Rejection based on “personality test”

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QFT
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14 Jun 2021, 12:14 pm

I am near sighted, and have been ever since I was 18, but I decided not to wear glasses in order to train my eyes. So, after getting used to seeing things blurry for many years, I automatically assume others are the same. As a result, over 3 years ago, I was obsessing whether my roommate thought that my then-girlfriend was a man (and thus labeled me gay) because he only got to see her over the distance.

Now I admit that even with nearsightedness and all, I wouldn’t have ever thought he would think that, if it wasn’t for me obsessing that he saw me as gay long before my then-girlfriend came along. What happened was that when I first moved in there I mentioned to him that I moved from the nearby apartment because of that other roommate mentioning he is gay. He sort of looked at me weird when I said this and after that he was rather mean towards me (particularly with telling me off when I leave messes). So I suspected that maybe telling him I moved away from gay roommate made him suspect I am closeted gay and that’s why he got mean towards me. Looking back though I realize that there is no reason to think that. For one thing he is not the only roommate I had that had issues with my leaving messes. But fact remains: I only realize it in retrospect. I didn’t realize it back then.

In any case, the topic of this thread is NOT either that roommate or past girlfriend, the topic is current girlfriend. So what happened is that, when I mentioned to my current girlfriend how I thought my past girlfriend looked like a guy, she treated it as a deal breaker. No fight, no confrontation, no nothing. Just a robotic “well you thought that other girl looked like a guy, I am done”. What I don’t get is why would she treat it as a deal breaker of that magnitude despite the fact that

a) It was over 3 years ago
b) It pertained to a girl she doesn’t even know
c) I explained to her what I explained to you above (although she didn’t pay attention)
d) I have no control over how I perceive someone to be

So what would have happened if, instead of my ex, we had a picture book. Let’s say she would have asked me to tell her the gender of someone pictured in the book, and let’s say I were to guess that gender wrong. Would she have said, robotically, “wrong answer. I am done”. I mean that’s how it felt like! Hence the title of this post.

Or here is even better example. My mom was listening to YouTube lecture by some man who had a really high voice. I mistakenly thought it was a woman. My mom didn’t make a big deal over it, she just told me it was a man and that was it. But what would have happened if in place of my mom there was my girlfriend? Would she break up with me over that? If so, why?!

To be fair, there are two aggravating circumstances when it comes to the current girlfriend. In particular,

e) our relationship was rocky for the past few months. In fact, she tried to break up with me multiple times past few months, and each time she only came back after I begged her. As a matter of fact, just a week before I sent her a message about my ex was one example of this.

f) When I sent her the message about my ex, I didn’t “just” tell her about saying she looks like a man. Rather, I sent her a three page essay filled with lots of different things I did wrong, this was just one of them. And she, in fact, did tell me that it was the whole thing that I wrote rather than just one of the things

This however doesn’t change the fact that she said that my mentioning she looked like a man was enough to be done. I don’t get it how she can say it given that I can’t control how my eyes perceive someone, and that said someone isn’t her friend or anything, and especially since it was over 3 years ago.



BeaArthur
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14 Jun 2021, 2:26 pm

You've explicated quite a few of your thought processes in this one post, and I think it is the totality of their irrationality, dare I say weirdness, that floored her. And then also you say she had broken up with you several times and only came back because you begged her. Don't beg, it isn't manly. I think she was just looking for the "final straw" and this thing about thinking someone thought your old girlfriend looked like a man from a distance with bad vision that you assume other people have since you do, well, that was the final straw. Honestly, it could have been any of a number of other things, she was just waiting for the final straw and it did break the camel's (the relationship's) back.

edited to add: by the way, if someone tells you "we are done," you can't refer to them as your current girlfriend; you must start referring to them as your former girlfriend or your recent girlfriend.


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Fnord
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14 Jun 2021, 3:01 pm

A man who would insult past girlfriends is more likely to insult present girlfriends.  It does not matter if the insult is valid or not.  If anything needs to be said, "It just never worked out" is sufficient.

Consider every discussion with a girlfriend as a discussion with your employer, and say nothing that would indicate that you are anything less than a loyal person who makes a sincere effort to maintain the relationship.


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14 Jun 2021, 3:52 pm

Whoa--I am dizzy! That's a lot to take in, and considering it's just a synopsis of what you told your recent ex, I'd say you practically spelled out every excuse she'd ever need to break up with you. It's not exactly the content, mind you--although an essay on your faults may prove otherwise--but the fact that you felt it was all relevant and she needed to know every...single...detail. You say she didn't pay attention. Perhaps she had run out of attention to give.

Sometimes less really is more.



QFT
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20 Jun 2021, 10:15 am

Fnord wrote:
A man who would insult past girlfriends is more likely to insult present girlfriends.


Insulting is a purposeful act. But if I mis-evaluated how someone looks that is not a purposeful act, thats just how I see it. If a nearly-blind person does it, would that also amount to insult?

I know what I just said sounds silly since I am not nearly-blind so I don't have that excuse. But the point is that I actually asked her to tell me whether it is "a" or "b":

a) The problem is "not" what I perceived but "rather" that I verbalized it
b) The problem is, in fact, that I perceived it that way

She said its "b", and that is precisely what makes it so unfair. How can "b" amount to insulting someone or any other purposeful act for that matter? The only way I could think how "b" could be my fault is if it was a consequence of my taking some mind-altering drugs. But since I didn't take any drugs, how can it be my fault then?

Fnord wrote:
Consider every discussion with a girlfriend as a discussion with your employer, and say nothing that would indicate that you are anything less than a loyal person who makes a sincere effort to maintain the relationship.


Good analogy. Maybe I have different perspective than most people because I never applied for a real job? All I was doing my adult life was going to grad schools and post docs. Yes, they have application process, but it is usually just a written application, without any interview. I had just one interview for one specific postdoc that I failed.

But now that you got me to think about it, I think the way job interview is done is also unfair. Why can't an employer understand that if someone says bad things about themselves then that person might not be any worse than other candidates, they are just being more honest?

Now, you could ask "if they aren't looking at things being said. what else are they supposed to do" Okay, one thing they could do is to keep asking questions about things they "are" concerned about, and evaluate people based on how they answer "those" questions. If someone volunteers some information "outside" of what is being asked, then go ahead and ask that question to everyone else that was interviewed and thus evaluate if this person is truly different or is just more open.

By the way I also don't understand about dress code at the interviews. What exactly are they testing? A skill or a habbit? If they are testing a skill, this doesn't cut it: anybody has a skill to buy a nice dress and put it on. If they are testing a habbit, that doesn't cut it either: most of their current employers don't wear anything nearly as nice as what they wore when they came to the interview. So what IS the point then?

I think negatively judging someone at the interview EITHER for not wearing a nice dress OR for volunteering negative information about themselves that they weren't asked, is equally unfair. In both cases they are judging one person without realizing that everyone else is just as bad, they just hid it.

Going back to the subject of girls, what would be your thoughts with regards to volunteering negative information to girls with whom dating was not discussed yet? Would you say that since its not an interview "yet", I can go ahead and volunteer negative information? Or would you say that the very fact that the girl talks to me is an implicit signal that she considers dating me and so yes it is an interview?

In case of the girl talked about in this thread, yes we were officially dating. I am just trying to use this occasion to understand some of the things that happened with some of the other girls in the past. In particular, I am thinking of a girl back in 2005 who rejected me for two reasons: one was the negative information that I shared, and the other was her bipolar. So, since she wasn't ready due to bipolar, then her approaching me and starting to talk to me was not an interview, was it? Or are you saying that it was, and her bipolar was just a way of letting me down easy?



DW_a_mom
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21 Jun 2021, 9:07 pm

QFT wrote:
Fnord wrote:
A man who would insult past girlfriends is more likely to insult present girlfriends.


Insulting is a purposeful act. But if I mis-evaluated how someone looks that is not a purposeful act, thats just how I see it.


You are very good at focusing on your own perspective, while showing little care about the other person's. Simple fact: someone can be insulted without you meaning to insult them. Don't think of insults as a purposeful act; think of them as something that happens all the time by accident, and that the other person has a right to feel insulted by you even if you didn't intend it.

It is insulting to most women to say they look like a man.

If you want a comment to be considered in light of surrounding context, then make a point of including the surrounding context. For example, "without glasses from a distance I couldn't tell if she was female or male, my fault, for not wearing glasses and for not being cognizant of all the other obvious ways to see the difference, even when blurred."

I confess that all your tangents are throwing me for a loop. You talk about difficulties acquiring friends and relationships and then talk here about "your girlfriend." For someone who dissects what others say so precisely, you do not seem to do a great job of speaking precisely. I get that your thirst for information drives you, but can you see how unequal you make your conversations because of that? You put yourself in the position of "take," focusing on your need for information, while expecting those you converse with to constantly "give," without you showing concern for their needs.


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KimD
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21 Jun 2021, 10:45 pm

QFT, it seems to be that a lot of your questions, such as those about what's being assessed and what's valued, can be boiled down to a couple of things, succinctly: good manners and sound judgement (i.e. the way a person dresses for an interview). They can be amorphous at times, but are still highly desirable and can indeed be considered skills. You can learn about manners by studying a culture, and polish judgement through observation, reflection, consulting knowledgeable people, and experience.

At any point in life, people deciding who they want to be with will take into account all sorts of things, and if they decide that the way a person dresses matters as much as [whatever], well, it’s their choice to make! An interviewer may consider that your skills outweigh the sloppy clothes you might be wearing, or they may decide that your decision-making skills are too weak, because who doesn’t try to make a good first impression?

Some people and some circumstances are more forgiving of lapses in judgement and ill manners but, as DW says, it's entirely possible to insult someone unintentionally. Even if the insult isn’t directed at them, someone may come to some important conclusions based on how you talk about other people. The next time you’re in doubt, remember the truism, “if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all.”



QFT
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22 Jun 2021, 2:06 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
You talk about difficulties acquiring friends and relationships and then talk here about "your girlfriend."


Actually she *was* my girlfriend, up until the day before I wrote this post, when she became my ex.

It is true, however, that we haven't done any of the "girlfriend things". She didn't even bother to make herself available for me to call her, and didn't bother arranging the opportunity to meet (yes we were in a different state, but she was willing to travel for a family vacation, just not to meet me).

That, however, doesn't change the fact that she *called herself* my girlfriend. In fact, I made a post where I vented about the situations such as this one. No, I haven't specifically talked about her in that post, since it is not the first time that happened. But I very much DID have her in mind as I was writing it. Here it is: viewtopic.php?t=397846



nick007
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29 Jun 2021, 10:26 am

Fnord wrote:
A man who would insult past girlfriends is more likely to insult present girlfriends.  It does not matter if the insult is valid or not.  If anything needs to be said, "It just never worked out" is sufficient.

Consider every discussion with a girlfriend as a discussion with your employer, and say nothing that would indicate that you are anything less than a loyal person who makes a sincere effort to maintain the relationship.
I knew a girl who broke up with her bf who she liked because he did not tell her why him & his exes had broken up. All he said about them was just that things didn't work out & she was worried that he was trying to coverup some giant flaw of his that she didn't know about yet like he might of really been abusive or something. She posted about it on the forum me & her used & most every woman who posted said he sounded very suspicious by not giving her all the details of what his exes were like & why the relationships ended. He sounded like an OK guy to me & I kinda suspected that the women broke up with him for shallow superficial reasons or he might of broken up with them cuz they were abusive or something & he didn't wanna talk about it either way cuz he was embarrassed &/or it was painful for him to think about cuz he really cared about em & was majorly hurt. If he really was a bad guy he could have very easily come up with some lies to make himself out to be the victim & make them out to be abusive gold-diggers or whatever. Some people do not have a brain that is rational enough for them to decide for themselves using their own judgement. I bet that even if he had told her her the truth upfront & he didn't do anything wrong, she still woulda broken up with him. I think the moral is~ "Your d@mned if you do & your da@mned if you don't"


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29 Jun 2021, 11:57 am

↑ Anyone who is THAT suspicious/jealous is not worth the effort of keeping.


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nick007
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30 Jun 2021, 6:07 am

Fnord wrote:
↑ Anyone who is THAT suspicious/jealous is not worth the effort of keeping.
Agreed. That guy dodged a bullet. About a month later she was talking about being lonely & it was very hard for me to resist the urge to rub it in her face. Shortly after that I realized she was really nuts though. She was talking about how a former high-school teacher/coach of hers had sex with a student & he ended up killing himself after the sh!t went down & he got found out. My friend was actually blaming the girl he had sex with for him committing suicide. We got into a big debate & she kept going on about how the 17year-old girl was manipulative. Then she posted about it on the forum expecting people to take her side which of corse nobody did. Everyone quit debating it with her after a little bit because they realized it was a complete waste of their time. She def was missing some screws in her head but she seemed pretty normal & laid back about things till this stuff.


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