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serenaserenaserena
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15 Jun 2021, 6:27 pm

I understand why there is controversy surrounding the concept of Asperger's and why people find its associations to be harmful, but also, I for some reason still feel a bit of a connection to the term.

I suppose it's because Asperger's syndrome is the first thing that I read about and saw myself in, and it was my initial diagnosis before science accepted that the "differences" between Asperger's and autism were not really what people once believed them to be.

I know why they fully merged the two together in the DSM, and I also know why the way it's used today usually means negative and harmful things for people, but I guess what I'm saying is I just wish it was more of a situation where we as autistic people could reclaim it and use it for ourselves as we feel fit. Maybe "Asperger's" can just simply be more like a personality type within the autism spectrum, kind of like being an INFJ (from the 16-Personalities quiz) or something; it could be something more like a casual, non-serious specifier that one can claim for themselves while all still being autistic. It could just evolve into a whole new meaning altogether.

I suppose it also just comes down to a "why though?" I guess when you evaluate the reality of the situation, Asperger's is too widely used as something counterproductive, so it would probably be hard to morph its use into anything else. I don't know. My apologies if I offend anybody with this. It's just something I think about sometimes because Asperger's initially held that special place in my heart, before becoming educated on its history, usage, and negative complexities.


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ASPartOfMe
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15 Jun 2021, 7:41 pm

I don’t identify as that term because of the associations but do not begrudge anybody who does. I was diagnosed the year that diagnosis was taken away thus as per my signature was diagnosed with ASD under the the new diagnostic manual and Aspergers under the old manual.

At the time those bad associations were not known. I was all in with calling myself an Aspie and was upset the DSM was taking away the diagnosis that explained so much to me and made me find out there were others like me the very year I was diagnosed. I vigorously criticized the decision to remove the diagnose and advocated for bringing the Aspergers diagnosis back and if that could not be accomplished keeping the term as a colloquial identity.

Now that I do know about the associations I have no desire to cancel Hans Asperger or the word. That diagnoses and the terminology with it is an important positive part of my history. But that is what it is to me my history, not my current.


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Dandansson
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16 Jun 2021, 3:20 am

serenaserenaserena wrote:
I understand why there is controversy surrounding the concept of Asperger's and why people find its associations to be harmful, but also, I for some reason still feel a bit of a connection to the term.

Well I don't understand.



autisticelders
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16 Jun 2021, 3:55 am

I really don't care if others use it or not, the same thing that used to be Aspergers is now simply level 1 autism. I don't even use level numbers, "functioning" labels are really not good descriptors, I call myself autistic or say I have autism depending on the conversation (just as I am both diabetic and have diabetes) but that's another whole argument for some people. Best wishes. We can't all be the same or do the same, do what is right for you.



timf
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16 Jun 2021, 7:27 am

Hans Asperger is often associated with some criminal acts of the Nazi regime in WWII. However, he did identify what came to be called "Aspergers" after his death by observing the following traits;

“a lack of empathy, little ability to form friendships, one-sided conversations, intense absorption in a special interest, and clumsy movements”

He even thought this was a type of autism. Of the four boys he observed, one went on to be a professor of Astronomy and correct an error of Newton and another went on to be a Nobel laureate in literature.

I object to the label ASD for two reasons. Firstly, classical autism has usually been associated with severe brain damage and secondly that "D" means disorder which I do not see as applicable to a neurological variant. It would be like calling short people "disordered".

The history of the push to label children that are not easily processed by the monolithic educational industrial complex as disordered is described in the first chapter of the free pdf booklet "Aspergers - An Intentional Life".
http://christianpioneer.com/blogarchiev ... e_2017.pdf

I think as long as Aspergers remains a descriptor it is useful. If it is allowed to become a diagnosis like ASD, it begins to be an obstacle to actual understanding. So-called "professionals" often see the power to label something as the same thing as understanding it. The tragic Covid circus over the last year should demonstrate the damage caused by "professionals" whose actions exceed their actual understanding.



Dandansson
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16 Jun 2021, 9:05 am

timf wrote:
Hans Asperger is often associated with some criminal acts of the Nazi regime in WWII. However, he did identify what came to be called "Aspergers" after his death by observing the following traits;

“a lack of empathy, little ability to form friendships, one-sided conversations, intense absorption in a special interest, and clumsy movements”

He even thought this was a type of autism. Of the four boys he observed, one went on to be a professor of Astronomy and correct an error of Newton and another went on to be a Nobel laureate in literature.

I object to the label ASD for two reasons. Firstly, classical autism has usually been associated with severe brain damage and secondly that "D" means disorder which I do not see as applicable to a neurological variant. It would be like calling short people "disordered".

The history of the push to label children that are not easily processed by the monolithic educational industrial complex as disordered is described in the first chapter of the free pdf booklet "Aspergers - An Intentional Life".
http://christianpioneer.com/blogarchiev ... e_2017.pdf

I think as long as Aspergers remains a descriptor it is useful. If it is allowed to become a diagnosis like ASD, it begins to be an obstacle to actual understanding. So-called "professionals" often see the power to label something as the same thing as understanding it. The tragic Covid circus over the last year should demonstrate the damage caused by "professionals" whose actions exceed their actual understanding.

If you say that meltdowns are not disordered what do you say that it is?



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16 Jun 2021, 7:19 pm

I prefer "Aspie".

However, I know I was assessed under DSM-5 so I know I am officially Autism Spectrum Disorder, Level 1 (Mild). However, from the background information I provided, the Psychologist knew I did not have delayed early development of language skills so the written evaluation included the observation that I also displayed many of the qualities previously associated with the Asperger's diagnosis.

"Autie" is also OK with me.

And when I'm not speaking casually "Autistic" seems the most accurate...though I agree that in many conversations I might want to continue with an explanation about what that term means with respect to me. (This might be when I'd be most likely to use the word "Asperger's".)

I wouldn't object to "Autist" but I don't think I would typically use it myself.

But, maybe just use my name?

P.S. If you've met one Autistic then you've met one Autistic. I speak solely for myself and do not expect that others must share my opinions on this. I think of my Autism as being mostly a difference, not a disability, so I'm comfortable with speaking of it casually. If my Autism was more severe I would probably prefer to use terms with more gravitas.


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16 Jun 2021, 7:38 pm

Yes and no.

I don't like the word Asperger's (uh, such an ugly, cringing word to say!) but I do like its definition.

I don't feel comfortable being lumped together with autism, because autism means self and I am far from selfish at most times.

I do wish they didn't change the DVLMA5 (can't remember the exact current abbreviation so I just put that) because there ARE different forms of autism, and the spectrum is too wide to just be able to say "oh I have autism." Even if you type autism in the Google search its definition is not what describes me at all.

Asperger's is usually used to label people on the spectrum who are/were articulate as a child, had no speech delays, have some social skills that developed naturally, and whose symptoms are "spiky", "scattered" and very complex.


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naturalplastic
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17 Jun 2021, 9:47 am

I wish that Dr. Hans Asperger had been named "Leonardo Di Caprio", or "Arnold Anastasio" (the mobster famously gunned down by a rival gang while seated in a barber's chair in 1953).

So today we would be called something more melodic like "DiCaprians" , or "Anastasians" rather than the clunky "aspergians".

But other than that I am fine with it.



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17 Jun 2021, 2:16 pm

I AM PDD NOS



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17 Jun 2021, 2:19 pm

I DONT FIT aspergerss or classic autism but am on the spectrum,

more autistic savannt in certain areas

not brilliant though

so don't think fancy

behind in some ways in front in others

was tested



dragonsanddemons
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17 Jun 2021, 2:52 pm

I’m officially diagnosed with Asperger’s, but I’m nowhere near as mild/high-functioning as people typically think of with that, and I have enough trouble with even people who really know me overestimating me/my capabilities already. Probably under DSM V I would be level two, not one, but I probably got the AS diagnosis because I had no speech delay. And therefore I don’t really identify well with it. For me, I usually say I’m on the autism spectrum and let them draw their own conclusions about where I am on it.


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17 Jun 2021, 9:30 pm

I knew a guy who was very Aspergers and also just very mildly intellectually challenged. He got the greatest delight in going around saying "ASS-burgers" over and over and laughing himself silly. The best to him was when he got someone else to say it ("What is my diagnosis again?"). He would laugh so hard he'd cry.

That's what I can't help but think of when I hear "Aspergers". :D


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Dandansson
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18 Jun 2021, 7:31 am

naturalplastic wrote:
I wish that Dr. Hans Asperger had been named "Leonardo Di Caprio", or "Arnold Anastasio" (the mobster famously gunned down by a rival gang while seated in a barber's chair in 1953).

So today we would be called something more melodic like "DiCaprians" , or "Anastasians" rather than the clunky "aspergians".

But other than that I am fine with it.

I don't really care what they call it.
As long as they don't call it Wojciechowski's syndrome I am happy.



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18 Jun 2021, 10:40 am

I don't like the term for two basic reasons: it is scientifically inaccurate and its history to its eponymous discoverer.

I can certainly understand people using it. I personally don't mind. However, I also think there is a potential downside of creating two autistics groups, one superior to another, when there is no such division. But that is also a social issue with the negative associations with autism. Hopefully, we can create a better understanding and acceptance of autism where people don't feel the need for the distinction.



funeralxempire
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18 Jun 2021, 10:43 am

WhatTheHey wrote:
I knew a guy who was very Aspergers and also just very mildly intellectually challenged. He got the greatest delight in going around saying "ASS-burgers" over and over and laughing himself silly. The best to him was when he got someone else to say it ("What is my diagnosis again?"). He would laugh so hard he'd cry.

That's what I can't help but think of when I hear "Aspergers". :D


I feel like ass-burgers should always be preceded by a Peter Griffin laugh. :mrgreen:


What type of buns do ass-burgers come on? :nerdy:


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Last edited by funeralxempire on 18 Jun 2021, 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.