Can you tell someone else is also on the spectrum?

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Benjamin the Donkey
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17 Jun 2021, 10:07 am

Fnord wrote:
Ahh ... but how did you find out?

You cannot know someone is on the spectrum until your suspicion is confirmed -- you can only suspect that someone is on the spectrum until then.

Knowledge and suspicion are not the same thing.  If it was otherwise, then every person suspected of murder would be executed before even going to trial.


In the case I mentioned above, it came out in conversation. I mentioned my autism, and she told me about hers. In a few other cases, I've heard from other people who knew the person better, or the person was very forthcoming and told me. In one weird case, I noticed a woman on the train. We got off at the same station, walked to the same hospital--and waited to see the same autism specialist.

95% of the time it remains unconfirmed--but of that 5%, I've been 100% right.

I avoided the word "suspicion" because that has a negative connotation--as in that "murder" example.


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Fnord
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17 Jun 2021, 10:10 am

Benjamin the Donkey wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Ahh ... but how did you find out?

You cannot know someone is on the spectrum until your suspicion is confirmed -- you can only suspect that someone is on the spectrum until then.

Knowledge and suspicion are not the same thing.  If it was otherwise, then every person suspected of murder would be executed before even going to trial.


In the case I mentioned above, it came out in conversation. I mentioned my autism, and she told me about hers. In a few other cases, I heard from other people who knew the person better, or the person was very forthcoming and told me. 95% of the time it remains unconfirmed--but of that 5%, I've been 100% right.

I avoided the word "suspicion" because that has a negative connotation--as in that "murder" example.
Yet claiming to "know" something without confirmation is a lie.

Are you implying that it is better to remain ignorant and tell a lie, than to tell the truth and admit suspicion?


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Benjamin the Donkey
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17 Jun 2021, 10:13 am

Fnord wrote:
Benjamin the Donkey wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Ahh ... but how did you find out?

You cannot know someone is on the spectrum until your suspicion is confirmed -- you can only suspect that someone is on the spectrum until then.

Knowledge and suspicion are not the same thing.  If it was otherwise, then every person suspected of murder would be executed before even going to trial.


In the case I mentioned above, it came out in conversation. I mentioned my autism, and she told me about hers. In a few other cases, I heard from other people who knew the person better, or the person was very forthcoming and told me. 95% of the time it remains unconfirmed--but of that 5%, I've been 100% right.

I avoided the word "suspicion" because that has a negative connotation--as in that "murder" example.
Yet claiming to "know" something without confirmation is a lie.

Are you implying that it is better to remain ignorant and tell a lie, than to tell the truth and admit suspicion?


I never claimed to "know" anything. I am a rational person and don't make such statements without confirmation. Where does "lying" come in?


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Fnord
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17 Jun 2021, 10:27 am

Benjamin the Donkey wrote:
... Where does "lying" come in?
Unconfirmed suspicions are not knowledge.

Put it this way, if you were called upon to testify in court whether or not a stranger (someone you had never known before) was on the spectrum, you would be unable to truthfully say either "Yes" or "No".  The only truthful answer would be "I do not know" -- anything else would be a lie, even if it was only your subjective opinion.


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Udinaas
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17 Jun 2021, 11:12 am

I can tell if people are different but unless they're very overtly autistic I have to get to know them first to have any idea if its autism. Weird people in general seem to be attracted to me, mostly ADHD or BAPy, but some either mention being autistic or have enough signs for me to suspect it.



Brainiac42
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17 Jun 2021, 12:38 pm

Fnord wrote:
Benjamin the Donkey wrote:
... Where does "lying" come in?
Unconfirmed suspicions are not knowledge.

Put it this way, if you were called upon to testify in court whether or not a stranger (someone you had never known before) was on the spectrum, you would be unable to truthfully say either "Yes" or "No".  The only truthful answer would be "I do not know" -- anything else would be a lie, even if it was only your subjective opinion.


My post is describing a suspicion that someone may be on the spectrum, as you cannot know something with 100% certainty without proof. It is more describing the thought entering your head when you meet someone, where you can tell that they have a higher probability than others at being on the spectrum based on known characteristics. Think of it as a number of correct suspicions, over the total number guessed = “aspie-dar” accuracy. For instance I’ve guessed 4 people I’ve met may have autism/aspergers and 3 were correct after getting more information. My predictions were correct 3/4 times. I successfully could tell.. but when I first suspected I did not know for certain. That does not mean that I couldn’t tell, it means my prediction was not yet confirmed. That is the grey area you’re describing. I should have been more specific.

It would be silly to say you could accurately guess without knowing if you were accurate at all.



Fnord
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17 Jun 2021, 1:03 pm

Again, how did you confirm your suspicions?


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Double Retired
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17 Jun 2021, 1:06 pm

Brainiac42 wrote:
Can you usually tell when someone else is on the spectrum shortly after meeting them?
Sigh. It took me 64 years to wonder if I was on the Spectrum.

Uh. Actually, it wasn't until then that I had even heard of the Spectrum.

Count me as an utter, absolute, unabashedly clueless on the topic: NO.

:huh:


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Last edited by Double Retired on 17 Jun 2021, 1:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Brainiac42
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17 Jun 2021, 1:08 pm

Fnord wrote:
Again, how did you confirm your suspicions?


In my case, I was told. In two cases by the parent. In the other by the person themselves.

** Their answers were not suspicions, but formal, proven, diagnoses. **

You can dive deep into anything if you want to. You could say the psychiatrist was just giving an educated guess, so even they don’t know for sure.. making me possibly less accurate. You could create a formula removing accuracy percentages depending on the psychiatrists years in the field. Maybe the parents were lying, you could dive deep into their backgrounds.. if they’d cheated on their spouse their probability of lying is higher, therefore remove accuracy percentages.

But it isn’t that deep. I do see where you’re coming from though.



Last edited by Brainiac42 on 17 Jun 2021, 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Texasmoneyman300
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17 Jun 2021, 1:11 pm

I can sometimes.



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Earthbound_Alien
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17 Jun 2021, 1:24 pm

SORT OF



ToughDiamond
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17 Jun 2021, 1:57 pm

I'm not a diagnostician, and even they make mistakes. I hardly ever feel much certainty that this or that person is on the spectrum. Having said that, I'd be very surprised if my father wasn't on the spectrum. He certainly had a lot of the traits, and I must have got my ASD from somewhere. I also think his father was on the spectrum. I'm not quite so sure, but if I had to guess I'd say he was. I think it's possible to be fairly sure if you have plenty of time to observe their behaviour and the person has a lot of the traits pretty strongly. With milder or better-hidden cases, it's a lot more difficult to know. The borderline is rather arbitrary anyway, there's no real sharp line between ASD and NT.



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17 Jun 2021, 2:32 pm

Benjamin the Donkey wrote:
I avoided the word "suspicion" because that has a negative connotation--as in that "murder" example.

“Suspicion” should only have a negative connotation if what is being suspected is negative. It has never occurred to me to conflate suspicion of autism with suspicion of murder.

I have suspected people of being autistic based on observed traits associated with autism. But any “Aspie-dar” I have is a fraction of the super abilities often being claimed by internet armchair diagnosticians.


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HeroOfHyrule
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17 Jun 2021, 2:55 pm

Fnord wrote:
To all of you who claim to have some kind of "Aspie-Radar", how do you confirm your impressions?

I have been told people are diagnosed/suspect they have autism before, plus I'd also like to point out my use of the term "autistic traits" which implied that I don't go out of my way to "confirm" that most these people have anything beyond some traits.


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Fnord
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17 Jun 2021, 3:01 pm

So, at best, anyone with "aspiedar" can only perceive traits that may be caused by autism (among other things), and that autism may only be suspected until confirmed by the person or a close relative.

THAT makes sense.


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17 Jun 2021, 3:07 pm

I'll ask or disclose in an attempt to prompt reciprocation if I strongly believe someone is likely to have it.


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