"Anti Racism" controversy getting ugly in Virginia

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Brictoria
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11 Jun 2021, 4:44 am

salad wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Are we talking about this Loudon County?
Quote:
A Virginia county's fierce debate over teaching children controversial critical race theory escalated this week at a school board meeting where a mother who survived the purge in Maoist China condemned what she called an effort to turn classrooms into 'indoctrination camps'.

Xi Van Fleet, who fled China at the age of 26 before settling in the United States, told members of the Loudoun County School Board that she is 'very alarmed' by the teaching of CRT, which she says 'trains children to be social justice warriors and to loathe their country and their history.'

'This is indeed the American version of the Chinese Cultural Revolution,' Van Fleet declared, referring to the Mao Zedong-led purge that left between 500,000 and 20 million people dead from 1966 to 1976. She was six years old when the revolution started.

'Critical Race Theory has its roots in cultural Marxism. It should have no place in our school.'

'The Communist regime used the same critical theory to divide people. The only difference is they used class instead of race,' she stated, adding that CRT was 'neo-racist'.

'We were taught to denounce our heritage, and Red Guards destroyed anything that is not communist…statues, books and anything else. We were also encouraged to report on each other, just like the Student Equity Ambassador program and the bias reporting system,' Van Fleet added, referring to new initiatives set up in Loudoun County public schools.

'I felt like it's such a free country, meaning I have free access to all sorts of information – books on both sides of the issues,' she stated.

However, now, Van Fleet says she feels that some of that freedom is being taken away, saying:' I can't really just say what I mean, even though the other side can say whatever,. To me, and to a lot of Chinese, it is heartbreaking that we escaped communism and now we experience communism here.'

Source: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9672569/Virginia-mom-survived-Maoist-Chinas-purge-slams-Critical-Race-Theory.html

Then again, no doubt this was just another of those "obnoxious racist parents" being "pushed" into getting vocal about CRT...


You just quoted the Daily Mail.

All credibility lost.


I forgot that there are still people who only accept information which has been approved by the "Ministry of Truth" and have a phobia of anything that comes from an "unapproved" source.

I wonder what it feels like to live in a world where if an "approved source" doesn't publish information, then it "doesn't exist"? It must be difficult not understanding what is happening in the world...


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11 Jun 2021, 8:20 am

funeralxempire wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Yeah that is cool, but when that argument made about other flawed historical figures that did great things, those making that argument are assumed to be racists and said historical figure is canceled anyway.


Which historical figure has been cancelled? Jefferson still hasn't been and his legacy is terrible. Johnson and Jackson haven't been and they're at least as bad.

Why Are Statues Of Abolitionists Being Torn Down As Well?

Kate Smith was a famous singer in part because her version of God Bless America became a second national anthem of sorts which made Nazis in America prior to WWII none to happy because the song was written by a Jew. During the war she raised far more money for the troops then any other entertainer. She did more for anti fascism then Antifa can even imagine. Josephine Baker was a black singer who was being blacklisted because she refused to play to segregated audiences in the early 1950s. Kate Smith let her preform on her TV show. That is being anti racist.

In 1969 the Philadelphia Flyers sucked, this being in the anti Viet war era the fans were apathetic during the national anthem even continuing their conversations. The Flyers owner to spice things up played her version of “God Bless America”. The team won most of their games “God Bless America” and even two Stanley Cups. The Flyers put up a statue of her by their arena snd continued to play a record version of that song. After 9/11 the New York Yankees stated playing that song. A couple of years ago an offense archivists unearthed two songs she sung in the early 1930s "That's Why Darkies Were Born" and "Pickaninnies' Heaven" and informed the Yankees about it who promptly stopped playing the song. The Flyers stopped playing that song and tore down that statue. Interestingly Paul Robeson also preformed “That’s Why Darkies Were Born” . But Kate Smith was a southerner, there you go.

Now a very valid case could be made that “God Bless America” should not be used as a rallying cry for your favorite team. But that was not even a consideration in the cancellation.


She wasn't removed from the historic record, they simply chose to use another song. It was bound to happen eventually and that's not a bad reason to make the change. I figured you'd have something more significant than a sports team changing a song they use.

I was under the impression that cancellation is not full elimination of a person from memory but attempting to do that by firing people, tearing down statues, or like in this case banning their work.

Banning the work of an artist who did so much to fight bigotry because of two songs she preformed as a young singer and especially as a women in 1932 when she had no control over her career is a horrific reason, worse then let’s say leading a rebellion against your country to defend slavery.

Their was a that mural in a Philadelphia High School that depicted the founding fathers and their slaves that was taken down even after it was pointed out that the artist was a communist and then painting was a protest.

I can spend all night going through my and other posts of egregious cancellations. They are examples of what anti racism training and the Critical Race Theories it comes out of which is on topic for the thread. Specifically that people and their actions should be defined primarily by their racism, anything bigoted a person did means that they are a racist and probably they are too ignorant too realize it due to their white privilege


The thing is they'll be really trivial things like this where some organization cringes away from association with someone after it's revealed they did something socially unacceptable and that's nothing new and not the result of wokeness or CRT or anything of the sort. It's something that's occurred for ages and the only thing that's changed is how the window has shifted.

Among things, it doesn't really matter who painted the mural and what it represented to the artist, if it's poorly received the entity that commissioned it is entitled to take it down. I'd be pretty disappointed if it was a piece of my art, it would probably sting personally, but ultimately it would be within whoever commissioned it's rights to do so.

As for the Flyers and the song, it wasn't the greatest reason to stop using it a complex discussion certainly would be interesting but also be beside the point. They're entitled to change their usage for any reason including none at all. It had a long run but it was bound to be replaced eventually.

The issue is not about first amendment rights, free speech, it is SHOULD these things be cancelled for these reasons, what should be priorities in judging people. Because a entity can cancel does not cancel my right to b***h about it or invalidate all criticism of these decisions.

I completely disagree about the Kate Smith cancellation being trivial. The song and Smith are of historical importance because the her song and her other activities was a rallying cry for American public during WWII. Besides the historical importance this cancelation and the assumed racism reasons for it is one of the most wrong headed assumptions and cancellations I have seen. In other words this is no Dr. Seuss cancellation.


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11 Jun 2021, 8:34 am

cyberdad wrote:
I'm curious why Republican activists feel the need to working with local white parents, including a former Trump administration spokesman, to recall six Democratic Loudoun County school board members, at least some of whom joined the 600-member anti-racist Facebook group. Since when do politicians get involved in education curriculum.

As a parent, the last person I would listen to is a Trump activist on what's best for my child.

These parents probably hate the idea of black kids in their school more than the education of their kids.

Perhaps they should pool their money together (they have plenty of that) and start some type of "confederate" school or homeschool their kids rather than threaten POC and inclusionary white parents.

That is easy, they see political advantage in doing so. Making themselves be seen as the lesser of two evils. The frightening part is the “wokes” are doing so much of the work for them. A voter may hate Trump, think he is an ass, dangerous and incompetent if the voter can be persuaded that for all his and the Republican faults that party is trying to protect their kids from being indoctrinated by a marxist, racist ideology that is going to make their kids hate themselves that vote may very well be Republican.


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11 Jun 2021, 8:46 am

Brictoria wrote:
Are we talking about this Loudon County?
Quote:
A Virginia county's fierce debate over teaching children controversial critical race theory escalated this week at a school board meeting where a mother who survived the purge in Maoist China condemned what she called an effort to turn classrooms into 'indoctrination camps'.

Xi Van Fleet, who fled China at the age of 26 before settling in the United States, told members of the Loudoun County School Board that she is 'very alarmed' by the teaching of CRT, which she says 'trains children to be social justice warriors and to loathe their country and their history.'

'This is indeed the American version of the Chinese Cultural Revolution,' Van Fleet declared, referring to the Mao Zedong-led purge that left between 500,000 and 20 million people dead from 1966 to 1976. She was six years old when the revolution started.

'Critical Race Theory has its roots in cultural Marxism. It should have no place in our school.'

'The Communist regime used the same critical theory to divide people. The only difference is they used class instead of race,' she stated, adding that CRT was 'neo-racist'.

'We were taught to denounce our heritage, and Red Guards destroyed anything that is not communist…statues, books and anything else. We were also encouraged to report on each other, just like the Student Equity Ambassador program and the bias reporting system,' Van Fleet added, referring to new initiatives set up in Loudoun County public schools.

'I felt like it's such a free country, meaning I have free access to all sorts of information – books on both sides of the issues,' she stated.

However, now, Van Fleet says she feels that some of that freedom is being taken away, saying:' I can't really just say what I mean, even though the other side can say whatever,. To me, and to a lot of Chinese, it is heartbreaking that we escaped communism and now we experience communism here.'

Source: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9672569/Virginia-mom-survived-Maoist-Chinas-purge-slams-Critical-Race-Theory.html

Then again, no doubt this was just another of those "obnoxious racist parents" being "pushed" into getting vocal about CRT...


We are talking about this Loudoun county.
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11 Jun 2021, 9:33 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
The issue is not about first amendment rights, free speech, it is SHOULD these things be cancelled for these reasons, what should be priorities in judging people. Because a entity can cancel does not cancel my right to b***h about it or invalidate all criticism of these decisions.

I completely disagree about the Kate Smith cancellation being trivial. The song and Smith are of historical importance because the her song and her other activities was a rallying cry for American public during WWII. Besides the historical importance this cancelation and the assumed racism reasons for it is one of the most wrong headed assumptions and cancellations I have seen. In other words this is no Dr. Seuss cancellation.


You've absolutely got every right to draw attention to and comment on whatever issue you'd like. I'm just saying so far your case hasn't been particularly compelling. If this is a 'serious' example I feel pretty confident in continuing to make the case that cancel culture isn't a real issue. Perhaps at some point there will be a more compelling example but this isn't it.


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11 Jun 2021, 9:44 am

Currently, civilians are acting as self-appointed vigilante "Thought Police", and are attacking not only those whose thoughts are evil or disgusting, but those whose opinions are merely different.


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11 Jun 2021, 2:08 pm

This news item would fit in the conservative cancel culture thread but it is closely related to the topic of this thread.
Florida bans use of critical race theory, “1619 Project” in teaching history

Quote:
Lessons that deal with critical race theory and “The 1619 Project” are not welcome in Florida’s public schools following a State Board of Education vote on Thursday.

At the request of Gov. Ron DeSantis, the board unanimously adopted a rule that, in the words of member Tom Grady, emphasizes historical facts over “fiction, projects or theory masquerading as fact.”

Grady offered an amendment that named critical race theory and “The 1619 Project” as examples of two well-known educational approaches that would not be acceptable in classrooms.

Grady’s proposal also spelled out more specifically which subject areas would be required to be taught beyond the Holocaust, which was the only one mentioned in the original version of the rule.

Those include civil rights and slavery. Grady suggested that those additions spoke to critics who accused the governor and board of attempting to gloss over history, while at the same time clarifying for teachers what the state expects.

The board, meeting in Jacksonville, did not offer details about how it expected the rule to be enforced. Teachers union leaders speculated that specifics would be left to districts, and largely center on complaints that come from students or parents.

State Sen. Janet Cruz, a Tampa Democrat who sits on the Senate Education Committee, said she worried the rule could give rise to more video recording of teachers in classrooms. That’s something the Republican legislative majority authorized this spring at the university level, where some contended liberal viewpoints were being advanced at the expense of conservative voices

Superintendents across the state have said they do not teach critical race theory in their schools. But that did not stop the State Board from considering the rule.

Many teachers protested in the days before the session, saying they do not attempt to indoctrinate their students as the governor and others have suggested, but rather present facts and allow children to explore the ideas.

Some have said it appears the governor is seeking to keep important lessons about Black history out of the schools in order to paint a partisan “patriotic” vision of the nation.

DeSantis said that’s not the case. He noted that state law requires the teaching of slavery, civil rights and more. “It is required to be taught, and it absolutely should be,” he said.

Teachers simply must not depart from the historical record to present a narrative that says the nation is rotten, he added.

DeSantis has been calling on schools to keep critical race theory out of schools for several months. His campaign falls in line with a national Republican effort to promote patriotism in civics and history lessons, while suggesting that school initiatives that focus on race and diversity engender hate and divisiveness.

DeSantis was unable to persuade Florida lawmakers to consider such a measure when he promoted a multimillion-dollar civics initiative earlier this year. So he looked to Education Commissioner Richard Corcoran and the State Board to implement a rule that targets the goal.

To have a long-lasting effect, lawmakers eventually will have to incorporate the rule into law, board member Gibson said.

She and others observed that when DeSantis recently signed a social media oversight bill into law he declared, “Speech that is inconvenient to the narrative will be protected.” He also said, “We cannot have people whitewash the Holocaust in Florida schools” during a town hall meeting in which Cruz also participated.

Yet DeSantis, they argue, is doing what he criticizes in others — advancing a narrative of his own when it comes to race relations.

“It is indeed hypocritical,” Cruz said.

Other recent comments have led many observers to a similar conclusion. During a May speech to a conservative Michigan college, Corcoran spoke about the need to “keep all the crazy liberal stuff out” of instructional material.

The State Board is scheduled to consider updates to standards relating to civics and Holocaust education in July.


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11 Jun 2021, 3:09 pm

This is all about religion. From the etymology: Religare, Italian for "to tie". That which ties us together.

I present you with two choices! Choose the secular, enlightenment, universalist, modernist religion; or choose the Hegelian, Marxist, group-oriented, grievance religion of Critical Theories.

There are no third options available! ;-)

Not a fan of woke-ness anymore. It sucks though that means I am in league with Conservatives. I do not think woke-ness is a good religion for the modern age, or any age, really. It does not recognize that the biggest Oppressor is reality itself, which is independent of any group. Science is not a white male thing, it is a process of applied doubt. CRT fans are 100% certain they are right, and also that you are "problematic."

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11 Jun 2021, 5:40 pm

tensordyne wrote:
This is all about religion. From the etymology: Religare, Italian for "to tie". That which ties us together.

I present you with two choices! Choose the secular, enlightenment, universalist, modernist religion; or choose the Hegelian, Marxist, group-oriented, grievance religion of Critical Theories.

There are no third options available! ;-)

Not a fan of woke-ness anymore. It sucks though that means I am in league with Conservatives. I do not think woke-ness is a good religion for the modern age, or any age, really. It does not recognize that the biggest Oppressor is reality itself, which is independent of any group. Science is not a white male thing, it is a process of applied doubt. CRT fans are 100% certain they are right, and also that you are "problematic."

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Exactly.



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11 Jun 2021, 11:09 pm

Brictoria wrote:
Who would be better placed to speak on the similarity between Mao's cultural revolution and CRT: some anonymous person making assertions who is unable to provide any evidence in support of those assertions at the time they made them, or a person with personal (first-hand) experience of both who points out the similarities based on their experience at the time of making their assertion?


You are banking on this woman's assertions because they nicely align with your views on CRT.

Her views aren't really that earth shattering since
1. East Asians living the US who came from communist states generally vote republican because they are taught to associate the democrats with socialism. Many eastern Europeans and Cubans do the same.
2. East Asians associate university quotas with democrats which favor non-Asian students from a POC background over their kids
3. East Asians tend to be white adjacent in their outlook and have no interest in BLM or CRT. Confucianism teaches them to ally with those in power in order to achieve your goals.

I don't believe a word this woman is saying Brictoria, its is quite literally hyperbole/lip service that has no merit



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11 Jun 2021, 11:17 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
the Republican faults that party is trying to protect their kids from being indoctrinated by a marxist, racist ideology that is going to make their kids hate themselves that vote may very well be Republican.


I agree they believe this narrative because its one that has already been passed down from previous generations so the republicans are literally "speaking to the converted"

I also agree that left wing social activists do have to review their strategy as the republicans are using devious propaganda to make social inclusion appear like racism/communism to receptive ears who were already jittery about their kids going to school with black or other kids of colour.



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11 Jun 2021, 11:31 pm

[quote="ASPartOfMe"]This news item would fit in the conservative cancel culture thread but it is closely related to the topic of this thread.
Florida bans use of critical race theory, “1619 Project” in teaching history
[quote]

My understanding is that Florida is one a number of republican dominated states to ban CRT,

The initiative stems from fears over the 1619 project where parents do not want their children to learn American history about slavery explicitly forbidding any idea that racism is in any way systemic or “embedded in American society.”

How ironic, this would fall under my definition of censorship.

An interesting inclusion in this republican inspired "new-speak" is to refer to the Tulsa race massacre as Tulsa race riot whereby white students are protected from hearing about the cause of the riot and learn that it was like some type of dispute.

There are penalties for teachers mentioning the Tulsa riot or the 1619 project amounting to $5000 in the state of Kentucky and up to $10,000 in the state of Florida. Teachers in Florida will be put on mandatory probation where they will be reviewed for 12 months during which time they can have their contracts terminated at any time if they dare mention racism in the these red states.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/petergreen ... 24a5d4a3d8

According to the article Governor Ron DeSantis is using this issue as an opportunity to raise his 2024 Presidential profile, and so he would have no reason to be concerned about what, exactly, teachers are supposed to not do. With the ban in place, teacher training courses will have to cover the question of what new teachers should avoid; ironically, the ban will virtually guarantee that critical race theory will now be taught in every college teacher training program in the state. :lol:



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12 Jun 2021, 6:52 am

cyberdad wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Who would be better placed to speak on the similarity between Mao's cultural revolution and CRT: some anonymous person making assertions who is unable to provide any evidence in support of those assertions at the time they made them, or a person with personal (first-hand) experience of both who points out the similarities based on their experience at the time of making their assertion?


You are banking on this woman's assertions because they nicely align with your views on CRT.


It obviously escaped your attention (not sure how, given I only typed two sentences of my own in the post) that I hadn't passed any judgement on the subject matter, merely providing the link as a counterpoint to the typical "anti-white" bias behind your assertion that it was obnoxious racist parents who had been "pushed" into getting vocal about the subject.

cyberdad wrote:
Her views aren't really that earth shattering since
1. East Asians living the US who came from communist states generally vote republican because they are taught to associate the democrats with socialism. Many eastern Europeans and Cubans do the same.


I realise it's probably a foreign concept to you, but had you considered those leaving Socialist countries would have a much better understanding of Socialism that you do, and that maybe they have looked at the policies and made decisions on their own about what they see there and how it connects with what occurred in their previous countries...

It also comes across as rather condescending to make assertions (such as you did) that people only make decisions because they are "taught to" and so follow like sheep, rather than treating them as individuals capable of making their own decisions based upon thier own lived experience.

cyberdad wrote:
2. East Asians associate university quotas with democrats which favor non-Asian students from a POC background over their kids

I wonder why that may be... Could it be that there is something behind their belief that the Democrats aren't working in their favor regarding education, whilst the Republicans are?
Quote:
The Biden administration announced on Wednesday it had dropped a discrimination lawsuit against Yale University, which alleged that the institution was illegally discriminating against Asian American and white applicants.

While a judge must still sign off on the decision, justice department officials noted in the two-sentence filing in the US district court in Connecticut that it would voluntarily dismiss the action that had been filed by Donald Trump’s administration in October.

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/feb/03/yale-discrimination-lawsuit-biden-justice-department

cyberdad wrote:
3. East Asians tend to be white adjacent in their outlook and have no interest in BLM or CRT. Confucianism teaches them to ally with those in power in order to achieve your goals.


Again with those race-based stereotypes and generalisations, treating people as unable to make their own decisions around each parties policies in order to determine which suits their personal circumstances, instead expecting them to sit down and do what their masters tell them to do (see point 1. above)...

cyberdad wrote:
I don't believe a word this woman is saying Brictoria, its is quite literally hyperbole/lip service that has no merit


So, who is a more believeble person to listen to on the subject:
A person explaining their lived experience and showing how features of CRT (or what was being done in its name) aligned with that, OR
A person who expects others to take their word on a subject (yet is incapable of providing any evidence\facts when making their assertions), and who relies on racial stereotyping to support claims they make...


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12 Jun 2021, 7:45 am

Ironically under CRT this east Asian woman would have more right speak about race in America than you or I Brictoria :lol:

Perhaps she might be shooting herself in the foot criticising CRT when it gives her a platform to speak about race as a POC.



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12 Jun 2021, 1:20 pm

This whole topic is flawed beyond fixing. Conservatives scream about liberal values while continuing to defund inner-cities, enact anti-LGBT laws, and just always work to stack the game ever in their favor. This drive is so strong, that one of their number even recently suggested a Myanmar-style of coup to make it permanent (General Flynn).

So called "Black Culture" (Cornel West, et. al) in the US is now being linked with Marxist Black Nationalist Utopian dribble because of CRT. Fighting institutionalized white racism with an intellectually rationalized form of black racism (oops, black people can't be racist, I forgot... Offered as an example of the tortured logic from that line of thinking), seems like fighting fire with fire. Unfortunately, all of us are the kindling for this bonfire of stupidity.

What a deleterious situation to be in for the old U. S. of A.


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12 Jun 2021, 8:53 pm

tensordyne wrote:
So called "Black Culture" (Cornel West, et. al) in the US is now being linked with Marxist Black Nationalist Utopian dribble because of CRT.


Cornell West and Henry Louis Gates Jr. are Harvard educated historians and intellectuals who basically document the history of black Americans. How exactly is being a historian associated with marxism?

This seems to be the fundamental objection to CRT and the 1619 project. "I don't want my white kids to hear about what happened to slaves"