Resurrection of Jesus - or not - why does it matter?

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aghogday
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22 May 2021, 11:11 am





All Hail to Breathe The Real King/Queen is The Love We Breathe

Anything Less is Living Dead For Real

(For NoW iN Short, {i Wear Shorts
And LeSS iN Nature} Folks Go to
Church, For A Communion
Of Love With One Another)

Now For A Longer Version:

"Love One Another",

Is This Such A Foreign

Command And Teaching to 'Us'

That We Don't Understand that "When

Two or More of Us Come Together in Love"

"God Is Love" is In the Room As Spirit, Soul, Heart Whole Now

Yes, Yes, Yes,

This is WHAT

'REAL HUMANS' STILL
DO, WHETHER IT BE IN

NATURE OR CHURCH CLOTHED

AND NAKED TOO They Gather Together

In A Communion of Love And Enjoy God Is Love

That And This Way, How Ever They Frigging Choose;

No Matter What Body Part Touches What; True, We Will

Even Transform A Soul of LoVE iNto Free Verse Poetry (At LEAST, i Will, Yes Still Now Writing All 9.3 MiLLioN

Words in 93 Months As Even John 14:12, Directly Authorizes me to Write A Bible Of Poetry Greater than

Jesus; it's Not Hard to Do, Considering He Was Illiterate Aramaic, And Never Wrote A Word; Yes, i Share

It With An Entire Globe; Giving, Caring, Free, Fitting All 243 Pounds of Up to 1520 Pounds of

Leg Pressing Muscle, Still, At The Speed oF LiGHT iN A Fiber Optic Cable, Soul Included
Free of Charge, Still Close to Age 61, Born With "The 3 Dreaded 6's on 6.6.60" God Yes
By Walmart Fundie Cashiers When They Carded me for An Occasional Beer in my 40's

Like The Audience Still Does For me to Prove i am Pushing 61 Still on 6.6.21 Floating

Like A Butterfly in Dance

Halls And In Public

Alike Now For

14,896 Miles

In Almost 93 Months

(Only As Printed
on my Driver's

License,

IT's Really
6.6.1960)

That Some

'Real Fools'

Still Believe

In More Than FrigginG LoVE (GoD)...

My God, Even Dogs, God Spelled in Reverse

For Real As God Love Now Too; They LoVE iN Packs

And Truly In This Way Dogs Are Even Love Smarter

Than Humans Who Don't Understand God Really Is

Love; It's No Secret, Even a Child of 7 Days Will Tell

Us All We Need to Know, Suckling Mother's

Breast With A Contented Smile...

People 'Think' Way too Frigging

Much; Just

Smile;

IT

Won't Break God...

Other than That

Regarding Matthew,

Be Careful About Being 'A Goat' in the Bible

If We Believe in What That Book Says At Least

In Parables; At Best We Do NOT Take Parables Literal; They ARE All Metaphor

Just Like the Rest oF ALL Words, Always VieWeD DiffeRently By Each Pair of God EYes Human....

Yet Here's A Final REAL

Deal; GroW iT (LoVE)

Take it

Or Leave IT

If It is Truly

Real In Our

Life We Will

Love One

Another...

God Is Love;

It's No Joke; God Is Love...!

'Just Do It!' iN Victory; It's the Only Teaching
of Jesus That Even Counts FOR REAL NOW!

Unless He is a Liar; The Bad Cop Version; The

Gas-lit 'Trump Version', Who Turns Folks Who Are Not Nice Sheep

Into Goats; Yes, The Matthew Version WHO IS NOT ALL FORGIVING

LOVING; THE REAL ANTI-CHRIST IN THE BIBLE BOOK REVEALED FOR

ALL TO SEE WHO PROMISES HE WILL FiRE HIS ENEMIES FOREVER TO TORTURE THEM NOW.....

Yet it's

True,

Some

(So-Called

Christians) Who

We Are Supposed

To Know, Feel,

And Sense

By Their

Love Still
Believe in 'Trump' too...

Fail, THEY FAIL THE LiTMUS TEST NoW; THEY FAIL!

YET guess what! i sure ain't gonna be the one to Send them to Hell;

Already Been; That's Where We Really Learn to BE A Real 'JeSuS' Now;

We Learn to Forgive

The Devil

Or We

Never Get Out

to the 'Luke 17:21' REAL HEAVEN NOW

Part; the Kingdom of God Love Within

Once Again to Give, Share, Caring Freely

With All Others With Least Harm Now;

THiS Ain't Rocket Science Baby!

Just ReMeMBeR

That Contented

Look of the 7 Day

Old Baby Suckling

Mama's Breast And Return

Home to God Is Love; Yes! Mama is God!

'Jesus' is the Myth We Make Real As Men; Every Loving Woman is Truly Mary As Myth For Real;

Like i Said (Ahem, Like They Said) in the end of the beginning All Will Be RevealinG LoVE Now



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funeralxempire
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22 May 2021, 11:43 am

Mountain Goat wrote:
It is all coming out now. This thread was started with the motive of bullying Christians and attacking their beliefs. The questions asked were never about wanting to know more. It is all about launching an attack on Christians.

Now I know where I stand. Please make this clear in future threads so I and others don't waste out time.


Most Christians reject the sort of literalism that you've described supporting, are those Christians also attacking Christianity when they question if every word should be understood literally?


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thinkinginpictures
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22 May 2021, 12:54 pm

Mountain Goat wrote:
It is all coming out now. This thread was started with the motive of bullying Christians and attacking their beliefs. The questions asked were never about wanting to know more. It is all about launching an attack on Christians.

Now I know where I stand. Please make this clear in future threads so I and others don't waste out time.


I'm attacking a belief-system/ideology based on acceptance of someone sacrificing their own children.
It's sickening.

You talk about bullying, but what do you call an ideology which is based solely on acceptance of someone (God) sending his own son (Jesus) to be tortured and executed in the most cruel way ever possible, by slowly suffocating for several hours/days?

Then YOU move on to attacking those Christians who do not buy into YOUR understanding of the Bible, claiming there is only one version of Christianity (while in-fact, there's a lot - you completely ignore all the Gnostic Christians as well as the Atheist Christians - whom are Christians as well as being Atheist, they just don't buy into the resurrection story or supernatural explanations).

If that's not bullying, then I don't know what is bullying...



magz
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22 May 2021, 1:05 pm

 ! magz wrote:
Please, refrain from accusations of bullying - they border personal attacks.

Belief systems are hard to discuss but please, do your best to stay civil.


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ezbzbfcg2
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24 May 2021, 3:28 am

Those who feel their beliefs might be offended are best not participating in this thread. Don't know why two different mods felt the need to issue warnings when discussing beliefs. Can we not question each other?

Now to the OP:

thinkinginpictures wrote:
I'm attacking a belief-system/ideology based on acceptance of someone sacrificing their own children.
It's sickening.

You talk about bullying, but what do you call an ideology which is based solely on acceptance of someone (God) sending his own son (Jesus) to be tortured and executed in the most cruel way ever possible, by slowly suffocating for several hours/days?


It may sound strange to you, but that's the whole point of the religion. Christ isn't simply a teacher, but had such a love for humanity that he willingly died for their sins. Without death and ressurrection, he's just some prophet preaching on the street corner. Whether he was real or not (or was crucified of not) isn't the point. The mythology surrounds itself with Christ willingly choosing to suffer and die for the sins of humanity.

If this belief offends you, that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion. But I feel you missed the whole point of the religion in the first place.



kitesandtrainsandcats
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24 May 2021, 7:06 am

ezbzbfcg2 wrote:
Those who feel their beliefs might be offended are best not participating in this thread. Don't know why two different mods felt the need to issue warnings when discussing beliefs. Can we not question each other?

Now to the OP:

thinkinginpictures wrote:
I'm attacking a belief-system/ideology based on acceptance of someone sacrificing their own children.
It's sickening.

You talk about bullying, but what do you call an ideology which is based solely on acceptance of someone (God) sending his own son (Jesus) to be tortured and executed in the most cruel way ever possible, by slowly suffocating for several hours/days?


It may sound strange to you, but that's the whole point of the religion. Christ isn't simply a teacher, but had such a love for humanity that he willingly died for their sins. Without death and ressurrection, he's just some prophet preaching on the street corner. Whether he was real or not (or was crucified of not) isn't the point. The mythology surrounds itself with Christ willingly choosing to suffer and die for the sins of humanity.

If this belief offends you, that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion. But I feel you missed the whole point of the religion in the first place.


Grr, this thing did the dysfunctional captcha and lost part of what I had typed, a significant part.
:(
And thanks to having copied it in to notepad before clicking post,

There it is, that indeed is the point.
Although I would call it the point of the faith instead of using the word religion.
The crucifixion and death was to pay the penalty of human insurrection against God, that being the penalty of eternal death for sin against the eternal God.
The resurrection of Jesus was to show that the penalty had been paid and death was now conquered.
Accepting that Jesus took your penalty upon himself and paid it for you, putting your faith in him, gives you his righteousness and gives you entry in to eternal life.

A question which comes up is whether this new thing, the belief in Christ Jesus, which was seen as a threat to the personal power of the then-current religious leaders, could have been stopped in its tracks by those leaders simply producing the body of Jesus, and if so, why didn't they.

Seriously, who's got the body?

If there is a dead body of Jesus Christ it must be definition be somewhere.
So why not produce it and put an end to the farce?

The account of his burial says a Roman soldier platoon was guarding the grave at the request of the religious leaders who had wanted the Romans to crucify Jesus, so it ain't like his disciple came and stole his body out from under the noses of a platoon of guys who had no qualms about killing anyone who stepped out of line.

The concept of the Trinity is also wrapped up in the life of Jesus, the crucifixion, the resurrection. And that is that the infinite eternal omniscient omnipotent God is one God who is manifested in three persons, God, Jesus, Holy Spirit; they are at the same time both three individuals and a singular God. How that can be is a great mystery to us finite humans.
That being the case, God sacrificed both his son AND himself on the cross.
Say what?
How does that work?
Dunno, it is outside the manner of existence we humans can experience.

Okay, so, there is the question of why was the sacrifice needed?

It was needed because at some point in history early humans basically committed an insurrection and sold their title to this Earth to an opponent of God after buying in to that opponent's lie and doing precisely what God had instructed them not to do.
That lead to the entire material world and the psychological world being poisoned by evil, in a word, sin.
From that point on everything coming out of that poisoned world would itself be poisoned.

God is infinite in existence, meaning he is also infinity pure and infinitely holy.
Poisoned sinful humans can not come before him, cannot exist in the face of infinite holiness.

Because of the sin and insurrection of humans, and because God is infinitely just, that justice demands those crimes be punished.

Because God is infinitely loving and infinitely merciful, love and mercy demanded action be taken to both satisfy that justice and at the same time give hope and life to humanity.

But being infinite, and omniscient, God had already known before this material world even existed that that would happen and known what he would do about it.

The following in Genesis 3 prophesies the birth of Jesus and his crucifixion,

"15And I will put enmity between you and the woman,
and between your seed and her seed.
He will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.” "

With the crucifixion the accuser bruised Jesus heel.
With the crucifixion and resurrection Jesus crushed the head of the accuser and the evil and death which the accuser had caused to enter this world.

Being miraculously virgin-born Jesus is the seed of the woman, and of the woman only, there was no human man involved in his coming to be in this world.
And it also meant Jesus could be born free of the poison of sin since he was not conceived in sin even though his mother Mary was born in sin and therefore herself needing salvation from sin.

So, Jesus, in another mystery beyond the experience of our human existence, became BOTH God and human.
And a human who was free of sin.
Because,
In order to be the sacrifice who covers the sins of humanity he himself had to be sinless.

And Jesus was not forced in to doing that. He came willingly with that goal his purpose.
Even so, in his humanity, the thing stressed him.
Yet in his divinity he was willing and most importantly, able, to do that, to be that.

So, because he chose to set aside his glory in heaven for a time and come here and live life as a human,
And because he sacrificed his life,
And because he rose from the dead to new life AND returned to heaven and his full divinity,
All we humans have to do is accept him and what he accomplished for us,
And we are given eternal life instead of eternal death.
That's it.
That's all it takes to have eternal life.
Yes, the 'default setting' is eternal death, but eternal life is free for the taking if you accept Christ.
So, choose eternal life instead.

(and as it happens, that eternal life is not going to be lounging about on clouds playing harps, the word is "rule and reign with Christ" which by definition means doing and accomplishing things)
(also, as it happens, 'the devil' is not some horned and tailed red-colored dude, before he fell he was a bright and beautiful guardian of the throne of God)

Okay, but what about people who lived before he did that?

You will find that the Jewish scriptures speak of people who believed God and it was credited to them as righteousness.

If seeking other than the Bible for documentation whether Jesus existed, this may be of interest,
https://www.bethinking.org/jesus/ancien ... an-sources

That was quite a lot of typing and now my hands are hurting bigtime.


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kitesandtrainsandcats
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24 May 2021, 7:26 am

thinkinginpictures wrote:
It seems like many Christians won't accept the possibilities of Jesus still being alive when cut down from the cross,


Well, let's see what some non-Christian news outlets report about that,

Quote:
Crucifixion remains a familiar idea, even though it's a punishment from the distant past. It's so familiar that we no longer consider of the physical realities of it. Those realities are some of the most gruesome ever known. Here's how crucifixion actually kills people.

https://io9.gizmodo.com/this-is-the-hor ... 1477804826


Quote:
To investigate crucifixion (without actually killing anybody), German researchers tied volunteers by their wrists to a cross and then monitored their respiratory and cardiovascular activity in the 1960s. Within 6 minutes, the volunteers had trouble breathing, their pulse rates had doubled, and their blood pressure had plummeted, according to the 1963 study in the journal Berlin Medicine (Berliner Medizin). The experiment had to be stopped after about 30 minutes, because of wrist pain.

That said, victims could have died from various causes, including multiple-organ failure and respiratory failure, Retief and Cilliers wrote. Given the pain and suffering entailed, it's no wonder that crucifixion spawned the word "excruciating," which means "out of the cross."

https://www.livescience.com/65283-cruci ... story.html


Quote:
Once the Romans began physical torture, they inflicted a slow death with maximum pain, just as the film depicts. “They would first scourge an individual with a whip to open up flesh wounds and then continue to opening the sores,” says Dery. “The idea was to get them to bleed as much as possible so that later they would be lightheaded and dizzy and more likely to pass out.”

The kind of repeated, deep scourging, with jagged pieces of metal on the whips that tore through flesh and muscle, was meant to weaken the individual.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshi ... crucified/


Quote:
South African Medical Journal
. 2003 Dec;93(12):938-41.
The history and pathology of crucifixion
F P Retief 1 , L Cilliers
Affiliations

PMID: 14750495

Abstract

In antiquity crucifixion was considered one of the most brutal and shameful modes of death. Probably originating with the Assyrians and Babylonians, it was used systematically by the Persians in the 6th century BC. Alexander the Great brought it from there to the eastern Mediterranean countries in the 4th century BC, and the Phoenicians introduced it to Rome in the 3rd century BC. It was virtually never used in pre-Hellenic Greece. The Romans perfected crucifion for 500 years until it was abolished by Constantine I in the 4th century AD. Crucifixion in Roman times was applied mostly to slaves, disgraced soldiers, Christians and foreigners--only very rarely to Roman citizens. Death, usually after 6 hours--4 days, was due to multifactorial pathology: after-effects of compulsory scourging and maiming, haemorrhage and dehydration causing hypovolaemic shock and pain, but the most important factor was progressive asphyxia caused by impairment of respiratory movement. Resultant anoxaemia exaggerated hypovolaemic shock. Death was probably commonly precipitated by cardiac arrest, caused by vasovagal reflexes, initiated inter alia by severe anoxaemia, severe pain, body blows and breaking of the large bones. The attending Roman guards could only leave the site after the victim had died, and were known to precipitate death by means of deliberate fracturing of the tibia and/or fibula, spear stab wounds into the heart, sharp blows to the front of the chest, or a smoking fire built at the foot of the cross to asphyxiate the victim.

Similar articles ...

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14750495/


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24 May 2021, 8:08 am

ezbzbfcg2 wrote:
Don't know why two different mods felt the need to issue warnings when discussing beliefs. Can we not question each other?
Two responses for different reasons at different times - which should serve as an indication of how carefully this topic must be handled.


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24 May 2021, 11:25 am



"They" Say, Pictures Tell A Thousand WordS; iN the Case of 'Two Polaroids' Below Capturing

The Memory of January 6th, 'Tales' the 'True Detective' Story, Why the Myth of Jesus Being

Resurrected From the Dead After Being Crucified Still Comes; Which by the Way IS NOT THE

WORST TORTURE known to Humankind as My Mother Tried to Convince me, Buying A Book

On the Crucifixion of Jesus

in 2008, Opening a Random

Page of the Book, She Just Purchased,

Reading It Aloud Having to Say True

The Words that the Only Worse Torture

Known to Humankind Now is 'Trigeminal

Neuralgia'; Nah, i Did not Get Away With Sporadic

HeLL ON Earth Torture; i Was 'Gifted' with 'Type

Two Trigeminal Neuralgia' Like A Dentist Drill in my

Right Eye and Ear No Drug Would Touch From Wake to Sleep

For 66 Whole Months; When it comes to Heaven and Hell

Wagging Contests; Not At All THAT 'Impressed' Now By the Story

Of Jesus Suffering Then or the Little of What He Was Reported

To Parable About Heaven Within Eternally Now; Unfortunately,

Second Hand Reports of Heaven and Hell, Typically Are Not Worthy;

Or Even Close to worthy of the Actual Experience of Within; No Way to

Describe it Without Poetry Attempting to Touch What is 'Normally' Ineffable

Per Standard

Ways of

Using Prim

And Proper

Bowing and
Kneeling 'Queen's English' As Such

Or What's Left in Copied And Pasted

Scripts Over Thousands of Years in

A Rather Minuscule 800,000 or so Words

Book by Innumerable Ghost Authors With

(Plus, So Many Centuries of Scribes Penning Copy
Mistakes And Intentionally Making Changes too)

Famous Pen Names Like Luke, Mark, John, And

Matthew; And Folks Falling On Their Heads on Dusty

Old Roads to Damascus Like Saul the Paul Having Visions

And MaKinG That Gospel 'Truth' for Ages, So the Roman Empire And

Others At Least Will Have A 'Good Start' Building Empires over Binds and

Bonds of Religion/Myths that Keep the Commoners All Together In Glue so they

Will be Willing to Sacrifice Their Lives as such for Whatever Cause Kingdoms relate next...

Now, Oh Yeah, SpeaKinG of That the Two Photos Again in Polaroid Way of CNN Below...

Jesus Was Resurrected From the Dead in a Story As 'Loving One Another' Is Not

Enough to Subjugate, Control, And Master Subjects of Politics And Kingdom's Come

Still in 'Trump Ways' Now; The Blood of Many Are on the Hands of this Story Used

For Politics throughout the Ages for Power, Status, And Material Gains of Kingdom Come

Political Kings And Or Queens to Remain in Power And Use Commoners Like Little Puppets on strings...

Love is Real...

The Resurrection

Of Jesus And Even THE WORD GOD ALONE is 'the Straw Man'

STILL NOW Used For Political Rule For Thousands of Years Now...

Naked Love is Enough; Yet it Does Not Keep People in Power Only Love....

Yet on the Other Hand for the Meek; For the Last As First Love is the Greatest

Power AS Heaven and Hell Begins and Ends Always Starts Within Now As the

Only Reality is Our Experiences of Life Now; the rest of it basically is a 'Straw

Man' And

the 'Resurrection

of Jesus' Is No Better

Or Worse than All the

Other Straw Men Humans

Create to Forget They are Love...

It's really Sad and so Damned ironic...

YET It's true in Cause and Effect the

Myth of the Resurrection Is A Potentially

Very Dangerous Tool Used to Harm, Enslave, And Kill Others;

Handle With Care or Don't Handle At All; Handle With Ignorance And Fall

to '5th Avenue Bad Muse'...

Bottom Lines

Love is

Enough

And what

is Below is

(The 2 Pics)

As Anti-Christ

As Love Gets if Love is 'Christ'...

Nah, The Pictures Do Not Lie...

It's just Plain Sick and Out of Human Balance...

The Myth of Jesus Is Powerful Enough for Love or Destruction Obviously

As That Much of the Revelation of the Book Continues to Come Humanly True for Real Now...

And For those Who Laugh at Religion And Ignore it; Ya Better get to Know the Real 'DEViL' in the Room too...

Both

Versions

Are in that

Old 'Cook Book'.... Still Now...

And Other Than That Hehe Even

'Scientists' Have Religion They Even

Had A Big Convention For it Last Weekend

Called 'Pensacon' in Pensacola, Florida Yes

Science Fiction is Religion For 'Scientist Type Minds'

At Core We All Wanna Create A Most Colorful Life of Dreamtime Now

Most All

of

us at
least Hehe...

True, 'Stars Wars'

Is So Much Better

Than that Old Dusty

Book Yet i'm More into

Pictures; Not Much of a Word Person am i;

Believe IT or Not 'Ripley and Horatio', Hehe

As It's Worth Noting Words Are Only Pictures We Create That Are Not 'Essence'

Either; Again In this Way, All Words Are 'Straw Men' HAhA, Might As WELL Make 'em EPiCaLLY Fun...

Thumbs Down

On Most

of the

Old Bible;

There Isn't

Even Any Humor;

True Sign that Mostly

'Trump-Like' Folks Were in Charge oF it...

Cold Dead Living Hands (Souls) of Popes and Trumps As Such...

This is what Ya Do to Master Folks in Socio-Economic Scarcity; 'Misery Loves Company''

Gotta Get

Out and

About

Out

of the Desert Some Days...

i For One Do; Valley Mountain Same High..:)

Image

Image



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24 May 2021, 11:45 am

Mountain Goat wrote:
There are two possibilities. One is that the Bible is true and is completely true, and the other is that the Bible is false and completely false.

Read and then decide. :)

Mountain Goat wrote:
Take it or leave it. Either the Bible is true and it is what it says it is, OR the whole lot is a lie. You choose. Picking and choosing little bits is only going to give you a false gospel which is useless.

If you insist, that could make it easy. I expect you know the Bible. Is it true that the genealogies of Jesus given in two different gospels contradict each other? There is also the bit about pi = 3. If one statement being false means the whole thing is a lie, then there is your answer: it is a lie.

On the other hand, if you don't follow all the rules laid down in Leviticus and elsewhere, like keeping kosher, then you pick and choose. Do you eat bacon? Do you switch on lights or take a flight on the Sabbath? If you do, you are not consistent in applying the standard that if one part is false, then all of it is.



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24 May 2021, 12:59 pm

Gromit wrote:
On the other hand, if you don't follow all the rules laid down in Leviticus and elsewhere, like keeping kosher, then you pick and choose. Do you eat bacon? Do you switch on lights or take a flight on the Sabbath? If you do, you are not consistent in applying the standard that if one part is false, then all of it is.

The laws laid down in Leviticus and elsewhere were a variety of civil, moral, ceremonial, and religious laws directed specifically at the Hebrews/Israelites/Jews. We gentiles have never been bound by the religious and ceremonial laws unless we desired to become Jewish, and that is covered in the books of the Law.
Those civil, ceremonial, and religious, laws at that time were to clearly differentiate God's chosen people from the rest of the peoples of the world.
The moral laws do apply to humanity as a whole.

As for eating, the Apostle Paul writes the following to the Romans, https://biblehub.com/romans/14.htm
Paul, formerly known by Saul is an interesting case, he was a Jewish leader who was persecuting the Christians until the resurrected Jesus personally got in his face and said, paraphrased a little bit, "Ya know what, you are now done doing that, from here on out you work for me."

Quote:
The Law of Liberty
(Matthew 7:1–6; Luke 6:37–42)

1Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on his opinions.a 2For one person has faith to eat all things, while another, who is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The one who eats everything must not belittle the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

5One person regards a certain day above the others, while someone else considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who observes a special day does so to the Lord;b he who eats does so to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God.

7For none of us lives to himself alone, and none of us dies to himself alone. 8If we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9For this reason Christ died and returned to life, that He might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

10Why, then, do you judge your brother? Or why do you belittle your brother? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11It is written:

“As surely as I live,
says the Lord,
every knee will bow before Me;
every tongue will confess to God.”c
12So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.


And then there is a thing which happened to the Apostle Peter, https://biblehub.com/acts/10.htm
This is taken to be both about eating and about taking the Gospel to the Gentiles who ate those things.
Quote:
Peter’s Vision
(Leviticus 11:1–47; Deuteronomy 14:1–21)

9The next day at about the sixth hour,c as the men were approaching the city on their journey, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10He became hungry and wanted something to eat, but while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance.

11He saw heaven open and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12It contained all kinds of four-footed animals and reptiles of the earth, as well as birds of the air. 13Then a voice said to him: “Get up, Peter, kill and eat!”

14“No, Lord!” Peter answered. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”

15The voice spoke to him a second time: “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”

16This happened three times, and all at once the sheet was taken back up into heaven.


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kitesandtrainsandcats
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24 May 2021, 1:16 pm

Gromit wrote:
Is it true that the genealogies of Jesus given in two different gospels contradict each other?


Edit: eh, I need to go look some more when my awareness is better.
Thanks to these endocrine and mitochondrial disease I'm a bit foggy this afternoon and it is all starting to look the same, even contradictory sources.

Anyway, the academics have debates on the geneology thing,
https://zondervanacademic.com/blog/why- ... -different

See also: https://shepherds.edu/the-genealogies-of-jesus/

Quote:
A much stronger case can be made for the approach that acknowledges Matthew’s genealogy as that of Joseph, but argues that in Luke we have the genealogy of Jesus’ physical mother, Mary. Three points are telling in defense of this approach. First, the name “Joseph” in Luke 3:23 is the only name in the list without the definite article. (Each name In Matthew’s genealogy also has the article.) This is compelling evidence that this name ought not be read as part of Luke’s genealogical list; rather, it is part of the parenthetical statement inserted in that verse. Thus, the verse should read, “Jesus Himself . . . being the son (as was supposed of Joseph) of Eli.”5 It is not Joseph who is “the son of Eli,” but Jesus. Eli is best identified as the father of Mary. Luke is dealing resourcefully with a dilemma arising from the fact of Jesus’ virgin birth. Descent was not to be traced through a man’s mother, but through his father. But by reason of His supernatural conception in the womb of a virgin, Jesus had no physical father. Thus, His physical genealogy had to be traced through his nearest male relative, His maternal grandfather. The name of that man was evidently Eli, as recorded in Luke 3:23.

Second, Luke has already given significant attention to Mary in the first two chapters of his Gospel (1:26-35; 2:19, 51) –this in contrast to Matthew’s nativity narrative, which mentions Mary only as the wife of Joseph. Given Luke’s focus on Mary in his telling of the nativity, it is plausible to suggest that the genealogy he inserts after that narrative is in fact that of Mary.

Finally, there are two remarkably important ramifications to this understanding of the genealogies. The first relates to Jesus’ two-fold qualification to sit on the throne of David. On the one hand, Solomon was the son of David to whom the throne had been promised (2 Samuel 12:25), and thus the legal authority to occupy that throne must descend through him. Because Jesus’ adopted father, Joseph, traced his lineage to David through Solomon, Jesus inherited that prerogative (Matthew 1:17). On the other hand, God had promised in the Davidic covenant that no one who was not of David’s seed–his physical descendant–would ever sit on that throne (Psalm 89:4). Luke twice intimates Mary’s descent from David: first in the words of the angel to Mary (1:32), and again in recording that Mary went to register in the city of David (2:5). But if Luke’s genealogy is not that of Mary, there is no explicit biblical affirmation that Jesus is physically a descendant of David. Given the central place of the Davidic covenant in the fabric of Messianic expectation woven in the Old Testament, it is certainly reasonable to expect just such an affirmation–indeed, to find it in the genealogy recorded by Luke.


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24 May 2021, 2:05 pm



"Matthew So And So Reports":

"7 For none of us lives to himself alone, and none of us dies to himself alone.
8 If we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So whether
we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this reason Christ died and
returned to life, that He might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

10 Why, then, do you judge your brother? Or why do you belittle your
brother? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11 It is written:

“As surely as I
live, says the Lord,
every knee will bow before Me;
every tongue will confess to God.”
12 So then, each of us will give

an account of himself to God."

i Really Don't Need to Quote it as i've

Heard it too Many Instances And Done It too;

By Story At Least, Jesus Called Himself Brother And Friend to Others;

Jesus Said the Last Will Be the First In The Kingdom of Heaven (The One Who Serves All

As This Is What An Alpha Ape Who Is A Successful Leader Does; Even Among Chimps Still Now)

Jesus said the Meek Will Inherit The Earth; And This Is True too As Any Species That Takes too

Many Resources Falls From Grace As Such And In turn Suffers The Consequences of Taking

More Than Returning to the Environment; As Sadly Humans Hoard Their Dead And Break

'The Circle of Life' As Jesus Said, Let The Dead Bury Their Own in Regard to Funeral

Arrangements As Such; This Much i Understand As Just a Human Ape And that

Is Love Never Fears Criticism as Love Stands On itS Own As Faith And Love

Never Requires Worship As Love Only Stands to Give to All Others First

As Any Alpha Male With Empathy As Leader Strives to Do Among

All the Others With the Most Difficult Job in Stress of All For

Love Gives; Love Never Requires Bended Knee, Or Bowing

Otherwise Love Will Not Be Last As First in the Kingdom

Of Heaven Breathing Love Now Within Giving, Sharing,

Caring, Freely With Least Harm for All Golden

Rule As Such With Clause Consume Others with

Least Harm Fully In Tact the

Most Evil Part of the

Bible Will Also Be

Found in Matthew too in terms

Of An All Non-Forgiving, Non-Loving God

too As That Refers to Jesus As 'Trump Rule' In

Firing And Torturing Sheep who Are Not Loyal

Changing them into Metaphor of Goats As Such Forever Torture Pure Evil that

Passage Is; Listen, It Doesn't Require 'A Rocket Scientist' to be Love God iNCaRNaTE;

Just A Human Being; All Classically Evolved Naturally; An Alpha Male/Female Ape Leader Now...

So Yes, In Other Words, the Joesph Campbell Same Dam Hero Story that Isaiah 53 Speaks That

May relate

As Metaphor

For Any Archetypal

Hero Story Rising Out

of Dark And Bringing Back

Light to The Village As Love
With Empathy All Naturally Naked Still Does...

Or Have 'You' Ever Heard A Holy Spirit 'Speak For Real'....

The Most Disgusting Thing Anyone Will Do For A Hero of Love

Is Bow Or Reduce Themselves to Bended Knee When Love Only Lives Above...

And in this Way, Anyone With Any 'Real' Schooling of Human Understands This is

Only What A Narcissist Might Do Malignantly Who Doesn't Feel Big Enough to Be Human Love...

Those Who Require

Others to Bend

Or Bow

to Feel Bigger

Are Small Humans

And As Far Away From

Love As Love Flows High As Low...

Love is Enough, Until the Christian Religion

Actually Practices This it Remains Ironically

A Dead Religion Still and Barely even Human As Love Breathes Free...



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24 May 2021, 7:45 pm

So is belief in the resurrection required to be a christian?
I know what I believe about the subject but I would be interested to hear other views.



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24 May 2021, 9:27 pm

:oops:

Mr Reynholm wrote:
So is belief in the resurrection required to be a christian?
I know what I believe about the subject but I would be interested to hear other views.

As far as I know, the belief that Jesus died and was dead, for days, and then resurrected, to finally ascend to heaven, is absolutely central to all major branches of Christianity.
I can't speak about minor groups I've never heard of, though.


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24 May 2021, 11:30 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
So is belief in the resurrection required to be a christian?
I know what I believe about the subject but I would be interested to hear other views.





'Love One Another'; That's It And The

Rest of the Nature of God That

Is Obviously The Nature of God;

Unless We Wanna Play Pretend;

And That's Just What The Roman

Empire And The Associated Catholic

Organization Did, Vaulting Jesus into An Idol God

to Worship; Rather Than A Teacher of Just a Simple

Solution to the World's Ills; Love One Another

And The Rest of All that (God/Nature) is too...

Of Course it's Common Teaching

Among Many Religions

With Basic Common

Feelings In Empathy

And Love; if Bonobos Will Do It;

Humans Will Do Love Even Greater too;

Yet All Bets Go Off, When Humans LiVE iN

'Insanely Large Groups'; More than 150 to 200 or so in Villages

of What Humans Are Evolved to LiVE iN Peace And Harmony And Balance Now Still

With the Rest of Nature; Break Away From Nature's Balance And Pretend 'the Human World

Isn't Running Down'...

Clue: it's Out of Balance;

It Is What It iS; There Is No

Escaping The Karma of Do

In Balance That Nature IS NOW

And Obviously All Sects of Christianity

Do Not Even Report A Resurrection Per

The Gospel of Thomas, Already Shared Here, In Gnostic Traditions still;

Of Course That Wasn't Edited/Included by the Roman Empire And Catholic Church;

And Many So-called Heretics, Who didn't believe in the Myths About Jesus were

Persecuted and Killed...

Hehe, Now 'They'

Usually

Only get

De-Friended

On Facebook At

Worst Punishment And Or Favor...



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