Male disposability, the Apex fallacy, and male privilege

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04 Jun 2021, 2:34 pm

MrsPeel wrote:
I'm a bit hesitant to wade into this debate, it seems to getting a bit heated, but maybe I'll just state my opinion and run...

It just seems to me as if modern society has lost its way with how we value each other and our respective contributions. And it upsets me that we always end up with this male vs female sort of argument, when as far as I can see, the imbalances can and do affect all genders.

Please forgive generalisations with respect to gender in my explanation, but it is a necessary part of explaining my point.

So what I mean is, if we look back at our deep ancestral roots as bands of hunter-gatherers, there would have been something of a hierarchy within the band, yet also a recognition of the importance of the contribution offered by every individual, whether that was as a hunter, a gatherer, a provider of shelter, a cook, a carer, a storyteller, or, more likely, someone who contributed in varying degrees to all of those areas of need, according to their skills, proclivities and the needs of the tribe. In those days, the value of each individual's labour to the survival and prosperity of the tribe was more obvious.

Along the way, what with the development of agriculture and towns and cities, societal roles became ever more specialised. It was natural for women as child-bearers to often take on the role of caring for the family while the men worked to support them. Men would naturally come to see themselves as fulfilling a role to a greater tribe such as the state or nation through their work, whereas women might think of themselves more in terms of fulfilling a role to the family unit.

In modern society, all genders are being undermined with respect to how they are valued.

As someone who has grown up as female, it is easy for me to understand the frustration of female devaluation. It is knowing that the huge amount of time and emotional investment I have put into raising my children has been deemed to have, essentially, no value to society. We are not paid to stay home and take care of our children. In a society which revolves around money, the pressure is on us instead to get a 'real job' and leave our kids in the care of (often also poorly-paid) childcare workers. And this is not just a question of money. It's about an insidious sense of ones worth being lesser because one is working in a service industry rather than 'using one's intellect' and 'actually doing/making things'.

I can also see the issue of male devaluation. Let's face it, we no longer have enough meaningful jobs to go around, the ones that allow men to feel they as an individual are serving a crucial role in society. Instead there are ever more BS jobs which may be serving an appetite for services and entertainment but would hardly cause societal collapse if they were to disappear overnight. And with the mind-numbing wealth disparities in modern times, even those in important jobs (yes, such as garbage collection), are still struggling to make ends meet and would be justified in feeling disgruntled.

I can understand that nowadays, with small families being the norm and there being no particular drive to populate, perhaps it is debatable how much value there truly is to the bearing of children. And hence I can understand the shift in mindset that men may be seeing their own value more in terms of their work rather than as providers and protectors of the family, and may no longer hold to the 'save the women and children first' mindset of former times.

What I'm concerned about though, is what we are bringing in to replace this mindset. In this case, whom should we save first? And call me a pessimist, but I'm very afraid that with current society the way it is, there would be special lifeboats reserved for the ultra-wealthy (of whichever gender), and the rest of us would be fighting amongst ourselves for places on the remaining few boats, with children trampled underfoot.

I know I said I was done wasting brain cells on this thread, but this is an excellent post.

"If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced."

-XFG (no longer a moderator)


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04 Jun 2021, 7:06 pm

Mm, I seem to have brought the conversation to a halt with that one.


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Joined: 15 Sep 2008
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04 Jun 2021, 9:44 pm

MrsPeel wrote:
Mm, I seem to have brought the conversation to a halt with that one.

They're probably just pausing to think or something.