seeks will find, and [he who knocks]
will be let in."

95) [Jesus said,] "If you have money, do not lend it at
interest, but give [it] to one from whom you will not get it
back."

96) Jesus [said], "The Kingdom of the Father is like a certain
woman. She took a little leaven, [concealed] it in some dough,
and made it into large loaves. Let him who has ears hear."

97) Jesus said, "The Kingdom of the [Father] is like a certain
woman who was carrying a jar full of meal. While she was walking
[on] a road, still some distance from home, the handle of the jar
broke and the meal emptied out behind her on the road. She did
not realize it; she had noticed no accident. When she reached her
house, she set the jar down and found it empty."

98) Jesus said, "The Kingdom of the Father is like a certain man
who wanted to kill a powerful man. In his own house he drew his
sword and stuck it into the wall in order to find out whether his
hand could carry through. Then he slew the powerful man."

99) The disciples said to Him, "Your brothers and Your mother
are standing outside."
He said to them, "Those here who do the will of My Father
are My brothers and My mother. It is they who will enter the
Kingdom of My Father."

100) They showed Jesus a gold coin and said to Him, "Caesar's men
demand taxes from us."
He said to them, "Give Caesar what belongs to Caesar, give
God what belongs to God, and give Me what is Mine."

101) <Jesus said,> "Whoever does not hate his father and his
mother as I do cannot become a disciple to Me. And whoever does
[not] love his father and his mother as I do cannot become a
[disciple] to Me. For My mother [gave me falsehood], but [My]
true [Mother] gave me life."

102) Jesus said, "Woe to the Pharisees, for they are like a dog
sleeping in the manger of oxen, for neither does he eat nor does
he let the oxen eat."

103) Jesus said, "Fortunate is the man who knows where the
brigands will enter, so that he may get up, muster his domain,
and arm himself before they invade."

104) They said [to Jesus], "Come, let us pray today and let us
fast."
Jesus said, "What is the sin that I have committed, or
wherein have I been defeated? But when the bridegroom leaves the
bridal chamber, then let them fast and pray."

105) Jesus said, "He who knows the father and the mother will be
called the son of a harlot."

106) Jesus said, "When you make the two one, you will become the
sons of man, and when you say, 'Mountain, move away,' it will
move away."

107) Jesus said, "The Kingdom is like a shepherd who had a
hundred sheep. One of them, the largest, went astray. He left the
ninety-nine sheep and looked for that one until he found it. When
he had gone to such trouble, he said to the sheep, 'I care for
you more than the ninety-nine.'"

108) Jesus said, "He who will drink from my mouth will become
like Me. I myself shall become he, and the things that are hidden
will become revealed to him."

109) Jesus said, "The Kingdom is like a man who had a [hidden]
treasure in his field without knowing it. And [after] he died, he
left it to his son. The son did not know (about the treasure). He
inherited the field and sold [it]. And the one who bought it went
plowing and found the treasure. He began to lend money at
interest to whomever he wished."

110) Jesus said, "Whoever finds the world and becomes rich, let
him renounce the world."

111) Jesus said, "The heavens and the earth will be rolled up in
your presence. And one who lives from the Living One will not see
death." Does not Jesus say, "Whoever finds himself is superior to
the world?"

112) Jesus said, "Woe to the flesh that depends on the soul; woe
to the soul that depends on the flesh."

113) His disciples said to Him, "When will the Kingdom come?"
<Jesus said,> "It will not come by waiting for it. It will
not be a matter of saying 'Here it is' or 'There it is.' Rather,
the Kingdom of the Father is spread out upon the earth, and men
do not see it."

114) Simon Peter said to Him, "Let Mary leave us, for women are
not worthy of Life."
Jesus said, "I myself shall lead her in order to make her
male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you
males. For every woman who will make herself male will enter the
Kingdom of Heaven."


https://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/thomas.htm



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21 May 2021, 1:40 pm

Mountain Goat wrote:
thinkinginpictures wrote:
There seems to be a lot of debate over the resurrection of Jesus.
It seems like many Christians won't accept the possibilities of Jesus still being alive when cut down from the cross, or not resurrected at all.

It is said that the resurrection is proof of Jesus' divinity. And that his divinity is ultimately the proof that whatever Jesus taught during his lifetime, is correct.

But why the need for a divine Christ, which originally means The Annointed One (a title for a king)?

A king needs no divinity. He only needs followers to believe he is their leader.

Why the need for a super-human deity, when all you need to fulfill his wishes for humanity, can be achieved by mere actions in daily life, personal responsibilities like caring for the sick, elderly, disabled, poor and generally speaking - just be a good human?

Also, I doubt Jesus would've accepted everyone wearing a cross around their neck, or worshipping a cross in churches.

It would be like having a symbol of a gallow to worship, or wearing a syringe/needle as a symbol for Lethal Injection, around their neck...


Do yourself a study. Read the four different accounts (Mathew, Mark, Luke and John) of your Bible, and then go on to read Acts. (Mathew, Mark and Luke were written by those who were there, and John was written by gathering eye witness accounts of those who were there).

There are two possibilities. One is that the Bible is true and is completely true, and the other is that the Bible is false and completely false.

Read and then decide. :)


As already said in this thread, the gospel accounts were all written a hundred years or more after the actual events were supposed to have happened.

The Bible can have something true, and something that is false. If I write the following sentence:

"The universe consists of matter, and the Earth is flat" - the flat-earth part of my sentence is false, but that doesn't render the entire sentence false - the universe still consists of matter, regardless of anything else beyond that, which may be false.



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21 May 2021, 1:50 pm

Take it or leave it. Either the Bible is true and it is what it says it is, OR the whole lot is a lie. You choose. Picking and choosing little bits is only going to give you a false gospel which is useless.



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21 May 2021, 2:35 pm

Mountain Goat wrote:
Take it or leave it. Either the Bible is true and it is what it says it is, OR the whole lot is a lie. You choose. Picking and choosing little bits is only going to give you a false gospel which is useless.




No Truth Without Lies;

No Day Without Night;

No Light Without Dark;

Why All Three Sentences

Are Metaphor As Lie;

None Of These

Words

Relate

Full Essence of

What i am Speaking of Now;

Truth And Lies; Dark and Light;

Night And Day Baby These Are

Just Words, If Ya Wanna Get All

Black And White; All Words All Metaphors

Are Lies; And In Fact, Since Neuroscience

Shows We Basically Hallucinate Our Realities

As We Go Based on Realities We Co-Create By

Hallucinating Experiences Before; Everything You

See is A

Lie

This

Way

And

That's The

Cold Hard Facts

Of How We All

Paint Our

Spirit

Winds

Our

Souls Our

HeARTS Of Existence
As Is NoW Eternally Changing

Waves; Yet Still Water Ocean Whole Same;

So Yeah, You Are Both Right And Wrong too;

It All Depends on What We May Mutually And

Consensually Agree On What Reality is Now;

Yet It Doesn't Change the

Fact That We

All See Reality

Different; The Reality

We All Co-Create Now;

Get A Paint Brush And Some

Paint And BeCoME A Greater Master Peace Painting

of Existence in Colors Never Seen Before;

Or Sure, Stay in A Cave Where What's

Painted On the Wall Stays the

Same And is Only

Seen Different

By You As Now

Eternally Changes More;

At Least You Exist That

Much is True for You At Least...

And So Do Writings of Folks Thousands

Of Years Ago And Today too; Whatever Works, Works;

Whatever You Feel and Sense NoW As Deep As It Comes,

Or Shallow, Makes for the Depth of Eternity Now Shallower or Deeper...

Just

For
What

i See Of Course...

Other than that The Bible

AS Whole IS A Psychopathic

Leaning Example Still of What

Humans At Worst Comes to Be

As Fully Illustrated Below For Real Still....

Psalm 137:9

New King James Version:

"Happy the one who takes
and dashes Your little ones against the rock!"

If 'God' Were to Try That With my 'Little one', i'd Kick 'His Butt'.... See i'm Just Human i'm 'God' too...

'He' Wouldn't Have Another Cheek to Turn to Get Out of the way of my Mountain Moving Feet...

Only A 'Real Fool' Would Believe Anything Associated With Love Said the Words Above, If God Is Love at Least..

Or Believe
In Lies of
'Trump'

Same

Damned Author

Only The Actors Change...

And It's No Different than the

Part of Matthew That Says Jesus

Will Change Sheep of Humans who

Do Not Clothe the Poor into Goats

And Burn them Forever for Not Being Nice...

Now Still That Has Nothing to Do With Love or

Forgiving; Only Humans Writing Psychopathic

Leaning Stories; Cold Dead Hands of Fear And Hate; It's True Humans Do MAKE Believe...

So Why Do Folks Call This Stuff Perfect; Simply Put; They Are Afraid of Becoming God (Love) And Not

Having

Anyone

To Blame For

DarK iN Losses

of Life Yet Still

DarK

Creates

LiGHT

Greatest (Love)

LiGHT Still Comes

From Dark For Those

Who Are Brave Enough to Be God (Love) Now For Real...

By 'The Way', 'He' Wouldn't Do Anything to 'my Little One'

in the First Place, Wouldn't Have to Kick 'His' Butt At All

For You See Now, i've Really Been to Hell; All I'd Have

to Do Is Ask 'Him', If "He's" Ever Danced With The Devil

In the Pale Moon Light"; Wouldn't Have Anything to Do

With the Words; Just The Presence of my Energy in 'the Room'; Works so far at least.. Hehe...

You Wanna Really Know What Makes Folks Weak: Lies; Truth Never Ends Like Light Always Starts Yes Love...



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21 May 2021, 3:33 pm

Mountain Goat wrote:
Take it or leave it. Either the Bible is true and it is what it says it is, OR the whole lot is a lie. You choose. Picking and choosing little bits is only going to give you a false gospel which is useless.


Everything in life is picking and choosing. The Bible is no different.

I also read different books. I don't read just one book and claim "This is enough knowledge". No, I want it not only from more specific details on specific topics, I also want it from different points of view.

The Bible itself is full of different points of view of the same events. And it's not the whole story, because the Bible - both the Old and New Testament, has undergone massive censorship, with different versions of the same Bible translated in different ways, because those translating the Bible from Hebrew to Greek and from Greek to Latin and from Latin to English - are picking and choosing.

Why should I treat the Bible any different?



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21 May 2021, 4:22 pm

What is the reason for this thread?



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21 May 2021, 5:43 pm

Born into Sin . implifies a person is of sin by default . earliest form of Gaslighting known to Civilisation . 8O



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22 May 2021, 1:26 am

Mountain Goat wrote:
What is the reason for this thread?


I'm trying to understand the motivations people have placing their brain in the parking lot, when attending a church service...

I mean, why not question religious doctrines, like we question scientific findings?



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22 May 2021, 3:33 am

Some of that is why I am a satanist. I tried to ask questions like that when I was made to go to sunday school and well of course they did not like those questions being asked. So it would just get dismissed so even at a sort of early age I wondered if maybe that was all wrong and I should be talking to the devil instead...


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22 May 2021, 4:27 am

It helps if one has had a spiritual encounter with God.

For some who go out of tradition... Well, to be honest that also puzzles me, as there was a lady from our village who went to the same chapel (Church) every Sunday from when she was a baby right through to her 90's. When she was around 93 years old, my Mum was chatting to her about it and she said she didn't believe in God. This really, really puzzled me and my mother why she went to church for all those years if she did not believe. What is the point?

I am not against going to church. I am not against believing. I want people to believe like I believe. I can't force anyone to believe because that is a very personal thing. All I am is a signpost pointing the way and it is up to the individual if they take notice and head in the direction that I point. But I am really puzzled why someone who does not believe would continue going to church, because to me it not only is a waste of time for them, but it wastes the time of the church leaders and others.
Now I fully understand someone who is looking going to church. Someone who is trying to find out what it is about because they know there is something, but they are not sure what the something they are looking for actually is. I understand that. Someone with an open mind. Yes. I fully understand that. But I do not understand someone who is convinced that God does not exist faithfully going to church every sunday without fail. What are they doing with their life?

To be a Christian has nothing to do with going to church... Church is like a spiritual boot camp to a soldier in a spiritual army. If one is in a spiritually alive church, it is where one learns about the spiritual tools in which one uses to be effective in spiritual battle. Dead churches do not do this. They preach "Well actually it does not mean this... It means that...." which totally nullifies the spiriutal concepts behind the Word Of God and renders it ineffective and useless. I have seen highly intelligent bible schollars where their entire lives have been devoted to study and teach the Bible who have completely missed the point and they have missed out the spiritual side of the Word of God.
Their teachings are usually way off and they alter the meanings and miss out on the spiritual meanings the words have.
God has kept it from them. Jesus taught in parables as they are easy to understand spiritual concepts and principles. If one alters the words He preached, to mean something different they become lifeless and dead.
I have never read another book that has this three dimentional element to it that works in the same way.



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22 May 2021, 10:06 am

It is all coming out now. This thread was started with the motive of bullying Christians and attacking their beliefs. The questions asked were never about wanting to know more. It is all about launching an attack on Christians.

Now I know where I stand. Please make this clear in future threads so I and others don't waste out time.



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22 May 2021, 10:46 am

 ! Cornflake wrote:
.
A reminder to all posters - while this topic is a valid discussion point, expanding it into any type of criticism or attack of any believer will not be tolerated.
.


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