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Nades
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08 Jun 2021, 3:01 pm

I've finally had a terrible tenant and he is the worst by far.

I'm in the mood for a vent about him so I might list his mishaps from the start of the tenancy.

:-He moves in and fails to put the gas and electric accounts in his name and instead uses up mine for about two weeks
:- A phone call "The boiler is broken can you come and fix it??..........He doesn't answer his phone for three weeks.
:-3 weeks later we look at the boiler, water has been flooding through the roof into the boiler for about a month while he failed to respond to loads of calls and letters for that time.
:-Tried to fix the boiler himself instead, scared the living daylights out of everyone in the process
:- Urinates in a bucket in the living room while the builder is fixing the roof. Doesn't even attempt to be subtle about it or use the toilet.
:-Throws food out the front of the door into the pavement and once so far it went into the car park opposite about 30 feet away......he does this for months before several people in the street and me threaten him with environmental health.
:-Knocks on a woman's door a few houses up unannounced.........asks for time with one of her friends for a "good price" while touching himself in a questionable area on the doorstep.
:-Goes to the women in the house below.....asks her too.
:-Ignores a gas leak and neighbours have to get the gas company over to tear up the pavement outside the front of the house.
:-Neighbours say rats are in the house and he's started throwing food out the back door now.
:- A week later and neighbours say they seen him feed the rats in the kitchen.
:- This Sunday yet another gas leak that he ignored that I had to sort out this time. Minutes after the gas company arrived I decided enough is enough and for the first time in almost a decade of being a landlord I finally barged into a house unannounced and went room by room looking for a tenant....more specifically him. I searched the living room, the kitchen, his bedroom, toilet and back room and he's vanished off the face of the earth leaving a mountain of trash and all his furniture behind along with this weird stick brown residue all over the floors which I assume to be faecal matter.

It truly is impressive how one person could have built up so much trash of seemingly zero monetary value in such a short space of time but at least he appears to have left now. I'll have to sit and wait if he comes back but pray that he doesn't as the entire street including a business want him to go and are putting pressure on me boot him out immediately, legally or not.

This is an utterly pointless topic anyway but obviously I'm looking for lashings of sympathy, saying how wonderfully patient I've been with him (until Sunday that is, ignore the Sunday) and how much of a bad boy the tenant has been. My fragile self-esteem needs to be massaged otherwise I'll eat to many Guylian seashells and ice cream again.



magz
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08 Jun 2021, 3:13 pm

Wow. Just wow.
It's possibly some mental condition but you're unlucky to pay the cost... can some officials help you with damage control?


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Fnord
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08 Jun 2021, 3:19 pm

After reading your list, I did a google search for "tenant sins list".

 99 Warning Signs You Shouldn’t Rent To That Tenant 

GACH! :eew:

I mean, I have had bad neighbors in apartments before, but I never knew ALL of the crap that goes on!

You have my sympathies on this.


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Nades
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08 Jun 2021, 3:29 pm

magz wrote:
Wow. Just wow.
It's possibly some mental condition but you're unlucky to pay the cost... can some officials help you with damage control?


Ironically his brother is a doctor and his sister is the trustee of his trust that was given to him by his father who I assume has died. The brother seems to be very sympathetic and exasperated and while I tried to call social services they said they were powerless without the tenants consent to help him. To be honest I don't know whether to keep quiet about my strong suspicions of him moving out as it's the trustee who pays rent, not the tenant and from what I gather they don't communicate much at all.

I'm thinking I can milk the trustee for another few months at least to recoup some of the money for repairs and thenclaim he abandon the house and plea ignorant to the fact multiple people in the street told me on Sunday that they spotted him mid/late May packing belongings into the back of a car never to be seen since. If the trustee or some do-gooder local authority take the tenants side I'm sure I can get about 10 ill tempered people in the street to tell whatever white lie two whoever I need to get him out for good.

It'll need a new kitchen, new carpets throughout and painted top to bottom along with a pest controller.



Nades
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08 Jun 2021, 3:37 pm

Fnord wrote:
After reading your list, I did a google search for "tenant sins list".

 99 Warning Signs You Shouldn’t Rent To That Tenant 

GACH! :eew:

I mean, I have had bad neighbors in apartments before, but I never knew ALL of the crap that goes on!

You have my sympathies on this.


Incredibly he managed to pass vetting from an official vetting company with flying colours. Clearly the vetting company employs 2 year olds or all the references lied.

I might have to insist on a list of previous addresses any potential tenant has lived at because landlords will say anything to get rid of a bad tenant. Old Neighbours on the other hand often want to complain about people who lived next door who were/are a pain in the backside.



Fnord
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08 Jun 2021, 4:07 pm

Nades wrote:
... I'm thinking I can milk the trustee for another few months at least to recoup some of the money for repairs and thenclaim he abandon the house and plea ignorant to the fact multiple people in the street told me on Sunday that they spotted him mid/late May packing belongings into the back of a car never to be seen since...
Be careful with this.

If, G^D forbid, he was to pass away, and the time of his passing was several months before you claimed him as having moved out, you could face criminal action for fraud against his trustees/guardians.


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Nades
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08 Jun 2021, 4:20 pm

Fnord wrote:
Nades wrote:
... I'm thinking I can milk the trustee for another few months at least to recoup some of the money for repairs and thenclaim he abandon the house and plea ignorant to the fact multiple people in the street told me on Sunday that they spotted him mid/late May packing belongings into the back of a car never to be seen since...
Be careful with this.

If, G^D forbid, he was to pass away, and the time of his passing was several months before you claimed him as having moved out, you could face criminal action for fraud against his trustees/guardians.


In the UK the law on abandonment is strange. There is no official term of what tenant abandonment is and instead it's intentionally left very grey and vague with massive variations in time frames. The law also says the landlord needs to keep well away from interacting with the tenant without cause. It's not unreasonable for a landlord to possibly go 6 months to a year before realising a tenant has abandon the property for that entire time.

The onus is largely on the tenant to show signs of abandonment like not paying rent and removal of furniture but so far he has done neither. The rent is paid by the trustee (after some pestering, she's not the most punctual) and all his furniture is still in the house. They would have a hard time proving I knew he was gone and the legal line between assuming he's gone, knowing he's gone and legally proving he's gone is anyone's guess.

I instructed my letting agents to ask the trustee where he might have gone but also made it clear to them that he's still liable for rent and legally the tenant until he hands the keys in or gives notice.

It's tricky indeed and the first time I've been in this position before. The trustee is either hugely beneficial to me or a massive determent in proving he's vacated. If it's the latter then I'll take them for a ride because there is little else I can do other than a pointless eviction of a tenant that never was.



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08 Jun 2021, 4:35 pm

Do you have Tenancy Act legislation where you live that dictates what remedies you have and how to legally go about them?

Do you have a Rental Agreement signed with him? Does it specify any specific behaviours or actions he's taken that would enable you to evict him legally? Property damage.. infringing on others rights to the quiet enjoyment of their shared space or neighbouring property, refusal to communicate with the Landlord or contractors, failure to report damage to the building & it's systems that require immediate repair to prevent further damage or hazards etc.

And if your entirely arrangement is informal with no contract nor laws governing your relationship with him, change the locks, have all abandoned rubbish removed & disposed of, clean and repair the unit and re-rent it to anyone else.


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Nades
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08 Jun 2021, 4:47 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Do you have Tenancy Act legislation where you live that dictates what remedies you have and how to legally go about them?

Do you have a Rental Agreement signed with him? Does it specify any specific behaviours or actions he's taken that would enable you to evict him legally? Property damage.. infringing on others rights to the quiet enjoyment of their shared space or neighbouring property, refusal to communicate with the Landlord or contractors, failure to report damage to the building & it's systems that require immediate repair to prevent further damage or hazards etc.

And if your entirely arrangement is informal with no contract nor laws governing your relationship with him, change the locks, have all abandoned rubbish removed & disposed of, clean and repair the unit and re-rent it to anyone else.


He's broken pretty much every ground of tenancy legislation. I'll add another part to the sin list too

:- Failed to declare he had a trustee paying the rent, instead he said he would pay for it with a pension and housing benefit that he wasn't entitled to due to his trust............

Like I touched on in the reply to Fnord, abandonment is a touchy subject in the UK from a legal perspective. In 2016 they added a much clearer definition of abandonment due to all the confusion and guessing but the criteria for enacting the 2016 definition of abandonment required a tenant to fall into arrears which mine might well not. I could specifically tell the trustee to intentionally not pay me rent but again that's a direct instruction from me and not due to the tenants actions and will probably do nothing other than reducing money in my account. I doubt I can tell a trustee not to pay with the sole intention of terminating a tenancy via 2016's legislation on abandonment. It might be an illegal eviction in the courts eyes.

As far as I'm concerned, if he's left his bed and documents behind the trustee needs to pay me rent for the time being. After a few more months then I might consider it genuinely abandoned regardless of his furniture.

It's a very interesting legal predicament but amazingly one that seems to be working in my favour for the time being which is almost unheard of for a landlord in the UK.

The tenancy was all done above board too. In my area landlords need licences unless the houses are managed by a letting agent. I happen to have both so I can largely do as I please within reason and sneak behind the letting agents back if I need to.



goldfish21
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08 Jun 2021, 5:35 pm

Sounds like the situation is balancing itself out a little here.. he's not occupying the premises, yet his rent is automatically paid.. might be the ideal tenant for the foreseeable future.

Until he returns and causes more problems.. which I would assume all prior problems have been documented so you have grounds to evict him legally whenever you want to, ya?


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Nades
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08 Jun 2021, 5:43 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Sounds like the situation is balancing itself out a little here.. he's not occupying the premises, yet his rent is automatically paid.. might be the ideal tenant for the foreseeable future.

Until he returns and causes more problems.. which I would assume all prior problems have been documented so you have grounds to evict him legally whenever you want to, ya?


If he has abandon the house an eviction, assuming I would want to evict him will be 100% certain as he won't even be able to read the eviction notices or attend court because he's not at the address. An eviction is pretty much certain even if he is still living at the house anyway. I've kept track of everything and even have a copy of the pest controller report when next door had to get the pest controller around for rats in their attic clearly stating they;re in next doors attic because the tenant keeps throwing trash out.

The rent isn't automatically paid. The trustee seems to refuse to set up a standing order and only pays after pestering from the letting agent each month but is nonetheless someone to ask for rent. If I want to I can let him fall into arrears that way and look to kick him out via the 2016 criteria for abandonment. All I'll need to do is not ask for rent and they'll forget to pay.

As far as I'm concerned, until his bed goes I can ask the trustee for now to keep paying.



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08 Jun 2021, 11:04 pm

Nades wrote:
I've finally had a terrible tenant and he is the worst by far.

I'm in the mood for a vent about him so I might list his mishaps from the start of the tenancy.

:-He moves in and fails to put the gas and electric accounts in his name and instead uses up mine for about two weeks
:- A phone call "The boiler is broken can you come and fix it??..........He doesn't answer his phone for three weeks.
:-3 weeks later we look at the boiler, water has been flooding through the roof into the boiler for about a month while he failed to respond to loads of calls and letters for that time.
:-Tried to fix the boiler himself instead, scared the living daylights out of everyone in the process
:- Urinates in a bucket in the living room while the builder is fixing the roof. Doesn't even attempt to be subtle about it or use the toilet.
:-Throws food out the front of the door into the pavement and once so far it went into the car park opposite about 30 feet away......he does this for months before several people in the street and me threaten him with environmental health.
:-Knocks on a woman's door a few houses up unannounced.........asks for time with one of her friends for a "good price" while touching himself in a questionable area on the doorstep.
:-Goes to the women in the house below.....asks her too.
:-Ignores a gas leak and neighbours have to get the gas company over to tear up the pavement outside the front of the house.
:-Neighbours say rats are in the house and he's started throwing food out the back door now.
:- A week later and neighbours say they seen him feed the rats in the kitchen.
:- This Sunday yet another gas leak that he ignored that I had to sort out this time. Minutes after the gas company arrived I decided enough is enough and for the first time in almost a decade of being a landlord I finally barged into a house unannounced and went room by room looking for a tenant....more specifically him. I searched the living room, the kitchen, his bedroom, toilet and back room and he's vanished off the face of the earth leaving a mountain of trash and all his furniture behind along with this weird stick brown residue all over the floors which I assume to be faecal matter.

It truly is impressive how one person could have built up so much trash of seemingly zero monetary value in such a short space of time but at least he appears to have left now. I'll have to sit and wait if he comes back but pray that he doesn't as the entire street including a business want him to go and are putting pressure on me boot him out immediately, legally or not.

This is an utterly pointless topic anyway but obviously I'm looking for lashings of sympathy, saying how wonderfully patient I've been with him (until Sunday that is, ignore the Sunday) and how much of a bad boy the tenant has been. My fragile self-esteem needs to be massaged otherwise I'll eat to many Guylian seashells and ice cream again.


you are dealing with a mentally ill, criminal, homeless person who is a nuissance.



Nades
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09 Jun 2021, 4:44 am

idntonkw wrote:
Nades wrote:
I've finally had a terrible tenant and he is the worst by far.

I'm in the mood for a vent about him so I might list his mishaps from the start of the tenancy.

:-He moves in and fails to put the gas and electric accounts in his name and instead uses up mine for about two weeks
:- A phone call "The boiler is broken can you come and fix it??..........He doesn't answer his phone for three weeks.
:-3 weeks later we look at the boiler, water has been flooding through the roof into the boiler for about a month while he failed to respond to loads of calls and letters for that time.
:-Tried to fix the boiler himself instead, scared the living daylights out of everyone in the process
:- Urinates in a bucket in the living room while the builder is fixing the roof. Doesn't even attempt to be subtle about it or use the toilet.
:-Throws food out the front of the door into the pavement and once so far it went into the car park opposite about 30 feet away......he does this for months before several people in the street and me threaten him with environmental health.
:-Knocks on a woman's door a few houses up unannounced.........asks for time with one of her friends for a "good price" while touching himself in a questionable area on the doorstep.
:-Goes to the women in the house below.....asks her too.
:-Ignores a gas leak and neighbours have to get the gas company over to tear up the pavement outside the front of the house.
:-Neighbours say rats are in the house and he's started throwing food out the back door now.
:- A week later and neighbours say they seen him feed the rats in the kitchen.
:- This Sunday yet another gas leak that he ignored that I had to sort out this time. Minutes after the gas company arrived I decided enough is enough and for the first time in almost a decade of being a landlord I finally barged into a house unannounced and went room by room looking for a tenant....more specifically him. I searched the living room, the kitchen, his bedroom, toilet and back room and he's vanished off the face of the earth leaving a mountain of trash and all his furniture behind along with this weird stick brown residue all over the floors which I assume to be faecal matter.

It truly is impressive how one person could have built up so much trash of seemingly zero monetary value in such a short space of time but at least he appears to have left now. I'll have to sit and wait if he comes back but pray that he doesn't as the entire street including a business want him to go and are putting pressure on me boot him out immediately, legally or not.

This is an utterly pointless topic anyway but obviously I'm looking for lashings of sympathy, saying how wonderfully patient I've been with him (until Sunday that is, ignore the Sunday) and how much of a bad boy the tenant has been. My fragile self-esteem needs to be massaged otherwise I'll eat to many Guylian seashells and ice cream again.


you are dealing with a mentally ill, criminal, homeless person who is a nuissance.


Don't worry. I'll make sure he goes soon enough in one form or another.



Nades
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12 Jun 2021, 7:38 am

Well.....the letting agent went around yesterday. She asked if I really wanted to see their report and when I said yes, I was told to sit down first.

The letting agent said they're keeping the bond, she didn't even ask me if I wanted it but made the decision anyway, not that I would have let him keep it in the first place. They also said they were going to evict him if he came back, again without even asking me.....which I was going to do myself the second I received news on him coming back.

The fact they're not even asking for my permission to evict him probably says it all. She said it was a house in one of the worst condition she's ever seen in her career and the street would be livid if he came back after the endless environmental problems he's caused.

They also sent the report to the trustee who will be badgered for more money to sort out all his junk.



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12 Jun 2021, 9:09 am

I’m in charge of a family members house and became a landlord.
The first tenants were constantly late on payments, ghosted me when I tried to call them, stole the central air heating and cooling unit, left a 50 gallon barrel full of dead deer parts from poaching ,and dumped their trash in the yard, 13 bags of it.What’s weird is they kept the inside of the house clean.Filed a police report on the air unit, but once they cut it up for the copper it’s a lost cause.
The new ones have been on time with the rent so far......


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12 Jun 2021, 9:37 am

Can totally relate OP, we have a property we rent to people in south Manchester and they are exactly the same, they don't just use the bins like every other person they literally launch their rubbish into the alley way at the back where little kids play. The house is absolutely wrecked, they've ripped half the wallpaper off for literally no reason and it's all in tatters, massive holes in the plaster board and the carpets look literally like they've been eating them they're that messed up.

I walked back there once and seen a whole cooked chicken that was just thrown there and rats eating it, they don't have any consideration for their neighbours at all.

My brother in law literally said putting properties on rent is worse than eating s**t because these tenants just do not care at all. We've had so many noise complaints from neighbours as well.

We think we found a way around it though by saying professional tenants only and will require to see a CV. It's mega stressful. You give people a lovely home with nice white walls/plush grey carpets and fully tiled bathrooms and they give you back a f*****g renovation project... Thousands absolutely wasted.

In the end we had to threaten this guy to leave or we'll break his f*****g face in cause in the UK they can pull that nonsense with staying and not paying and he thought he could get away with not paying 2 months rent, not with us though thankfully we made him run for the hills.

Never renting to non professionals again it's just not safe. Even then you run the risk of people just pretending to be professionals and they're like on the dole and made it all up.

I swear if I wasn't part of a rough Pakistani family they would take the absolute piss. It's funny when I go to the properties with my husband and they're like totally shocked cause they didn't know I was interracially married, they totally change their tune after that. Idiots.


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