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FranzOren
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28 May 2021, 9:25 am

I think that "Delusional Disorder" should be removed and I will make a short explanation to why.


What is diagnosis of separated "Delusional Disorder"?

I don't think that delusions can exist without hallucinations.

I believe that hallucinations has to always exist in order for there to be delusions.


It's a rare diagnosis of psychosis where doctors think you have fixed, false belief without hallucinations, but I find that to be not true and that there must be some kind of hallucinations in order for there to be delusions.



Fnord
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28 May 2021, 9:29 am

Fortunately, "I think..." means only that you are sharing your subjective opinion.


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FranzOren
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28 May 2021, 9:30 am

Makes sense.



naturalplastic
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05 Jun 2021, 12:37 pm

FranzOren wrote:
I think that "Delusional Disorder" should be removed and I will make a short explanation to why.


What is diagnosis of separated "Delusional Disorder"?

I don't think that delusions can exist without hallucinations.

I believe that hallucinations has to always exist in order for there to be delusions.


It's a rare diagnosis of psychosis where doctors think you have fixed, false belief without hallucinations, but I find that to be not true and that there must be some kind of hallucinations in order for there to be delusions.


You can have delusions without having hallucinations.

You can have delusions of reference: seeing a TV commercial and thinking that the announcer is talking to you personally.

Or notice that as you cut through a college campus on a spring day, that all of the students milling around the campus suddenly start fumbling with their smart phones as you walk by--because all young folks today are glued to their smartphones 24-7, but you conclude that they are doing that because you just walked by because they all "work for somebody who is spying on me, and they are all reporting my whereabouts". Paranoia.

Or you hear human voices talking to you in the noises made by the window air conditioner (someone on WP talked about having that notion).

Things like that.



Hannibalthecannibal
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05 Jun 2021, 12:43 pm

I am a psych major. I have also dealt with the diagnosis of Delusional Disorder before. It's entirely possible to have delusions without having hallucinations, for example: a diagnosis of schizophrenia can be made WITHOUT having hallucinations and by having delusions instead (plus the other diagnostic criteria). You don't have to have both.

If you'd like to explain why you think this I'd be interested to know! What makes you think to have delusions you have to have hallucinations too?



FranzOren
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05 Jun 2021, 1:04 pm

My thought is that when you have a fixed false belief, the brain tricks your mind with images or scripts in your head that gives you false evidence that is not in line with reality and those images and scripts in your head that causes a delusion are form of atypical hallucination.

Atypical hallucination: A form of hallucination that is milder or close to not existing when a delusion is now present.



Hannibalthecannibal
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05 Jun 2021, 1:29 pm

FranzOren wrote:
My thought is that when you have a fixed false belief, the brain tricks your mind with images or scripts in your head that gives you false evidence that is not in line with reality and those images and scripts in your head that causes a delusion are form of atypical hallucination.

Atypical hallucination: A form of hallucination that is milder or close to not existing when a delusion is now present.


Hallucinations and delusions are like cousins but they aren't the same. I have experienced delusions in the past from severe abuse and stress that was later resolved, however I have never experienced hallucinations. Hallucinations impact the senses: you're seeing, smelling, feeling, tasting, or hearing something that's not actually there. Delusions are a cognitive belief or rationalization derived by deception and typically involves some form of paranoia, but not always. Hallucinations are hearing a voice telling you you're worthless, or to hurt someone, while a delusion would be something like believing a celebrity is in love with you, that your partner is cheating on you, or believing someone is out to hurt or spy on you with contrary evidence. Some can be more bizarre like believing your thoughts are controlled by aliens.

If someone with delusions is seeing false images or hearing scripts in their head that leads to a delusion then they are also hallucinating. You can develop a delusion without that though.



FranzOren
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05 Jun 2021, 1:51 pm

Thank you! It makes sense. I am sorry that I was wrong. It's just I had theories for a long time that there must be hallucinations in order for there to be delusions.

I once hallucinated the military police following me everywhere I went and I saw in my own eyes, the military police attacking all high school students. And because of that, I had false believes that there was military police brutality against everyone. And then, I only once acted in violence by throwing tables and punching my former high school teachers. I was suspended from school, because I was not deemed safe to go to school, until I became more stable with medications and therapies. And in that military police delusional thing, before I got suspended from school, I believed that the aliens where coming to earth, as the images and scripts in my head gave me that false evidence as well. And even before I was suspended from school, I made fun of my friends and had thought that I had self-worth and was much better than everyone else.

When I was nineteen years old, I hallucinated firefighters following me everywhere I went and had a false believe that everyone was accusing me of stalking them. When I became very scared, I hold an object and threatened my mom and my brother not to get any closer. My brother restrained me and put me to bed to try to calm myself down until I was ready to talk.


That was a Persecutory delusion and Delusion of grandeur that I once had.



I once hallucinated myself that I downloaded child porn for four years and still believed that I did that, even after my family, especially police officers explained to me that I did nothing wrong. I also hallucinated that I murdered another child when I was four years old. It felt so real that I could not understand and held a believe that I murdered another child when I was four years old and it went like that for almost a year to get out of that delusion, even though my family explained to me that I am a good person. I had that delusion for ten years.

That was a delusion of guilt that I once had for five years for child porn and ten years for murder that I did not commit and still believed that I did until half a year later.


I still have grandiosity to this day, but not full-blown criteria for Delusion of grandeur.



Hannibalthecannibal
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05 Jun 2021, 10:35 pm

FranzOren wrote:
Thank you! It makes sense. I am sorry that I was wrong. It's just I had theories for a long time that there must be hallucinations in order for there to be delusions.

I once hallucinated the military police following me everywhere I went and I saw in my own eyes, the military police attacking all high school students. And because of that, I had false believes that there was military police brutality against everyone. And then, I only once acted in violence by throwing tables and punching my former high school teachers. I was suspended from school, because I was not deemed safe to go to school, until I became more stable with medications and therapies. And in that military police delusional thing, before I got suspended from school, I believed that the aliens where coming to earth, as the images and scripts in my head gave me that false evidence as well. And even before I was suspended from school, I made fun of my friends and had thought that I had self-worth and was much better than everyone else.

When I was nineteen years old, I hallucinated firefighters following me everywhere I went and had a false believe that everyone was accusing me of stalking them. When I became very scared, I hold an object and threatened my mom and my brother not to get any closer. My brother restrained me and put me to bed to try to calm myself down until I was ready to talk.


That was a Persecutory delusion and Delusion of grandeur that I once had.



I once hallucinated myself that I downloaded child porn for four years and still believed that I did that, even after my family, especially police officers explained to me that I did nothing wrong. I also hallucinated that I murdered another child when I was four years old. It felt so real that I could not understand and held a believe that I murdered another child when I was four years old and it went like that for almost a year to get out of that delusion, even though my family explained to me that I am a good person. I had that delusion for ten years.

That was a delusion of guilt that I once had for five years for child porn and ten years for murder that I did not commit and still believed that I did until half a year later.


I still have grandiosity to this day, but not full-blown criteria for Delusion of grandeur.


I understand where you're coming from, both can exist separately though. It's common for people without psychosis to experience a delusion or two during their lifetime too, for example, the ever-so-infamous "delusion" that your partner is cheating. These people don't hallucinate suspicious texts, or hallucinate seeing their partner in bed someone, it's just an improper rationalization most likely due to projection or misinterpretation, possibly insecurity as well. However, despite contrary evidence, they believe this to be true anyway and accuse their partner, leave them, and cause other forms of distress. It's also entirely possible to experience a delusion without having Delusional Disorder, similar to how it's possible to experience a hallucination without having schizophrenia.

You're right when it comes to saying Delusional Disorder isn't commonly diagnosed. If someone has a delusion that's caused by a disorder, it's most likely schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, psychotic depression, or Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD). Thanks for making this thread!



FranzOren
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06 Jun 2021, 7:57 am

Your welcome!



naturalplastic
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06 Jun 2021, 8:00 am

Now that you mention it.. this thread is the first time and place that I ever heard of "delusional disorder".

What is the difference between DD and schizophrenia?



FranzOren
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06 Jun 2021, 8:10 am

I really don't see the difference between Delusional Disorder and Schizophrenia, because you can just have a delusion and still have Schizophrenia if it lasted for six months. I would still make a point that your brain tricks you with false evidence that is not in line with reality and because of that, you have fixed false belief. Your brain must trick you into believing things that are not in line with reality. And that tricks that your mind plays on you must be a form of hallucination, but not that kind of hallucination that comes from the bookish term of hallucination.

That is why I don't really see the point into separating Delusional Disorder from all other psychotic disorders, because I thought that there must be some form of tricks that brain plays on you into having a fixed false belief as I explained above



The_Znof
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06 Jun 2021, 9:10 am

naturalplastic wrote:
Now that you mention it.. this thread is the first time and place that I ever heard of "delusional disorder".

What is the difference between DD and schizophrenia?


many disorders can involve delusions, and if it is not known what specific disorder is causing an individual to have delusions, they may be described as having a "delusional disorder"



FranzOren
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06 Jun 2021, 10:13 am

I agree!



naturalplastic
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06 Jun 2021, 1:49 pm

The_Znof wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Now that you mention it.. this thread is the first time and place that I ever heard of "delusional disorder".

What is the difference between DD and schizophrenia?


many disorders can involve delusions, and if it is not known what specific disorder is causing an individual to have delusions, they may be described as having a "delusional disorder"


So..."we dont know what the patient is, but we can see that he is whacko. So we will just call it 'delusional disorder' for now." :lol:



The_Znof
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06 Jun 2021, 9:11 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
The_Znof wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Now that you mention it.. this thread is the first time and place that I ever heard of "delusional disorder".

What is the difference between DD and schizophrenia?


many disorders can involve delusions, and if it is not known what specific disorder is causing an individual to have delusions, they may be described as having a "delusional disorder"


So..."we dont know what the patient is, but we can see that he is whacko. So we will just call it 'delusional disorder' for now." :lol:


In my case it was what they said about my possibly borderline mother based on my description. She wasnt seeking help for herself, I was dealing with the fallout of c-ptsd ect.