Resurrection of Jesus - or not - why does it matter?

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cbd
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25 Jul 2021, 7:27 am

the return of Jesus (or the true spelling) woukd signify the presence of the Bible's God .

the Universe is a vast field of eternal energy .. it is impossible to fathom if it stops and what are its boundaries .

People try to personify God , and even Religions outside of Christianity often fall short of conclusive explaination.

The stories of Different Religions encapsulate the idea of God's entry to the Universe .

my major question is , does this God only exist i our Galaxy / Solar System ? .. and are there similar existances in other parts of existance ?

for example . in the Bible with such stories as the Great Flood .. the descriptionof God's manner surely couldn't resonate with higher forms of being from further planets. in this example in the Bible .. God seems pretty petty .

is this the Highest Existance being spiteful ? ( a human trait .. far from enlightened imo ) or maybe an outside entity .. let's say an over see'er from a more advanced location .

Let's be real .. Earth is way way way behind when you consider the advanced cultivation of energy etc from past milleniar .

We are very neive to think that the Almighty has agripe with Earth as if we are some how special .


.

i am under the belief of spiritual evolution . so you may become trapped in a higher dimension , maybe even similar to the dream world when you leave your body (through chemical , dream or unltimaptely death) .. in complete non physical essence . from here you ascend until youve masterred every lesson . and as a result becoming an entity similar to that described by DMT takers . this may only be base level in the Grand Hierachy of Existance .. nonbody can suggest further experience at this time from what i'm aware .

who and what God is - maybe only be found for personal contact on higher planes of reality .. and sometimes even telepathically within our solid realm with pyschic influence .

if Jesus or Yahweh is returning .. it is likely a respawning excercise to bring Us / Earth to a higher state of thought (Thot)

Right now .. Earth is barely scraping our potential . if Jesus was that far ahead in the times of Bible account , we still have so much further to go coll0ectively before we're ready to be guided further along the trek .

Look how people treat each other . Most still don't have the fundamental characteristics of Christ teachings .. so why would Jesus return for a wasted excercise 8) ?



diagnosedafter50
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25 Jul 2021, 3:30 pm

Sorry my undiagnosed ADHD stopped me reading whole thread.
Just wanted to pop in as a non religious person who believed Jesus walked the earth.
He was a wise man who represents conscious awareness Christ Consciousness.
I think the resurrection is a metaphor for us redeeming ourselves, as that is what Jesus would have wanted and God or whatever you want to call the Divine Creator.
I believe in a Divine Creator as Atheism just does not make sense to me, despite my not being religious.



naturalplastic
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25 Jul 2021, 3:40 pm

diagnosedafter50 wrote:
Sorry my undiagnosed ADHD stopped me reading whole thread.
Just wanted to pop in as a non religious person who believed Jesus walked the earth.
He was a wise man who represents conscious awareness Christ Consciousness.
I think the resurrection is a metaphor for us redeeming ourselves, as that is what Jesus would have wanted and God or whatever you want to call the Divine Creator.
I believe in a Divine Creator as Atheism just does not make sense to me, despite my not being religious.


I lean this way. That the resurrection was a metaphor.

And one could imagine a Christianity in which Christ was simply a mortal man who was a great teacher/philosphoer/prophet, like Confucius, or Buddha, Zaroaster, Moses, or Mohammed. And indeed there were early nontrinitarian sects of early Christianity that had that belief. But they all got supplanted by the Trinitarian orthodox forerunners of most of modern Christianity which triumphed around 300 AD and became the Eastern Rite Orthodox, Roman Catholic, and later Protestant, sects of today. The literal resurrection is central to Trinitarian Christianity.



Mr Reynholm
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28 Jul 2021, 7:52 pm

Belief in the resurrection is central to Christianity. To deny the resurrection is to fall outside the pale of of being a Christian. It is one of the few non-negotiable doctrines of the Christian faith.



GGPViper
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29 Jul 2021, 4:27 am

Mr Reynholm wrote:
Belief in the resurrection is central to Christianity. To deny the resurrection is to fall outside the pale of of being a Christian. It is one of the few non-negotiable doctrines of the Christian faith.

BBC wrote:
Resurrection did not happen, say quarter of Christians.

Image

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-39153121



aghogday
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29 Jul 2021, 8:32 am



Oh Lord, Like Every Other Story, Myth, Sacred And Holy Text of Antiquity,

It is Vehicle And Vessel, Yes Metaphor That Holds Greater Essence, For Deeper

Truths of Our Existence As Human Beings; Yes, in Other Words, Avenues That Story, Myth,
Sacred And Holy Text Make And Create for A Larger, Deeper View of Being Human in Fuller

Meaning And Purpose...

As Far As These 'Stories'

'Move' US ALL in Life, Depend

On How Deep We May Create
Meaning And Purpose For Ourselves

To Create A Greater Existence For Ourselves
And Others Around Us We May Come to Love
All Naturally Greater in An All Forgiving Merciful Ways

Where We Come to Save Ourselves As Us As You And Them
too A Bigger View of Life That No Longer Divides and Separates
That Instead Unifies And Joins Forces of Love Together to Survive And Thrive Greater...

"Christ The Redeemer" That Huge Statue on Corcovado Mountain, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil,
With His Arms Outreached Is Simply A Metaphor of Love Outreached For ALL It's True Take

A Pen Now Around the Tips of Out-Reached Fingers to Around Top of the Head and Bottom
of Feet and You Get An Orbit, An Oval of Love, the Force That Gives, Shares, Cares, Freely

To All Others

Without

Restraint

All Merciful
Forgiving with
No Exception, Compassion For How

Each Human Being is Resurrecting Now

Out of DarK iNto A Real Hero Archetype

of Evolving LiGHT Love For All This Way

As Metaphor of UniVersal Christ Or Buddha

Consciousness of Compassion in Lao Tzu Flow

of Eternal Bliss With No Separation From Our UniVerse

Within As Is Inhaling Peace Exhaling Love For All Our Salvation

Our Redeemer Love All Free Within to Give, Share, Care For One Another All

of Nature

Well For Real

Healing Existing

This is Common
And Cross Cultural
Through All Ages Sadly

Some Folks only take the
Stories Literal And Make them
Tribal And Separate And Selfish Away

From Others And Totally Miss the Core

Message of Love One Another Universally

Where One Another Is All of Existence Now in Complete Love...

'Fowler', in his 'Evolution of Faith' Shows the Progression of Humans
Who Take Myths Literally And Finally Excel to the Top of A Pyramid

Of An All

Seeing

Eye of

LoVE For All...

True Wisdom is In Unity
And Love For aLL A Way

to Eternal Bliss aS UNiversal
Love Comes To Breathe

From Inhale

of Peace

to Exhale of UniVersal Love For All...

As 'They Say' They Will Know We Are

'Christians' By Our Love Any Lesser oF A STory

of Love For All is Verily Not Good News Now....

And to Be Clear "Universal Christ" Is No Different

Than the Redemption

The Savior

Of "Universal Love"

Within to Give, Share,
Care With Empathy and
Compassion in Unity For All...

Anything Less is Truly 'Anti-Christ/Anti-Love'

And to Be Clear in 'That Bible Book' Written

By Many it's Reasonable to Take Some Parts

of it as Written And Believe in a God Like Trump

That if He Could Would Torture Folks Forever As

Both a Psychopath and A Narcissist Just Like they

Do at the End of the Evil Story too, Where the Villain Turns into
Non-Merciful, Non-Forgiving, All Torturing Enemies, 'Anti-Christ/Anti-Love' Forever...

Y88K That Really S88KS

In Case Ya
Wonder

Who

The 'Anti-Christ/Anti-Love' is

Revealed in Revelation of Course...

Sweet Delicious Dark Irony Truth in DarK is LiGHT too...

And Surely There Are Many Now Who Still 'Reflect' That DarK
Revelation As Despicable Leaders and Minions Same That Revelation

Of Villain and Followers in So Many Mythologies And Stories too

Vehicles

And Vessels

in DarK Truths too...

Choose the Good News

or Bad News aS A Way

Of Love

Redeeming

Love Salvation for

All Or a Lesser God iN Deed...

Surely Not One RiSinG Out of DarK
Resurrecting into LiGHT oF LoVE FOR ALL

NO EXCEPTIONS PERIOD...

ARMS OUTREACHED

NOT ALL

CLOSED

UP AND DEAD FOR LOVE...

An Orbit of Love Continues

FRiEnDS With Gravity in Balance Away Now From Fear, Hate,
And Ignorance In Flow, Truly An Apocalypse (Revelation) of Love
to See and Hear for Those With Eyes and Ears Evolving For Love
At the Top

of An

All Seeing

Eye Pyramid

In Wisdom Love...

Yet Never Forgetting

Now Base oF All Fears,
Hates, And Discordance
oF FaLL That Hold Love Up Not Much

Different Than A BLacK Hole Sun at the Center of a Galaxy...

No Light Without Dark, No Day Without Night, No Light

Without Ignorance

Still Now...

Some

Fall

Some Rise

Sunset Sunrise

TWiLiGHT Forevernow Love...



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Mr Reynholm
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29 Jul 2021, 11:49 am

GGPViper wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
Belief in the resurrection is central to Christianity. To deny the resurrection is to fall outside the pale of of being a Christian. It is one of the few non-negotiable doctrines of the Christian faith.

BBC wrote:
Resurrection did not happen, say quarter of Christians.

Image

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-39153121

Popular opinion does not make a fact true or not.
But the defining doctrine of Christianity is bound up in the resurrection. Paul said "For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. ... And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins." ICOR 15



ToughDiamond
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29 Jul 2021, 12:52 pm

thinkinginpictures wrote:
There seems to be a lot of debate over the resurrection of Jesus.
It seems like many Christians won't accept the possibilities of Jesus still being alive when cut down from the cross, or not resurrected at all.

It is said that the resurrection is proof of Jesus' divinity. And that his divinity is ultimately the proof that whatever Jesus taught during his lifetime, is correct.

But why the need for a divine Christ, which originally means The Annointed One (a title for a king)?

A king needs no divinity. He only needs followers to believe he is their leader.

Why the need for a super-human deity, when all you need to fulfill his wishes for humanity, can be achieved by mere actions in daily life, personal responsibilities like caring for the sick, elderly, disabled, poor and generally speaking - just be a good human?

Also, I doubt Jesus would've accepted everyone wearing a cross around their neck, or worshipping a cross in churches.

It would be like having a symbol of a gallow to worship, or wearing a syringe/needle as a symbol for Lethal Injection, around their neck...


See my post below (CloudCrap won't let me add it to this)



ToughDiamond
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29 Jul 2021, 12:52 pm

Groups quite often like to have a history containing amazing deeds of their heroic founders, and what could be more amazing that a supernatural event, if you can get away with it? The USA has its independence day thing with its heroes, the nationalists in the UK are always pushing for the schools to teach about the supposed great men of British history. The Jews have (among other things) their supposed emancipation from Egyptian slavery, a talking bush, and their constitution burned into stone tablets by a beam of energy from their deity. The Romans had a modest version of their founders Romulus and Remus being rescued by the river god and suckled by a wolf. And Christians have (on top of the Jewish legends) Jesus doing miracles and coming back from the dead.

I guess the function of these colourful and glorious origin stories exist is to bolster up group self-esteem and perhaps to stop the membership getting bored, and because it's buried in the past it's often harder to investigate and refute than it would be to refute any glorification of themselves in the here and now. Especially in ancient times when there weren't so many sophisticated tools for the analysis of history. According to Malcolm X, the whites undermined black self-confidence by telling the slaves they had no history at all when in fact many of them had originated from impressive African empires.


Kings and emperors in primitive societies often put the story about that they were gods with magical powers. The UK's royal family currently seems to get by with an illustrious history rather than a miraculous one.

It might not be absolutely necessary to do these things, but it probably helps the group, especially the leaders' power over the group, if nobody successfully debunks the story. I suppose that's at the root of why it doesn't usually go down very well to go into a church and express disbelief in their supernatural claims. But some brands of the church aren't so tied up in it. The Church of England had a leader who said he thought the scriptures were only allegorically true, and not being a very intense religion these days they don't seem to mind what your beliefs are as long as you don't rock their boat too hard. Then there's the spiritualists, who only have a simple list of core values to sign up to, and they leave its interpretation entirely up to the individual. Of course as their main activity is to (supposedly) talk with the dead, they might be less in need of a miraculous history.



aghogday
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29 Jul 2021, 12:57 pm

^^^



Trust me or Not, No Worries of Mine;

True, After Responding Now Poetically

to Thousands of Poem And Poets

Around the World Reading Same

True One Interpretation

Of Poetry

Only

Means

One Interpretation

of Poetry AS Heroes Have

Been RiSinG From the Living

Dead As LonG As Humans Continue to
BREaTHE Similar Archetypes of Existence Now...

Bringing Light to the Rest of the Village Grown
DarK in Traditions of Human Ignorance

That Naturally Exclude

Any New Meanings

And Purposes

Of Life to Give Share

Free Caring For Greater

Human Potentials FOR REAL

Still To BREaTHE NOW God Yep

Reality is a bit

More Plausible

to Swallow and

Spit Out Than

Myths of the Truly Dead...

Yet True A "Sugar Pill Fictional
Dead Hero" Also BRings Some
Placebo Relief Healing In Belief Now For
Whatever Color Ya Paint And Flavor them Next...

Yet True Any Form

Of Poem Will Do

Or Other Art

Expressing

Much Deeper

Essence Within

To Feel and Sense

Even Deeper Greater Change
To Come Even More Now For Real...

Meh, Limit Yourself to the Same Old Stories As You Wish...



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slam_thunderhide
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29 Jul 2021, 2:33 pm

thinkinginpictures wrote:
There seems to be a lot of debate over the resurrection of Jesus.
It seems like many Christians won't accept the possibilities of Jesus still being alive when cut down from the cross, or not resurrected at all.

It is said that the resurrection is proof of Jesus' divinity. And that his divinity is ultimately the proof that whatever Jesus taught during his lifetime, is correct.

But why the need for a divine Christ, which originally means The Annointed One (a title for a king)?

A king needs no divinity. He only needs followers to believe he is their leader.

Why the need for a super-human deity, when all you need to fulfill his wishes for humanity, can be achieved by mere actions in daily life, personal responsibilities like caring for the sick, elderly, disabled, poor and generally speaking - just be a good human?


Jesus's message, according to the Bible, went beyond merely good deeds like caring for the sick. Several passages in the New Testament can be read as thinly disguised calls to revolt against the ruling Roman authorities of the time (although other passages seem to contradict these totally). The early Christians were unlikely to convince many new people to join them in such activities unless they could convince people that the founder of their movement was divine in some way.

That's the most convincing explanation I've heard anyway. And no, I'm not a Christian myself (unsurprisingly).